My car horn goes off at 2:30ish this morning - need help!

[Muse]

I'm in pretty deep sleep and am becoming aware that a car horn is sounding. Actually I wasn't aware of that, what I was aware of was that someone was calling me on my landline. I'm thinking, what robocaller would call me at 2:30AM? I then hear the caller leaving me a message and it's my neighbor saying my car's horn is sounding. Then I'm aware that the horn is sounding. I pick up the phone and we chat a few seconds, 2 or 3 minutes later we are outside, I raise the hood and he ratchets the negative battery cable off. It's a residential neighborhood, 2:30AM, whew! Neither of us knew how long the horn had been sounding. He'd been sound asleep too.

He figured the horn fuse is inside the car, not under the hood. I'm not so sure. Anyway, I figured (guessed) it's the relay that's not working right. I have the Chilton manual.

Car is a 1997 Mazda 626LX 2.0 liter with less than 35k on it. I've had very little trouble with it, driven it less than 1500 miles/year generally, and less than 500 during the pandemic. I'm starting to play golf again, so will put more miles on it, maybe averaging 30 miles/week.

Other than the golf I've been driving 10-20 miles doing an every other week shopping run, centering around Costco.

I was planning to drive to a 4th of July birthday party today. Oh well, may have to miss that, depending. I figure I could go with horn disabled, but I suppose that isn't legal, don't know, but I'm a really safe careful driver and imagine I would NOT miss my horn, I almost never use it.

So, looking online: I see that it's probably either a bad horn relay or one of the two horn buttons on my steering wheel suddenly is stuck on.

I figure check the relay first. Are those just plug in units? Pull out and push in? Buy a replacement and see if that fixes the problem? I could bicycle over to O'Reilly's.

This car has airbags. Well, I guess not side airbags, but front. I have no idea if they would work. Online troubleshooting a stuck-on horn it says to be aware of potential complications because of installed airbags.

There's something else: There's a car alarm that was installed at purchase, a Crime Guard unit. They have life-time warranty. There's an on again off again issue with the alarm not working. The remote opens and locks the doors OK either way. I have called Crime Guard a few times and was told it's quite possibly a wiring problem, i.e. a bad connection. I suppose this is unrelated to the horn going off. The car alarm started working again around 3 months ago out of the blue and a few weeks later stopped working and it's been that way since.

I had a pretty good mechanic, but he retired 10+ years ago. He worked independently after a while in a nearby shop. I found another mechanic who was good, had a crew of around 4 guys, all certified in AC (my AC had stopped working). I had them fix the AC and next week had them do my 30k service, although I was maybe a couple thousand miles short of 30k at the time. The owner retired maybe 2-3 years ago. I called a recommended shop maybe 2 years ago and was told they won't work on cars as old as mine. I suppose I have to find a good mechanic who will or just sell the car. The state will give me $1500 for it to get it off the road, but fact is it passes smog exams with flying colors. It's not a polluter. Mileage not so hot at maybe 20 mph average.

Maybe pulling the horn fuse I can at least drive a day or two before fixing the problem.

A few minutes after disconnecting the battery and starting to become fairly awake, I realized that since I was planning to use the car today I should make sure the battery wasn't depleted. Multimeter said it was at 12.46v, which is probably OK, but drained a little. I put one of my chargers on the disconnected battery. It's still dark, figure to take a look to find the horn fuse after it gets light.

Moved from OT.
admin allisolm

 

[deadlyapp]

Wrong forum, but I suspect it's the alarm. Not sure why you think it is unrelated, car alarms drive the horn usually.

Personally I'd pull the fuse or relay for the horn and be done with it. The right way would be to rip out the alarm system and make sure everything is OEM or have a pro install a good alarm system.

Your car is nearly a hundred years old, it's not worth sinking any money in for a nuisance

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

My '96 Sebring did the same thing. Parked it in the garage one day, later on I heard the horn blowing. Pulled the horn relay and it quit. Left it out. Tried it a few times and figured is was in the steering column which I wasn't about to mess with due to the explosives.

No inspections here, so never needed to pursue it further.

Forgot about it when I sold it a while back.

 

[Muse]

Wrong forum, but I suspect it's the alarm. Not sure why you think it is unrelated, car alarms drive the horn usually.

Personally I'd pull the fuse or relay for the horn and be done with it. The right way would be to rip out the alarm system and make sure everything is OEM or have a pro install a good alarm system.

Your car is nearly a hundred years old, it's not worth sinking any money in for a nuisance

OK, yeah I know, Garage, but I was impatient BECAUSE I have been planning my 4th of July outing for a week and this threatens to all but scuttle it, so I figured, hey, a high percentage of the people who hit ATOT (which gets 10+ times the traffic, probably a lot more) are conversant in automobile technology and would very likely miss a Garage post.

My car alarm does not use the horn, it's one of those songbird alarms, you know, honk, squeal, arooma, bark bark bark, repeat. I don't think a horn can do that stuff. I don't know where it is, I was looking again a few days ago, prodding this and that trying to get a discontinuity to get continuous, since that's what the Crime Guard guys thought was happening.

I doubt that having the car alarm fixed would solve the horn issue but figure they would be able to handle that, so bringing it in to someone to fix the alarm is one of the things that crossed my mind this morning. I spent a couple of hours pouring over my Chilton manual and reading websites on horn won't stop issues before going back to sleep... I needed a few more hours to face the day. Thanks for posting!!!

 

[Muse]

My '96 Sebring did the same thing. Parked it in the garage one day, later on I heard the horn blowing. Pulled the horn relay and it quit. Left it out. Tried it a few times and figured is was in the steering column which I wasn't about to mess with due to the explosives.

No inspections here, so never needed to pursue it further.

Forgot about it when I sold it a while back.

I wouldn't mess with the steering column, the explosives for sure being the main reason. Also seems real complicated. Maybe isn't but I've done a bunch of car stuff but messing with the SC sounds damn intimidating.

I figure tap the battery terminal with the cable and see if the horn honks. If it does, pull the horn fuse, which I think I can find. Looks like there may be two horn fuses, the Chiltons is damn confusing. I have never messed with the fuses. Looks like there's several boxes, also more than one for relays? Relays in fuse boxes too.

 

[Muse]

I wasn't up for watching any videos on this at 5AM, but now, after a cuppa coffee (and a couple more hours sleep), I just watched this 4 minute gem... it's real good!!!

He even shows you how to get into the steering column, on air-bagged vehicles and troubleshoot and fix a stuck horn button issue.

 

[mindless1]

I wouldn't mess with the steering column, the explosives for sure being the main reason. Also seems real complicated. Maybe isn't but I've done a bunch of car stuff but messing with the SC sounds damn intimidating.

I figure tap the battery terminal with the cable and see if the horn honks. If it does, pull the horn fuse, which I think I can find. Looks like there may be two horn fuses, the Chiltons is damn confusing. I have never messed with the fuses. Looks like there's several boxes, also more than one for relays? Relays in fuse boxes too.

It's safe to work around the air bag if you simply disconnect the battery and wait a minute for the capacitor to drain.

Can you find the manual or install guide for this alarm system? I too, would wonder if it's tied into the horn and would either remove it, or redo the wiring, as the alarm system wiring was probably dodgy to begin with (and you mentioned already having problems with it) and will get worse the older it gets.

I doubt it's the relay because a relay that is off, doesn't tend to turn itself on when it fails. Either it stays off, or sticks on when deliberately triggered. If it were a solid state relay using a transistor, this is a different matter but in '97, very unlikely to be solid state rather than a normal electro-mechanical relay.

Rather than Chilton's, there may be fuse/relay box diagrams in the owners manual, or a workshop manual. '97 was a generational changeover year, so it wouldn't be surprising to see two different fuse/relay box diagrams for same functions for '97. If yours is more like a '98 than a '96, you could seek the diagram for a '98, or vice versa.

 

[Muse]

It's safe to work around the air bag if you simply disconnect the battery and wait a minute for the capacitor to drain.

Can you find the manual or install guide for this alarm system? I too, would wonder if it's tied into the horn and would either remove it, or redo the wiring, as the alarm system wiring was probably dodgy to begin with (and you mentioned already having problems with it) and will get worse the older it gets.

I doubt it's the relay because a relay that is off, doesn't tend to turn itself on when it fails. Either it stays off, or sticks on when deliberately triggered. If it were a solid state relay using a transistor, this is a different matter but in '97, very unlikely to be solid state rather than a normal electro-mechanical relay.

Rather than Chilton's, there may be fuse/relay box diagrams in the owners manual, or a workshop manual. '97 was a generational changeover year, so it wouldn't be surprising to see two different fuse/relay box diagrams for same functions for '97. If yours is more like a '98 than a '96, you could seek the diagram for a '98, or vice versa.

Ah, oddly the Chilton evidently doesn't have electrical schematics for the '97 626LX 2.0L. Has 25 or so others. The manual supposedly covers looks like 2 dozen cars or so!

Well, I touched the cable to the negative terminal of the battery and horn did not sound. Seems to be "normal" now. What you say about the relay probably working goes against my supposition, which was probably wrong. I figured to swap horn relay and hope all will be well. I will have to rethink all this, reread your post, etc. I could not find the horn fuse with the help of the Chilton or the owner's manual for the car. I will have to search the internet, maybe get ahold of the service manual for the car if I can find it.

Meantime in ~1/2 hour I will drive to the party, which is maybe 7 miles away? Have to program it into my android phone GPS app (Google) and see, have never been there... will keep my fingers crossed the horn doesn't go off. I'm sure not going to touch either of the two horn buttons on the steering wheel. I am going to take a socket set and pliers to be prepared to pull what I'm 95% sure is the horn relay or disconnect the battery if it isn't.

 

[Muse]

This search should provide me with the fuse locations:

fuse positions on 1997 mazda 626LX 2.0l - Google Suche

 

[mindless1]

If all else fails you can just unplug the horn.

 

[Muse]

If all else fails you can just unplug the horn.

Yeah, that video has that guy showing that. He said, IIRC, that most cars have two and you have to unplug both if you go that route. But he had the car up on a lift so he knew easily where it is. I could find, but would have to crawl under the car, I figure, slide on a piece of cardboard.

I went the 15 mile round trip to the party this afternoon, no noticeable issues. Fingers crossed, but something's wrong and it's apt to not be the end of it... yet.

 

[Muse]

Yeah, that video has that guy showing that. He said, IIRC, that most cars have two and you have to unplug both if you go that route. But he had the car up on a lift so he knew easily where it is. I could find, but would have to crawl under the car, I figure, slide on a piece of cardboard.

I went the 15 mile round trip to the party this afternoon, no noticeable issues. Fingers crossed, but something's wrong and it's apt to not be the end of it... yet.

It's been 11 days and I've driven the car 4-5 times, the horn has not sounded. I tapped a horn button, yes it works. I figure whatever went wrong will happen again somehow. But a thought crossed my mind. Could a bug have crawled into the relay and shorted it at 2:00AM July 4th? If so, maybe it won't happen again.

 

[mindless1]

Relays are typically sealed or some have a tiny hole in the corner with tape over it for the system integrator to choose whether it's vented. It is unlikely a bug crawled in there, I'd think more likely a spider made a conductive web on the back of the relay box contents, or some other unrelated cause.

 

[Muse]

Relays are typically sealed or some have a tiny hole in the corner with tape over it for the system integrator to choose whether it's vented. It is unlikely a bug crawled in there, I'd think more likely a spider made a conductive web on the back of the relay box contents, or some other unrelated cause.

It has not reoccurred yet. I figure there's a fair chance it won't. I wasn't so optimistic after it happened. I stashed some tools in the car so I can disconnect the battery quickly and stop the horn blaring. Maybe it was a bug (or spider, which is a sort of bug, eh?) of some kind causing a short.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The important thing to remember about any "quick fixes" to this: The car isn't legal without a working horn.

In my case, a "Mechanic from Hell" in a "Repair-shop of Horrors" damaged the connection to the steering wheel and horn buttons by doing careless work in pulling away the dashboard for ANOTHER MISTAKE he was correcting. So I put a horn switch -- a rocker switch -- on the dashboard and wired it to the horn circuit.

I may actually have this repaired later.

It's been more than four years since the Mechanic-from-Hell episode. It got to the point where the service advisor of that shop kept wanting me to bring it back for "correction", and I was already frustrated with their incompetence, that I just told them I would "fix it myself" and proliferate a devastating review for their shop. I still have fantasies about encountering the Mechanic-from Hell when nobody else can see us, and I have my Louisville Slugger in my hand.

Blood, guts and veins in mah teeth -- I wanna KILL!

 

[VirtualLarry]

Blood, guts and veins in mah teeth -- I wanna KILL!

Are you on any steroidal meds right now? Prednazone, etc?

Consider a dr's consult about your dosages.

Just saying... don't want to see you in trouble, good buddy.

Edit: Or on the cover of an Arlo Guthrie album.

 

[Torn Mind]

The important thing to remember about any "quick fixes" to this: The car isn't legal without a working horn.

In my case, a "Mechanic from Hell" in a "Repair-shop of Horrors" damaged the connection to the steering wheel and horn buttons by doing careless work in pulling away the dashboard for ANOTHER MISTAKE he was correcting. So I put a horn switch -- a rocker switch -- on the dashboard and wired it to the horn circuit.

I may actually have this repaired later.

It's been more than four years since the Mechanic-from-Hell episode. It got to the point where the service advisor of that shop kept wanting me to bring it back for "correction", and I was already frustrated with their incompetence, that I just told them I would "fix it myself" and proliferate a devastating review for their shop. I still have fantasies about encountering the Mechanic-from Hell when nobody else can see us, and I have my Louisville Slugger in my hand.

Blood, guts and veins in mah teeth -- I wanna KILL!

Louisville Slugger, slashed horn

Hell

Kill
Eminence Front
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx6Zgz0TZuA

 

[Muse]

Blood, guts and veins in mah teeth -- I wanna KILL!

Mechanic from Hell? Do you really think he fucked up your car on purpose? That WOULD be a mechanic from Hell, but I very much doubt you've met one.

 

[mindless1]

^ It depends on your philosophy about it. If someone doesn't know WTF they are doing, yet still *volunteers* to do a repair for profit, then they messed it up on purpose - purpose being take money for doing something they can't competently do.

What I really don't understand is when someone screws something up and then just leaves it like that instead of fixing their mistake. I suppose I could understand it a little if a replacement part cant' be sourced but in the case of wiring and/or connectors, something can be hacked out to make it work unless the clockspring itself was ruined.

On that note, a clockspring module with the (ribbon?) cable coming off can short out and activate the horn, but there are potential DIY fixes to secure the connector, strip some wire or insulation off the ribbon cable to slip it back into a slot edge connector or resolder or conductive epoxy it back on.

A working horn is required but it missed the intent of the requirement if it's on a switch somewhere that isn't as quickly activated in the heat of the moment, and especially if the switch is in a location that requires taking eyes off the road. Even with dash controls that I routinely use without looking, it still takes a moment to orient myself to their position if I'm simultaneously, rapidly changing direction or velocity by steering or braking to avoid a collision.

 

[Torn Mind]

Mechanic from Hell? Do you really think he fucked up your car on purpose? That WOULD be a mechanic from Hell, but I very much doubt you've met one.

If mechanic from hell still charged him for repair screwups...that's a bad sign. He didn't say if said mech did so. But given his ire...I suspect the mech still wanted money.

Doing Business makes for an environment conducive for obsolescence, including human-assisted damage.

Dashboard work can excused if one is DIY and the plastic didn't cooperate. For a pro, the most favorable excuse is that he was in a rush and was "negligent". Damaging wiring is inexcusable since sharp things or excessive force is unnecessary near it.

I have little doubt B was prey upon.

He has some of the features mechs activate their predatory behavior

1. Lack of willingness and/or ability to complain adequately. Doesn't know cars. Old and might not live for much longer. Educated but not in cars.
2. Willing to part with money over car. I think his post history on the Izuzu has countless examples of it.
3. Lack of competition to leap away from.

He's kinder than I am. I see malice while he only sees incompetence.

Many fields of business have an inherent conflict of interest. What maximizes profits is not what maximizes benefit to the consumer. Or even, profit involves maximizing the consumer's loss to the extent the consumer consents some way to such loss. Mechs, dentistry, insurance, just to name a few.

 

[Ford1st4Me]

The same thing as happening with my old 1998 Buick LeSabre. The horn would just start blowing and not turn off unless you went down and punched the steering wheel. Apparently my teenage son had punched the steering wheel hard one day when he was mad before it started happening. LOL It was so annoying. One night I was sleeping and didn't hear it right away and my neighbors called the fire department. I woke up just in time and went and punched the steering wheel and it stopped. I lifted the hood and took the fuse out. I couldn't just ride around without a horn so I took it to a mechanic. He said that it was the sensors on the steering wheel that you push when you beep the horn. Fixing it would be tricky because the airbag is on the steering where where the sensors are located. So, I decided to ride around with a horn when I was driving the car and remove the fuse when I wasn't. I ended up giving the car to my brother who ended up selling it for parts.

 

[Muse]

I still have no idea what was the cause of the problem. Running theory for me is a spider or insect crawled into something and caused a short. I keep tools in front of the back seat on the floor to facilitate disconnecting the battery. I almost never use my horn. Isn't it illegal to honk your horn unless you are alerting a driver or pedestrian of a dangerous situation?

 

[Ford1st4Me]

I still have no idea what was the cause of the problem. Running theory for me is a spider or insect crawled into something and caused a short. I keep tools in front of the back seat on the floor to facilitate disconnecting the battery. I almost never use my horn. Isn't it illegal to honk your horn unless you are alerting a driver or pedestrian of a dangerous situation?

In my case it was my son punching the steering wheel or maybe sun damage to the uposltry on the wheel. Obviously the horn was working so it wasn't the fuse. I could have paid the money for the sensors but it would have been expensive to have the airbag redone, especially on a car so old.

 

[mindless1]

The same thing as happening with my old 1998 Buick LeSabre. The horn would just start blowing... I couldn't just ride around without a horn so I took it to a mechanic. He said that it was the sensors on the steering wheel that you push when you beep the horn. Fixing it would be tricky because the airbag is on the steering where where the sensors are located. So, I decided to ride around with a horn when I was driving the car and remove the fuse when I wasn't. I ended up giving the car to my brother who ended up selling it for parts.

Huh? It's very simple to take the center module off a steering wheel and replace with a donor from a junkyard vehicle. 10 minute job. 11 minutes if you count the minute you wait after disconnecting the battery, to work around the airbag so it doesn't go off. Maybe a few minutes pre-repair to figure out if there are release clips or just screws holding it on.

If you can't separate the airbag from the horn switch on the donor vehicle so you have to buy both, that should run you about $60. If you can, maybe $10 or less for just the switch. Obviously this is parts cost to DIY, doesn't include shop labor. You need a new mechanic.

 

[Ford1st4Me]

The mechanic I took it to didn't know that and I sure didn't.