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My aunt had an abortion yet she is still a strong republican.

Mr Pickles

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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P&N isn't my normal hang out but I thought I would share. I'm not very close to my aunt, in fact I don't think anyone in my family is. She is still single but seems content with being single. My family is the type of family that doesn't know too much about politics or religion but when we all sit around in the living room with beers and wine we are all willing to drop a line regarding the latest news in either topic. So I definately know that a good majority of my family votes democrat while a few, such as my aunt, vote republican. She's 40 now, but over Thanksgiving I learned through other parts of my family that she had been dating someone when she was in her later 20's, accidently became pregnant, and then had an abortion.

This was kind of a shock. I feel that most of us live a life that is rarely directly affected by social political issues like this. Most of us know how we feel about a particular topic, and know how we want to be governed (or not governed) when certain situations arise. But other then a difference in taxes or something inadvertantly changing the way we live our every day lives, I think our input we give to the political arenas comes from spectators.

My point is that I would think something as detrimental as an abortion would be so gripping to someone that if they had to do it agian years later they would want their decision they made last time to be protected. I would also think that if you have something like this happen to you, you would want everyone else to be able to act in the same way you did. When things like this happen to you directly it changes your focus and the issue shifts to become a priority in your political views. At least I know that if it happened to me it would become my pivotal point.

She isn't crazy about politics, or at least there is nothing that she is strongly for or against. I would have thought that this would be a no brainer. If you heard that someone had an abortion would you not assume afterwards that they voted democrat?

Your thoughts?
 

brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
8,475
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It doesn't fucking matter if you're Democrat or Republican. Neither party has a core set of beliefs one way or the other.

Republicans only TEND to be right; Democrats only TEND to be left. To try and make something like abortion a party issue is distracting and downright ignorant. To stay in power, the Democrats and Republicans attempt to work for exactly 51% of the vote by taking cross-stances on right/left issues.. The parties are more like up and down rather than right and left.

The 'buzzword issues' typically are only distractions from MAJOR issues that most candidates ignore.. and the ones that talk about the major issues are ridiculed.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Yeah, everyone tries to make it out like the Republicans and Democrats have these polar opposite beliefs that are 100% opposed, but the real world does not work like that. There is no good reason why being against abortion and being for more welfare programs are mutually exclusive, or why someone who is for abortion would oppose increased military spending. The "party lines" are drawn as much by historical context as they are by differing philosophies. I have seen some people try to argue that someone who "picks and chooses" between both Democratic and Republican beliefs is philosophically inconsistent, but that is bull cr@p. Republican and Democrat aren't two ends of a line, they are just 2 random points in a sea of philosophies. They are no more consistent than communist, libertarian, or green parties beliefs. It is simply that the US political landscape favors a 2 party system and these are the 2 we have ended up with.
 

Mr Pickles

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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Perhaps I should have left the words republican and democrat out of this conversation. Instead, what about just focussing on the issue. Would if I said this "Don't you think that if someone exercised the right to be pro choice they would vote pro choice?"
 

Mr Pickles

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
4,104
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Originally posted by: Nitemare
Well as long as she is pro-choice, then she is not a hypocrite.
Yes by my point is that you would think that abortion would be at the top of her list in priorities, not "welfare programs" or "increased military spending"
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
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Originally posted by: MrLee
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Well as long as she is pro-choice, then she is not a hypocrite.
Yes by my point is that you would think that abortion would be at the top of her list in priorities, not "welfare programs" or "increased military spending"
Why would one think that? I still don't see how the fact she has had an abortion makes it any more likely for her to change her vote. There are hundreds of different issues out there for someone to vote on and if 99 of the issues favor her voting Republican and 1 favors her voting democrat then why would she change her vote? Thats like saying everyone who ever used marijuana should consider its legalization to be at the top of their priorities. Or saying people who went to public schools should have public education as their top priority while people who went to private schools should have abolishing state run education as a high priority. Your prioritizing of issues doesn't have to be based on whether or not that issue has ever affected you personally. I have never taken advantage of the ammendment allowing blacks to vote, or allowing women to vote as neither affects me as a white man, but I would consider it very high priority to vote against anyone wanting to deny blacks and women the right to vote even though that would not affect me. Abortion is 1 issue, it is not even a very important issue, it is what is known as a "wedge issue" meaning that in the greater scheme of things it is of minor significance but some political pundits try to way overplay its significance to chip voters off (in this case get Christians with otherwise liberal views to vote Republican).
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
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Don't try to categorize your aunt. Of course, she shouldn't try to box herself in either. People need to stop calling themselves Rs or Ds and just Americans.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: MrLee
Perhaps I should have left the words republican and democrat out of this conversation. Instead, what about just focussing on the issue. Would if I said this "Don't you think that if someone exercised the right to be pro choice they would vote pro choice?"
uhh, maybe she chooses not to be a single-issue voter...?!

ya... good for her!
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: MrLee
Perhaps I should have left the words republican and democrat out of this conversation. Instead, what about just focussing on the issue. Would if I said this "Don't you think that if someone exercised the right to be pro choice they would vote pro choice?"
uhh, maybe she chooses not to be a single-issue voter...?!

ya... good for her!
Well that's why abortion is such a hot topic, because while on the surface it appears to be one issue, it actually is several. It encompasses women's rights, human rights, the right to privacy, government involvement in individual decisions, protecting children, religious doctrine, etc. I see the debate over capital punishment as much more narrow and much closer to being a single issue in comparison.
 

Mr Pickles

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: MrLee
Perhaps I should have left the words republican and democrat out of this conversation. Instead, what about just focussing on the issue. Would if I said this "Don't you think that if someone exercised the right to be pro choice they would vote pro choice?"
uhh, maybe she chooses not to be a single-issue voter...?!

ya... good for her!
Well that's why abortion is such a hot topic, because while on the surface it appears to be one issue, it actually is several. It encompasses women's rights, human rights, the right to privacy, government involvement in individual decisions, protecting children, religious doctrine, etc. I see the debate over capital punishment as much more narrow and much closer to being a single issue in comparison.
was this a hijack attempt? thanks this has nothing to do with the topic at all.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: MrLee
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: MrLee
Perhaps I should have left the words republican and democrat out of this conversation. Instead, what about just focussing on the issue. Would if I said this "Don't you think that if someone exercised the right to be pro choice they would vote pro choice?"
uhh, maybe she chooses not to be a single-issue voter...?!

ya... good for her!
Well that's why abortion is such a hot topic, because while on the surface it appears to be one issue, it actually is several. It encompasses women's rights, human rights, the right to privacy, government involvement in individual decisions, protecting children, religious doctrine, etc. I see the debate over capital punishment as much more narrow and much closer to being a single issue in comparison.
was this a hijack attempt? thanks this has nothing to do with the topic at all.
Well it's common knowledge that "Roe" is now pro-life, so she wants to take away the choice she originally fought for. And the daughter she would have aborted if there wasn't a 9 month waiting list for abortion is pro-choice! So just because someone once felt one way on an issue doesn't mean they can't change. Similarly, as palehorse pointed out, other issues may have higher personal priority so you have to judge whether abortion is a pivotal factor in who gets your vote.

Better? :)
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,092
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Ever hear the story of the sinners who go to church to pay penance and buy forgiveness? Once ?forgiven? they go back to do it all over again, but hey, they go to church every Sunday! Attendance has nothing to do with following the Church?s philosophy of not sinning, but rather is a selfish need to clear one?s conscience.

Anyway?.

I support abortion under specific, not frivolous conditions. I also think it is something that needs to be opposed through education of moral values and not through law enforcement, and I?m a Republican. The world isn?t black and white, and neither are its people. There is no set of beliefs that define all the other beliefs you have.

Being Republican != anti-abortion, that?s just a segment of the group and only a stereotype could apply that to every last person. Hell, a person could hate Republicans, yet still be Republican because the alternative is so much worse.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
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Originally posted by: MrLee
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Well as long as she is pro-choice, then she is not a hypocrite.
Yes by my point is that you would think that abortion would be at the top of her list in priorities, not "welfare programs" or "increased military spending"
Not all republicans and democrats are walking talking automatons spouting out rhetoric, some have free thoughts and don't tow the line.


They just never run for office.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
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Harry Ried the leader of the Senate Democrats is pro-life.

Al Gore and Bill Clinton were both pro-life before the decided to go national.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
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Originally posted by: MrLee
Perhaps I should have left the words republican and democrat out of this conversation. Instead, what about just focussing on the issue. Would if I said this "Don't you think that if someone exercised the right to be pro choice they would vote pro choice?"
So what if she is pro choice and anti-immigration? Who would she vote for then? Political perceptions pushed on us by the media would have you believe that America is divided down the middle in strict ideological camps. Most of us, at least those of us with any sense, hold beliefs that span the political divide. It's just the fringe single issue voters that make all the noise, and thus capture the media attention that shapes our political perceptions. It's the result of political apathy by the middle, and laziness in the media.
 

hellokeith

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2004
1,665
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Originally posted by: MrLee
she had been dating someone when she was in her later 20's, accidently became pregnant, and then had an abortion.
I love that part.

"Hey, how did that get down in there? Eww, what's that stuff coming out. Oh noes, you mean to tell me that sex --> pregnancy?"
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
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Originally posted by: hellokeith
Originally posted by: MrLee
she had been dating someone when she was in her later 20's, accidently became pregnant, and then had an abortion.
I love that part.

"Hey, how did that get down in there? Eww, what's that stuff coming out. Oh noes, you mean to tell me that sex --> pregnancy?"
There's a reason your parents call you the "happy little accident". There is such a thing as sex without reproduction.

"Can you tell me who originally conceived of reproduction without sex?" - Biology Teacher
"Uh, your wife?" - Mathew Broderick
War Games
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,824
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Originally posted by: brxndxn
It doesn't fucking matter if you're Democrat or Republican. Neither party has a core set of beliefs one way or the other.

Republicans only TEND to be right; Democrats only TEND to be left. To try and make something like abortion a party issue is distracting and downright ignorant. To stay in power, the Democrats and Republicans attempt to work for exactly 51% of the vote by taking cross-stances on right/left issues.. The parties are more like up and down rather than right and left.

The 'buzzword issues' typically are only distractions from MAJOR issues that most candidates ignore.. and the ones that talk about the major issues are ridiculed.
QFT. It aint like it used to be.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
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Nobody supports all the core beliefs of their party unless they are brainless sheep (as many are, but still).
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,345
9,075
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Originally posted by: brxndxn
It doesn't fucking matter if you're Democrat or Republican. Neither party has a core set of beliefs one way or the other.

Republicans only TEND to be right; Democrats only TEND to be left. To try and make something like abortion a party issue is distracting and downright ignorant. To stay in power, the Democrats and Republicans attempt to work for exactly 51% of the vote by taking cross-stances on right/left issues.. The parties are more like up and down rather than right and left.

The 'buzzword issues' typically are only distractions from MAJOR issues that most candidates ignore.. and the ones that talk about the major issues are ridiculed.
Good post. I've been saying much the same thing here for years. The major parties are much more similar than they are different.
The only real differences that I have noted that TEND to hold true are: urban/rural, union/non-union, or (in government jobs) social services vs. military/law enforcement.

Generally speaking, I have found that all the other internet/extremist arguments regarding the divisions between the 2 parties tend to be complete BS. I personally know wealthy Dems and religious pro-life Dems, and I know poor Pubs and atheist pro-choice Pubs. Just like I know tough on crime moral authoritarian Dems (for example, look at Harvey here and his ultra-extreme prohibitionist stance) and I know socially liberal Pubs. Hell, I even know Republicans in favor of universal health care.

This IMO is why I seem to always run afoul of the partisan hacks on the internet. You can't take the whole country of 300 million people and black-and-white divide it into only 2 positions, one good and one evil. That's just childish and naive, if not just downright bigoted.
 

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