My brother's in the sandbox

[TwoBills]

Ok, here's the problem. This machine won't boot, just keeps crashing. I'm able to get into bios, but that's it. Same thing happened last year and it was repaired under warranty. Well, now it's down again, with the same symptoms, and the warranty's expired. So, I volunteered to bring it back while my brother's deployed.

We figured it was the harddrive, since that's what it was last time. Just installed a new Seagate.

-Asus (a7nb(or 8)x-la) board w/a 2800+ amd processor.
-(2) 512mb pc3200 ram. (Removed these and installed a good 256mb stick-no change).
-120g Samsung hdd - replaced last year - suspect #1, so I replaced it w/a 120g Seagate that I picked up on sale (thanks to hot deals) for $40ar.
-(2) optical drives, a floppy, and a cardreader.
-A250watt Hipro ps w/a 14amp 12volt rail. All powers check out ok w/no load.

I know the ps is light, but there's another problem. Seems that my brother lost his original recovery disc, but he had a copy that he burned. With only the monitor, MB, hdd, mouse, keyboard, and one optical connected, I can't load the os. I'm thinking it's either a bad burn or HP software won't load onto a blank, non HP, hdd. Anyway, my next step is to buy an oem copy of xp home and try that. Oh, yeah, I can't run Knoppix from cd, either.
The only other thing I can think of to try is to reseat the cpu. It was shipped cross country, last year, for repairs, so I guess that's a possibility.

Am I missing something here? Anybody have any other ideas or suggestions, before I pull the cpu and spring for the os. All feedback w/b appreciated.

 

[canadageek]

first question:
is that the original mobo? an OEM restore disc doesn'y like other mobos, they don't play nice.

second question: did it have stability issues? those can and may be caused by the psu. get something from a reputable manufacturer

if all that doesn't work, your mobo could be the culprit, but a socket A mobo should be cheap

hope it helps,
Luke

 

[TwoBills]

Yeah, it's all original, except for the Samsung hdd that was replaced last year. That I replaced w/a new Seagate.
I don't think it had stability problems, but I do have a 270w Fortron sitting here in a new case. That's worth tryin'.
So you're thinking MB? Yeah, this thing would be cheap enough to replace. Think reseating the cpu on the original MB would be worthwhile?

 

[ProviaFan]

Reseating the CPU and heatsink would be something to try after hooking up the other PSU. If you do end up needing to replace the motherboard, you could end up needing a different copy of Windows, as Canadageek has said already.

 

[TwoBills]

OK, I'll check out the ps 1st, see if that helps, and go from there. Just trying to keep the costs down. Looks like I've got a new harddrive to add to the new case I've got laying around.
I figure I'm going to need a new os anyway. Anybody know if a ps qualitifies you for xp oem purchases?

 

[xgsound]

A new hard drive will have to be partioned and formatted to be recognized.

What OS and video card? Connect only one (tested good) optical drive since two are to many for a 250W PS. Shakey 12V can destroy hard drive formatting. Try to read questionable hard drive on another machine to see whats there.

Does it boot in safe mode?

Try to use a win98 boot disk or "ultimate boot cd" to troubleshoot components. At first use "information only" utilities to access what does and does not work.


Jim

 

[TwoBills]

I set the new hdd up w/the disc that came w/it. The machine recognized it. I just can't seem to get this iffy HP system restore (xp home) disc to load (it's a burn of the lost original). I think my brother wiped the old drive when he was messing w/it.
Onboard video.
It won't boot to safe mode, just keeps resetting.
I did try to boot it off of a Knoppix cd and couldn't get it to go.
I've only got (1) optical and the hdd hooked up right now.
None of the caps on the motherboard are swollen or leaking.
I'm not sure what you're refering to with the "ultimate boot disc" or info only utilities disc. I've only built (1) pc and kept my old ME machine up and running clean (w/a lot of help from Anandtech). So I'm pretty new at this troubleshooting stuff, as far as pcs go, but I know my way around a multi-meter.
I'm going to swap out the ps now and see where I'm at.

 

[TwoBills]

Swapped the ps and I get the same thing. I really don't think it's the power supply. The 3, 5 , and 12v rails all read within 5% above the stated voltage.

I'm getting an "NTLDR is missing" which ms says happens when you install or upgrade overtop of ME or 98 that was installed w/a third party burn. This disc is a burn of the original that HP provided, and I think that's the problem. I'm going to pick up an oem copy of xp home and go from there.

 

[xgsound]

If you keep winme running you'll get this.

Ultimate boot cd is a bootable cd (something like Knoppix, but with dos) that also has many dos based utilities on it.

How does the Knoppix boot fail? Does it start to read the cd? If not change the bios to boot 1st from cd, 2nd from floppy, 3rd from hard disk

Something you can do now if your winME machine is avaliable, is make a winME boot floppy, and use it on the HP. This will only get you to a dos command line and load cd drivers, but will let you know if the cd and hard drive (if it's formatted in FAT32) work or not . The winME boot disk won't work with a NTFS disk.


Jim

 

[Nocturnal]

I'm almost certain its your mobo. Those mobos are horrible. I have one at the shop I'm working at. Same exact symptoms, it will boot into BIOS but after that everything is a goner. I tested it with another CPU/memory/PSU and still no go.

 

[TwoBills]

xsound: That ubcd includes what I was looking for over at Samsung (the old hdd) the other day. Downloaded it from Major Geeks just now and will check it out in the next couple of days. Thanks for that.
My knoppix is booting to the penguin, but stops. The cd player is working. The machine sees both the cd and the hdd in bios. Set to boot from cdright now.

Nocturnal: Yeah, canadageek said the same thing: mobo. Caps arn't expanded or leaking, but that's it for me as far as mobo troubleshooting goes. I've got a copy of xp home on the way, and have already bought a new hdd. Hah, looks like I'm building a new system by default. With this HP box I've only been able to find (1) atx board w/the dimentions and specs of this pos board. If the new os doesn't do the job, then it's mobo time. I'd like to go cheap on this, but if that's not the problem then I'm stuck w/a cheap mobo for my "new system".

Oh, well. Just waitin' for the os. Next step'll be reseating the cpu/heatsink, just for the heck of it, and shopping for a mobo. Anybody got any recommendations on a matx board?

Oh, yeah, I've also tried to load my oem copy of xp pro onto the new drive, but that didn't go either. I don't know if you can even do that, since I've got it loaded on this machine. Figured it should load and run, but that's not the case. Lookin' more and more like a mobo.

 

[xgsound]

Just a shot in the dark, but have you tried clearing the bios and load default settings? That can get corrupted and produce odd errors. Even if a mobo part is bad , maybe you can disable it. (USB, raid, lan)

If you have a working xp machine, you can slave the old drive to see what , if anything, is on there.

Good luck,


Jim

 

[TwoBills]

I'm waitin' for a new os right now. I cleared the bios w/no change. Worth a try.
Hdd didn't do it. Ps ok.
Looks like it's going to be a mobo. I'll reseat the heatsink before I buy, but I'm shoppin' for a mobo right now. Found a couple of $50 Asus's at NE that'll do the trick, but I havn't pulled the trigger yet.
Anyway, you guys have got me in the proper frame of mind for troubleshooting, and I thank you for that.
I'll update you when I get some sort of change or have it up and running.

 

[TwoBills]

OK, I've got the old 2800+ mounted on a new mobo. Got a post screen! Gonna start working my way back the other way now. Like to get the old hdd and system restore disk to work. Save my new hdd and os for something else. Maybe buy a new system restore disk from HP ($21).

When I get it all back up I think I'll switch out that psu for a Fortron/Sparkle unit. It looks good as far as voltages go, but I'm thinkin' now that the psu has probably been the source of all his problems.

Only problem now is the Biostar mobo I bought didn't come w/an I/O shield insert. Waiting for feedback from Biostar. Jeez.

Thanks for the help so far guys. I'll keeep you posted.

 

[TwoBills]

OK, here it is. The mobo was bad. Found a shield laying in a box and put this machine together. Came right up. The old hdd worked ok, so I used that. I've got a new Seagate left over for my next build. Should of spent the money on a new psu. I'm pretty sure that's the source of all the problems he's had (hdd last year and the mobo this year). Ordered a FSP psu. That should take care of it.

Found out a few things concerning HP mobos. Mainly, when you change the mobo you have to have the board "tatooed" in order for the recovery disks to work. Called the local BB and was quoted $100 to do this. Jeez. Dropped my oem copy of xp in there and all is good.

All in all my 1st troubleshooting experience worked out ok. Ended up spending $40 in the wrong direction, bought the seagate instead of the psu, but that's ok. Cheap enough lesson.

I thank all you guys. I literally wouldn't have been able to do this w/o Anandtech.

edit: Hah, looking back on this thread I see that Luke nailed it on the 1st reply and ProviaFan backed him up with a need for a new os. sgsound gave me a little 101 on boot cds and Nocturnal put a bottom line on it. Guess I was the only one that was in the dark. Thanks again, guys.