My Bathtub Water Cooling System Project for Audio System

[cheez]

Hi guyz,

Here is my HTPC center. Currently the workbench is inside the wine storage cabinet and the power supply is sitting outside on top of the cabinet.

The noise is the problem guys. The CPU is quiet, set to 800 rpm permanently. But my ATi Radeon X1950XTX video card makes a loud fan noise when playing HD videos. Also my PSU makes fan noise too. My goal is to eliminate all fan noise, so the only thing I hear is the music.

First of all, don't even bother posting if you are going to tell me to ditch my video card for a new smaller one. The video card stays.


- What's a good waterblock for my video card and Intel Core2Duo Conroe chip? I have a Asus P5B Deluxe board.

- I need a reservoir for watercooling. I am thinking about picking up one of these and place it at the end of the room.

I am going to be putting ice into it and keep the water cool / mild when running the PC. I'm gonna need long long tubes for this, probably 20~ 30 feet long a pair. I'm gonna need hose clamps. At one point I was thinking about running the hose all the way to my 2nd bathroom, to a bathtub. But all sorts of dust will get on the water and will create a lot of potential issues. :\

As for the power supply, I will have to pickup a silent, fanless PSU.


I think I'm gonna use the water pump I already got. Don't know if it will be strong enough hmm..

Anybody has ideas? comments?


cheez

 

[BrightCandle]

Watercooling falls into 3 basic categories today:
1) You buy an all in one unit as made by Corsair/whoever. They don't tend to be much quieter than air and you definitely wont be finding one for your GPU.
2) You build a custom closed loop using a pump, reservoir, radiators with fans and some waterblocks on the components. If you spec it correctly you can have a bank of 800rpm fans cooling the loop.
3) Crazy ass water cooling schemes that often don't practically work, like this one.

A few basic considerations:
a) its going to be pretty hard finding a waterblock for that aged GPU. Do you know if its reference design at all because that really matters when it comes to finding full coverage water blocks.
b) you could use a generic water block for the GPU but there is a risk something wont get cooled well enough (VRMs) and the card blows up. So full coverage blocks are a lot better.
c) Both the CPU and GPU will take a lot more power than a modern PC would.
d) A waterloop capable of cooling this is going to run to £350, that might be better spent on replacement hardware that is quiet to begin with.

I am certain I can spec you a loop that is quiet, I have watercooled a C2D in the past and I might even have a block I can sell you since I doubt anyone sells them anymore. Finding a X1950XTX block on the other hand, that is a challenge. I don't even know if anyone made them let alone if you could now buy one. This you need to research and find some for sale.

The GPU has a TDP of 125W, the CPU likely has a TDP of 65W, the combined average power output is thus 190W. You thus only need a single 240mm radiator (2x120mm) along with some gentle typhoon 1200rpm fans, with a fan controller to reduce them down to 800rpm. That will achieve sub 10C water delta temperatures and near silent fans. But I don't recommend this route, I am certain entry level replacement parts would be just as quieter, considerably faster and of similar cost.

 

[stahlhart]

Moving to Cases & Cooling...
-- stahlhart

 

[KingFatty]

Would you need an insulated reservoir?

I would think the water would not benefit from the insulation, because the water is being heated up by the computer. So although there would be some minor heating from ambient, I would think this works against you in the long run, because you want the heat to *escape* to ambient.

In other words, your computer is heating up the water. It's getting very warm. So you want the water to cool off. If you have an insulated reservoir, the heat will be trapped and kept artificially warm.

Or, maybe you can use a more reasonable approach. I don't understand your approach, because it's a good way to spend a lot of money to accomplish an odd scenario, when there are much better approaches. But perhaps you have a hobby aspect to create a very unique arrangement that is impracticable but a good conversation piece?

 

[cheez]

a) its going to be pretty hard finding a waterblock for that aged GPU. Do you know if its reference design at all because that really matters when it comes to finding full coverage water blocks.

Yes I believe it is. It's made by ATi. I didn't go through any other manufacturers that build this type of card.

b) you could use a generic water block for the GPU but there is a risk something wont get cooled well enough (VRMs) and the card blows up. So full coverage blocks are a lot better.

Wow, I didn't know that. Are those VRM's really that critical needing cooling? I won't be playing video games with it. The only thing I will do is mostly listen to music and some video playback (MPEG2 TS 1080i's/ AVI/ MKV's).

Here is a block that will work with x1950xtx. It only cools the GPU though. Is this going to be a problem?

http://www.dtekcustoms.com/d-tekfuziongfx2.aspx#.Ue7QiKy0RuA

Would you need an insulated reservoir?

I would think the water would not benefit from the insulation, because the water is being heated up by the computer. So although there would be some minor heating from ambient, I would think this works against you in the long run, because you want the heat to *escape* to ambient.

In other words, your computer is heating up the water. It's getting very warm. So you want the water to cool off. If you have an insulated reservoir, the heat will be trapped and kept artificially warm.

I think you may be very correct on this. The insulated stacker cooler (shown in pic above) will end up insulating heat... Putting ice in there will melt instantly. Not practical. I can't be putting ice every 30 minutes and that means I gotta flush out water as I go as it will fill up soon. Looks like going with a chest freezer is the way. I have used it over 10 years ago and did a fantastic job keeping my CPU to sub zero. The chest freezer has temp controller so it can be adjusted to keep the temperature up. I don't want the chips to get too cold as it will generate condensation! Huge no. Awww man I don't have money to spend on a $150~ 200 chest freezer. Too much money.

I don't understand your approach, because it's a good way to spend a lot of money to accomplish an odd scenario, when there are much better approaches. But perhaps you have a hobby aspect to create a very unique arrangement that is impracticable but a good conversation piece?

Yes I want my cooling to be unique, more bizarre. It's part of my intention and want to make it effective. And then take videos of it. But the money is the problem... :\


cheez

 

[cheez]

BrightCandle, just a thought. If I manage the GPU in my ATi card to around 10~ 15C (upto 50F) would that help not heat up the VRM's as much? The reason I'm bring this up is that based on my experience supercooling my nVidia GeForce 3 card GPU alone to -10C I was able to overclock the memory to a level that was not achievable with heatsinks and hair dryer... The GPU got so cold that my memory chips were cold to the touch. There were no artifacts playing video games.


cheez

 

[Aikouka]

Out of curiosity, why are you so adamant to keep the video card? You could easily buy a passive card if you aren't planning on gaming, and then there's no worry. Heck, you could go the route that I did for my HTPC that's in my bedroom (I'm very picky about noise in the room where I sleep) and purchase a fully-passive Streacom case. They are not cheap, but they are 100% dead silent.

 

[KingFatty]

Are you able to get a rain barrel, the things that collect rain water outside your house, usually connect to a rain spout? They can hold like 50 gallons.

So, maybe you can connect two of those in parallel, that gives you 100 gallons of water reservoir. Then, just let the water flow through your cooling system, and then drain out to water the lawn or garden etc.

So it's not a closed loop, it's an open loop. The water is never re-used, so it's not going to keep getting hotter as it circulates, so no fan and hopefully gravity fed so no pump either. You'd collect rain water for free, but not sure how rainy your area is?

It would definitely be a green approach, saying your computer is cooled by just the rain and gravity?

 

[Aikouka]

Are you able to get a rain barrel, the things that collect rain water outside your house, usually connect to a rain spout? They can hold like 50 gallons.

So, maybe you can connect two of those in parallel, that gives you 100 gallons of water reservoir. Then, just let the water flow through your cooling system, and then drain out to water the lawn or garden etc.

So it's not a closed loop, it's an open loop. The water is never re-used, so it's not going to keep getting hotter as it circulates, so no fan and hopefully gravity fed so no pump either. You'd collect rain water for free, but not sure how rainy your area is?

It would definitely be a green approach, saying your computer is cooled by just the rain and gravity?

You would need quite a bit of rain to feed a system like this as flow is typically measured in gallons per minute. Also, I doubt that water would be very pure, and you'd end up having to clean the system way too often. If he didn't have such an old video card, he could easily toss an aftermarket cooler on it, but each one that I check (mostly from Arctic Cooling) doesn't even list the XT 1900 series.

 

[smackababy]

You would need quite a bit of rain to feed a system like this as flow is typically measured in gallons per minute. Also, I doubt that water would be very pure, and you'd end up having to clean the system way too often. If he didn't have such an old video card, he could easily toss an aftermarket cooler on it, but each one that I check (mostly from Arctic Cooling) doesn't even list the XT 1900 series.

I wonder if you could have enough water that it passively cools with just a pump. I would think it would be pretty difficult for a CPU / GPU to actually heat like 100 gallons of water.

I should research that. I bet I could make a passive aquarium desk! Oh man, requirements creep!

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Why not buy a new GPU?

 

[BrightCandle]

1 watt of energy will raise 1L of waters temperature by 1C in 4186 seconds. Here you are talking about 200 watts. So even if you had a 10L barrel it would still only take about 3-4 hours before the water temperature put your computer parts in jeopardy. Running a water loop without sufficient cooling does not work.

 

[Zorander]

Put the PC case in a different room and connect to the peripherals via longer cables or wall sockets.

Good luck trying to cool that hot video card otherwise.

 

[Cerb]

You do not need or want water cooling. You need and a want a well-planned cooling system that uses a minimum number of fans, and does not use old power-hungry hardware. Without retro gaming, FI, there is no reason for your video card.

If you were to enclose it, with an intake and exhaust fan to the cabinet it will be in, FI (with ducting into a case, if you mount it inside a regular computer case, too), you could use two quiet fans, and then just have a highly-overrated PSU, like maybe a Seasonic G-series 500-600W (for a <150W PC), so it'll hardly ever even run its fan, much less run it fast.

With a new CPU, and no gaming, you should not need a video card, which would then make a NoFan CR95 cooler easy to install, depending on RAM height. Then, you'd be pretty much home free. You will end up spending about as much water cooling what you have, as just getting new components that won't need it (especially going AMD), and the new stuff with air cooling will be lower-maintenance, and lower risk.

 

[cheez]

Here is a list:

- Igloo 5.2 cu ft chest freezer - $157
- D-Tek FuZion GFX 2 Universal GPU block - $37.99
- D-Tek FuZion™ v2 CPU block - $44.99
- Eheim 1250 water pump - $77.80
- SeaSonic Platinum SS-400FL2 400w fanless PSU - $119.99
- Water hose and clamps - $15

Total: $453, that's not including tax and shipping and handling.

Damn that's too expensive. I can't be spending that much money.

You do not need or want water cooling. You need and a want a well-planned cooling system that uses a minimum number of fans, and does not use old power-hungry hardware. Without retro gaming, FI, there is no reason for your video card.

If you were to enclose it, with an intake and exhaust fan to the cabinet it will be in, FI (with ducting into a case, if you mount it inside a regular computer case, too), you could use two quiet fans, and then just have a highly-overrated PSU, like maybe a Seasonic G-series 500-600W (for a <150W PC), so it'll hardly ever even run its fan, much less run it fast.

With a new CPU, and no gaming, you should not need a video card, which would then make a NoFan CR95 cooler easy to install, depending on RAM height. Then, you'd be pretty much home free. You will end up spending about as much water cooling what you have, as just getting new components that won't need it (especially going AMD), and the new stuff with air cooling will be lower-maintenance, and lower risk.

I know you try to make logic but it doesn't really apply because I am not keeping my ATi Radeon x1950xtx video card for gaming. I don't game. The last time I gamed was 5 years ago. I am using this card purely for video playback as it provides the best PQ and synergizes best with the rest of my hardware including TV and Windows Server 2003 OS. This enables me to use a special video playback software which gives me even better video quality and playback performance. The ATi Radeon x1950xtx under control center with the old Catalyst ver. 7.x drivers the video calibration adjustments is really accurate and not overly exaggerated like the newer drivers found in new video cards. I can tune it to best accuracy with my old one. I have tried all sorts of video cards including new cards and they are a let down in every aspect. Also those new hardware don't work well as they are designed to work with the new OSes like that lame Windows 7 and such. I have tried Win 7 with new cards but the video quality isn't as good, which is why I returned every one of them and kept my Radeon X1950XTX. It's not just for gaming (can't game well anyway as today's games require better processing power and memory and utilize newer version of directX components that my card doesn't support) it's for high quality video playback and 2D desktop quality.

Due to inferior video quality and video tuning, I stay away from Windows 7, and any "new" video cards.... for now that is.

If at all possible I need to keep my card.

Oh I also have experience with Macbook computers and man their video playback quality is crap. I have very high standards. The video may look good to YOU, but not to me. It's substandard. Which is another reason why I got rid of Macbook pro...

I am starting to believe there is nothing else out there that will beat my video card in video playback.


Oh well I don't have $500 to spend on watercooling... that's just too much for me right now. I am trying to pay off my credit card.


What would happen if I just REMOVE the fan from my PSU? It's pretty loud. Will it still run?


cheez

 

[cheez]

Put the PC case in a different room and connect to the peripherals via longer cables or wall sockets.

Good luck trying to cool that hot video card otherwise.

That might be an idea. My master bedroom is located on the other side of the house. If I drill holes on the wall I can run the cables through it.

Nah..... not practical. I don't want to mess up my drywall. This is a new house.


cheez

 

[cheez]

I think I found a cheaper solution.

Just get the following:

- D-Tek FuZion GFX 2 Universal GPU block - $37.99


I have the old pump. Just get a pair of 30 ft long water tubes. Run them from entertainment center in my living room to my bath tub in 2nd bathroom. The bath tub will act as a reservoir. It will only cool the video card. How many gallons does the typical bath tub hold? If the water gets warm? Drain some water and add some more cold water.

No water cooling on the CPU as it's quiet with 800 rpm fan anyway. I can't hear a thing...

Then later get a chest freezer if I need to... or get something else that can replace bath tub reservoir as that's umm....


As for the PSU, I can replace it with a fanless later down the road...


cheez

 

[Aikouka]

I'm certainly no water cooling expert nor have as much as experience as some of the people in this sub-forum, but this emoticon is a pretty accurate depiction of my face after reading the latest developments: However, when I read that balogna about the video card, I finally remembered who you are. You're THAT GUY that tried to convince everyone in Audio/Video & Home Theater that beyond-boutique and ridiculously expensive power cables are necessary for proper sound.

 

[cheez]

I'm certainly no water cooling expert nor have as much as experience as some of the people in this sub-forum, but this emoticon is a pretty accurate depiction of my face after reading the latest developments: However, when I read that balogna about the video card, I finally remembered who you are. You're THAT GUY that tried to convince everyone in Audio/Video & Home Theater that beyond-boutique and ridiculously expensive power cables are necessary for proper sound.

What does that have anything to do with watercooling my system though? It's unrelated. You are bring up things that don't apply....


Keep on topic.


Or,, I can place a large bucket in the bathtub. Place it right below the faucet. Fill the water up. Once it gets hot enough just turn on the cold water from the faucet. Problem solved. Any ideas, comments?


cheez

 

[jaedaliu]

How are you connecting your audio system to your PC? HDMI? TOSLINK?

If it's a digital connection, just move your computer and get a long cable. If it's analog, a long cable is going to be expensive if it's properly shielded.

And don't take out the fan from the power supply unless you replace it. The fan is spinning for a reason.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Here is a list:

- Igloo 5.2 cu ft chest freezer - $157
- D-Tek FuZion GFX 2 Universal GPU block - $37.99
- D-Tek FuZion&#8482; v2 CPU block - $44.99
- Eheim 1250 water pump - $77.80
- SeaSonic Platinum SS-400FL2 400w fanless PSU - $119.99
- Water hose and clamps - $15

Total: $453, that's not including tax and shipping and handling.

Damn that's too expensive. I can't be spending that much money.




I know you try to make logic but it doesn't really apply because I am not keeping my ATi Radeon x1950xtx video card for gaming. I don't game. The last time I gamed was 5 years ago. I am using this card purely for video playback as it provides the best PQ and synergizes best with the rest of my hardware including TV and Windows Server 2003 OS. This enables me to use a special video playback software which gives me even better video quality and playback performance. The ATi Radeon x1950xtx under control center with the old Catalyst ver. 7.x drivers the video calibration adjustments is really accurate and not overly exaggerated like the newer drivers found in new video cards. I can tune it to best accuracy with my old one. I have tried all sorts of video cards including new cards and they are a let down in every aspect. Also those new hardware don't work well as they are designed to work with the new OSes like that lame Windows 7 and such. I have tried Win 7 with new cards but the video quality isn't as good, which is why I returned every one of them and kept my Radeon X1950XTX. It's not just for gaming (can't game well anyway as today's games require better processing power and memory and utilize newer version of directX components that my card doesn't support) it's for high quality video playback and 2D desktop quality.

Due to inferior video quality and video tuning, I stay away from Windows 7, and any "new" video cards.... for now that is.

If at all possible I need to keep my card.

Oh I also have experience with Macbook computers and man their video playback quality is crap. I have very high standards. The video may look good to YOU, but not to me. It's substandard. Which is another reason why I got rid of Macbook pro...

I am starting to believe there is nothing else out there that will beat my video card in video playback.


Oh well I don't have $500 to spend on watercooling... that's just too much for me right now. I am trying to pay off my credit card.


What would happen if I just REMOVE the fan from my PSU? It's pretty loud. Will it still run?


cheez

The $453 you spend will be 150% worth it. It will be an amazing conversation piece and will spearhead social development. I say that the 30FT long cable to the bathtub is absolutely the only option in this scenario, as, like you said, no other computer or Operating System will even come close to the audio fidelity of Windows 2003 software.

Go for it, and never look back. You won't regret it.

 

[Aikouka]

What does that have anything to do with watercooling my system though? It's unrelated. You are bring up things that don't apply....

You spouted off a bunch of nonsense about power cables, and now are spouting off nonsense about how this ancient graphics card is supposedly supreme at video output compared to any newer card. This thread is spawned by this supposedly excellent card that you refuse to get rid, so yeah... your past history in awkward obsessions is definitely applicable to people who might try to actually provide advice. Now, they know what they're dealing with. There's a reason that thread that I linked was closed.

Or,, I can place a large bucket in the bathtub. Place it right below the faucet. Fill the water up. Once it gets hot enough just turn on the cold water from the faucet. Problem solved. Any ideas, comments?

You aren't supposed to use tap water for water cooling. Tap water has minerals and other garbage in it that will potentially gunk up your system!

 

[BrightCandle]

The fins inside of water blocks are incredibly fine. You have to use distilled water for a water loop, you can't just run tap water through it, not unless you want to be taking it apart to clean it every month. The only practical water kit here is a custom loop based on normal parts and overspeccing the number of radiator slots and fans for the job so you can run the fans at a very low RPM and make them effectively silent. I like very quiet computers since I work with it every day, so below is the spec for a machine that can run fans at 600rpm or less and is pretty darn quiet.

bill of parts

A 480mm radiator or 2x240mm radiators with some Gentle Typhoon 800rpm fans (model number D1225C12B2AP-12). Put the fans onto a fan controller (I recommend a lampton controller but just about anything will work for these low amp fans) and run them at 600rpm or even less, you have twice the radiators you need and the gentle typhoon's have about the best static pressure you can basically get on a fan which will allow them to perform on a radiator with low RPMs than a normal fan. This will be near silent and can cool the CPU and GPU when they are under load.

You need a pump, a D5 is relatively quiet as its quite low power but will want to put it onto a sponge to absorb the vibrations and remove the last of the noise it might produce.

You need a reservoir (doesn't matter what, just something that fits), CPU block and GPU block and the pipes and barbs and clips. You may also want an additional fan, also low RPM for aiming at your GPU.

Some heatsinks for your GPU's other components.

A generic water block doesn't cool everything. So in addition to that you are going to need adhesive heat blocks for memory and other components. You will need to attach these to your graphics cards Voltage regulators and possibly any other chips that are on the card. Cooling the main core of the GPU is not enough to keep it alive, you will find that air cooler touches a lot of other components on purpose and they will likely all need cooling as well. This is why I recommend hunting hard for a full coverage block, because doing this yourself having never done watercooling before is quite likely to end up with a dead card. Neitherless you can get the job done and you will need adhesive heat sinks and in addition the low speed fan from above to blow over them, mainly to keep the VRMs cool.

 

[cheez]

How are you connecting your audio system to your PC? HDMI? TOSLINK?

The speakers are connected to the back sound PC sound card via single-ended RCA cables.

If it's a digital connection, just move your computer and get a long cable. If it's analog, a long cable is going to be expensive if it's properly shielded.

This is completely, out of question.

And don't take out the fan from the power supply unless you replace it. The fan is spinning for a reason.

Yeah probably not a good idea.


cheez

 

[cheez]

You spouted off a bunch of nonsense about power cables, and now are spouting off nonsense about how this ancient graphics card is supposedly supreme at video output compared to any newer card. This thread is spawned by this supposedly excellent card that you refuse to get rid, so yeah... your past history in awkward obsessions is definitely applicable to people who might try to actually provide advice. Now, they know what they're dealing with. There's a reason that thread that I linked was closed.

You are going OFF TOPIC again. Talking about audio cables have absolutely nothing to do with watercooling. You are trying to stir up for flame war / personal insults which is exactly what you are doing... You are trolling. If you continue with this non-sense I will have to report your post.

You aren't supposed to use tap water for water cooling. Tap water has minerals and other garbage in it that will potentially gunk up your system!

You sure can use tap water. I had used it for watercooling / phase change cooling for many years. Not a single problem with the block and pump. Several years of service and water flow is just as good as before. You did clearly admit to me that you are not experienced in watercooling which explains your panic about the use of tap water.


cheez