My adventure with Ubuntu

[Nick5324]

Cliffs at the end.

So I wanted to try out a distro of Linux, and I had a Ubuntu CD, so it was the winner.

I had a second rig with Windows XP, so I just did a fresh install, but set it up to dual boot Ubuntu. All went well, both Windows and Ubuntu worked just fine. I've poked around in Ubuntu a little bit here and there over the past week. Today I hooked up my internet connection, and was able to get it to play nice with Ubuntu with very little fuss.

On the ubuntu forums, I discovered automatix .

A google search turned up a PC World write up; the author seemed pretty happy with it (granted, the author is talking about a previous version of automatix).

I decided to give it a shot. I didn't select everything automatix had to offer. From what I can remember, I selected (from the Ubuntu forum thread) numbers 1,2,3,5,6,10,11,12,18,21,22,23,26,28,31,38,41,42,44,45. They were in a different order, but the same items seemed to be included. It took a little while, but all seemed to go well. When it finished, I checked for the new programs and to see if things that were to be updated had actually been updated. Everything that was supposed to happen... happened. Worked fine.

Being the windows user that I am, I couldn't resist a restart. I restart, select Ubuntu from the boot menu, and the splash screen comes up. It says 'loading this, doing that' and everything shows "ok". The screen goes blank for 1-2 seconds, but instead of getting the log in screen, the monitor falls asleep!!!

Automatix at one point did say that in case of a "rare failure", to run:
sudo cp /etc/x11/xorg.conf_backup_200604101205/etc/x11/xorg.conf

I restarted and selected the Ubuntu recovery console boot option, and enter the line above. It says something to the effect of "file not found".

If someone can tell me a quick and easy fix, I might try it. However, if it is even a little bit involved, I'm not going to worry about it for now. I am interested in working with Linux, but I'm not interested in another headache.

Cliffs:
1) Dual boot WinXP and Ubuntu, works fine.
2) Use automatix to download new programs/update programs
3) Everything seems in order until restart
4) Everything loads "ok" at splash screen, then monitor falls asleep

 

[scottws]

Now I'm no Unix/Linux expert, but I know some of the basics. It looks like Automatix created a backup of the xorg.conf file (which basically is what configures your display). The line they gave you is copying (the "cp" command) the backup (the original) over the new file Automatix created.

However, I think the syntax is a bit off. There has to be a space in there somewhere, like right before "/etc" after "00604101205." If that's not it, it's probably the backup filename that is causing the error.

What you could do is go to the /etc/x11 directory, do an "ls" (similar to "dir" in Windows) to identify the exact name of the backup file (might be "xorg.conf_backup_00604101205"). Then you run this command:

sudo cp /etc/x11/<the exact name of the backup file> /etc/x11/xorg.conf

Make sure that space is in there before /etc/x11/xorg.conf!

 

[kamper]

Yep, that'd probably be the solution: "sudo cp /etc/x11/xorg.conf_backup_200604101205 /etc/x11/xorg.conf"

 

[Robor]

"If someone can tell me a quick and easy fix, I might try it. However, if it is even a little bit involved, I'm not going to worry about it for now. I am interested in working with Linux, but I'm not interested in another headache."

That statement right there tells me that you're probably not going to enjoy your Ubuntu experience over the long haul. Automatix makes it about as easy as possible to get an Ubuntu system up and running. Without it you'd be doing manual installs of all those programs. Maybe not difficult but time consuming tracking them down and doing it manually.

Back to my original point though... Linux isn't Windows. It's different in many ways and there is a learning curve. You're bound to run into problems but IMO fixing the problems is the best way to learn. My IBM T42 was pretty much supported completely out of the box. After that I configured my wireless and used Automatix to install the things I wanted and was pretty much done. It was almost too easy. A few weeks later a kernel update broke my wireless and I had to do a lot of reading to get it working again. That said, I learned a lot in the process.

I've been using Ubuntu as my laptop OS for several months and I'm still very clueless to much of it. I think most new Linux users expect to be able to transfer their Windows experience to Linux but it doesn't work that way. I think we also forget how much we struggled with troubleshooting Windows before being as comfortable with it as we are now.

Good luck! 🙂

 

[thegorx]

I recently tried ubuntu and Automatix
I not real familar with linux or this Automatix but when I was watching Automatix run I thought I saw a domain with the "F" word in it which makes me think it's kind of a sketchy tool although with the warnings at the begining one could assume it's sketchy from the get go.

 

[daniel49]

Your experience isn't that unusual..I think its why a lot of people give up.
For an easier transition try PCLOS

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: thegorx
I recently tried ubuntu and Automatix
I not real familar with linux or this Automatix but when I was watching Automatix run I thought I saw a domain with the "F" word in it which makes me think it's kind of a sketchy tool although with the warnings at the begining one could assume it's sketchy from the get go.

I think Automatix creates a log of what it does so if you wanted to you could see about that 'F' word deal.

As far as sketchy stuff and Automatix, I know it installs some non-free codecs but can't remember any other 'evil' things it does. 😉

 

[drag]

automatix is a janky POS. I don't recommend anybody using it. The much better solution is just to read the FAQs and learn enough to do the same thing yourself. It's much safer, much smarter, and it's stuff you should know anyways.

What the "sudo cp /etc/x11/xorg.conf_backup_200604101205/etc/x11/xorg.conf "

Is that when it modified your GUI configuration it made a backup. Your GUI is called 'X windows', it is produced by a project orginization called 'X.org'. There is no registry or anything like that in Linux to store configurations so everything is stored in 'plain text files'.

Your X's configuration is stored in /etc/X11/xorg.conf Capitolization does matter. Automatix claims to have made a backup called something like xorg.conf_backup_200604101205 or something similar. If you go into that directory and copy the file back over the old one then restart X that should work.

Basicly you go:
ctrl-alt-F1 to get to a virtual console. Try that even if your monitor is asleep. Log in as your user there.
type:
cd /etc/X11/
then go:
ls
to display the contents of that directory. It's like the 'dir' command. It should show the backup file.
Copy the back up file over the new one by going:
sudo cp xorg.conf_backup_200604101205 xorg.conf
or whatever the file names are.

Then restart X by typing:
sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart

Hopefully that will get you back to a working state.

If not then try:
sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

And follow the prompts to reconfigure X that way.
Hopefully that works.

I don't know what all else that script did to your system. Maybe it'll be easier for you to just reinstall and learn to setup things like extra repositories and configure your X for 3d acceleration manually. It's not that difficult and you get a chance to learn how the system works.

 

[thegorx]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: thegorx
I recently tried ubuntu and Automatix
I not real familar with linux or this Automatix but when I was watching Automatix run I thought I saw a domain with the "F" word in it which makes me think it's kind of a sketchy tool although with the warnings at the begining one could assume it's sketchy from the get go.

I think Automatix creates a log of what it does so if you wanted to you could see about that 'F' word deal.

As far as sketchy stuff and Automatix, I know it installs some non-free codecs but can't remember any other 'evil' things it does. 😉

I think I looked at a log file but I been trying different things and when I looked at the log there wasn't much there either because I restored an image of before I used it or it just over-wrote the log the next time I used it. I'll give it another try just to see if I can find it

Automatix doesn't seem to have a problem installing some of these plug ins and stuff, but I just haven't been able to get my head around it, I suppose it can't be that difficult to get this stuff done manually, maybe the that answer is in the log files too. Or maybe I'll just watch it enough to understand what it's doing.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: thegorx

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: thegorx
I recently tried ubuntu and Automatix
I not real familar with linux or this Automatix but when I was watching Automatix run I thought I saw a domain with the "F" word in it which makes me think it's kind of a sketchy tool although with the warnings at the begining one could assume it's sketchy from the get go.

I think Automatix creates a log of what it does so if you wanted to you could see about that 'F' word deal.

As far as sketchy stuff and Automatix, I know it installs some non-free codecs but can't remember any other 'evil' things it does. 😉

I think I looked at a log file but I been trying different things and when I looked at the log there wasn't much there either because I restored an image of before I used it or it just over-wrote the log the next time I used it. I'll give it another try just to see if I can find it

Automatix doesn't seem to have a problem installing some of these plug ins and stuff, but I just haven't been able to get my head around it, I suppose it can't be that difficult to get this stuff done manually, maybe the that answer is in the log files too. Or maybe I'll just watch it enough to understand what it's doing.

Installing codecs and such is easy, relatively.

There are legal restrictions on what Ubuntu can and cannot do due as far as 'restricted' codecs go.

Ubuntu has all of it's software that it provides in '.deb' package format in a number of online http or ftp sites called 'repositories'. It has a number of repositories aviable. Everything on your system initially is aviable from these repos and actually you install a distribution almost entirely from these online repositories if you felt like it.

The default setup it gives you contains only software that is 'officially' supported by Ubuntu. This offers all the default stuff they install and a few extra things, but it is limited in scope.

They offer extra repositories that are not activated called 'universe' and 'multiverse'. These contain other software that is somewhat supported and is mostly ports from Debian's supported software packages to Ubuntu. By adding support for these repostitories you gain access to a lot more software.

However even then there are codecs that are not made aviable by Ubuntu on these 'extra' things. These have legally questionable content like libdvdcss packages that allow you to crack encryption on DVDs for playback and ripping. Limited support for non-linux codecs is offered through packages containing 32bit windows codecs. There are hacks in most common media players that they can support certain windows codecs out of the box.

To gain access to these 'legally gray' repositories you have to go through extra steps.


The file that usually contains your configurations for repositories in Debian or Ubuntu is called /etc/apt/sources.list

It is a plain text formatted configuration file that provides information used by your package manager to locate and update against these repositories.

The file is pretty simple and not difficult to understand. Most third party websites have a example line that you can copy and paste into this file and it usually works.

After you setup that stuff then you can update your package manager.. either through apt-get (apt-get update) or through the synaptic package management gui.

Then it's mearly a proccess of locating the packages that contain the codecs and installing them.
On my Debian box you'd go with:
apt-get install w32codecs
for instance. But the names change slightly depending on what repositories.

Only setup repositories you know you need. Sometimes while using third party repositories you can run into compatability issues. Don't try to mix and match stuff.

Details about all this, with nice pictures, and descriptions of what to do without using the command line is aviable at
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto

The restricted media formats and software is described in this web page.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats


I suggest using VLC media player if it's aviable. It has good performance and has the highest compatability with media formats in any application ANYWERE (windows and Linux, and is aviable for Windows).

For Gnome you can mess with what default application to use for different things by right clicking on a file and you can get to that stuff through that menu.

 

[JohnBernstein]

You may also be interested in Gentoo:

HOWTO: INSTALL GENTOO 2006.0, GNOME, KDE AND XFCE IN LESS THAN 180 MINUTES.

Interested in a walkthru to help you through a Gentoo Linux 2006 installation (with KDE Gnome and Xfce)? Then click here:

http://linux.coconia.net/

You get GENTOO 2006.0 and the GNOME desktop in about 15 minutes.

Interested in using NTFS-FUSE to write to WINDOWS XP/2000 partitions (NTFS formatted).

Or alternatively, using Captive to write to WINDOWS XP/2000 partitions (NTFS formatted).

There is also a page on installing Windows on a spare partition on your harddrive.

There is also instructions on HOWTO access and write to Windows XP/2000 (formatted with the NTFS) from Linux.

Access to Windows by Captive-FUSE and NTFS-FUSE are compared.

Also, has a walkthru to help you through a Gentoo Linux 2006 installation (with KDE Gnome and Xfce)?.

 

[Nick5324]

Lots of good replies, thanks to everyone who posted.

scottws, good call on the space, I did omit it. However, when I tried again with the space, I received this message: cp: cannot stat (it does say "stat") /etc/x11/blah blah blah, no such file or directory.

Despite this, I gave it a restart and loaded Ubuntu. Wouldn't you know it, fired right up, no problem! I tried 3 times before my original post.... who knows why it changed its tune.

Robor, you make a good point. My Linux experience can be measured in hours, while my windows experience can be measured in years. I agree that much of what I know of computers, software and hardware, I learned by doing, and most of that doing was a PITA at first. My frustration came from the fact that I was able to install some things, update some others, all is well, but upon restart, no errors, it just takes a nap 😉 Of course, as a Linux noob, there is a lot going on that I am clueless about. Thanks for the reply.

daniel49, I agree that early hiccups when using Linux is why a lot of people give up. Despite all the knocks on WinXP, the initial set-up is painfully easy.... it has spoiled me and I'm sure many others. This isn't to say that Linux set-up is difficult, but different, and any early problem makes us bail.

drag, thanks for the reply, lots of good info. Since it decided to be nice and start working on its own, I didn't have to go through these steps. However, the point you (and robor) make is a good one, learn how to do it yourself instead of depending on some guy's script. Even if I had a car of the future that could drive itself, it would still be a good idea if I knew how to drive it myself. Both of your posts were very informative. :beer:

 

[silverpig]

The reason why it said the file wasn't there is probably because that file that it created has a date and time in it. So the file they said for you to copy might not have had the exact same time and date stamp. You probably have a backup file, you just have to actually look at what it's called and not just copy blindly.

cd /etc/X11
ls

That'll show you what you have in the directory and you can copy whatever the backup is called to xorg.conf

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: daniel49
Your experience isn't that unusual..I think its why a lot of people give up.
For an easier transition try PCLOS

I just booted the LiveCD version of that. It defaulted to use my wireless adapter instead of my wired connection. It was trying to associate to one of the many AP's we have at work here and all of them are encrypted so I was getting nowhere. I couldn't find how to tell it to use my (faster) wired adapter over my wireless. I know there's a command to disable (down) an adapter but I couldn't remember it.

It was so slow going off the CD so I tried to install it to the spare HD I had and when I tried to partition ' / ' and 'home' it told me there were already files on the disk. This was a brand new drive - I guess they were temporary files used by the LiveCD? Anyway, it allowed me to format a 10GB root partition but when I tried to do a 20GB home partition it bombed with an error.

 

[scottws]

Originally posted by: Robor
I know there's a command to disable (down) an adapter but I couldn't remember it.

I think it is "ifconfig ethx down," where x is the number of the wireless adapter, probably 0 or 1.

 

[Nothinman]

HOWTO: INSTALL GENTOO 2006.0, GNOME, KDE AND XFCE IN LESS THAN 180 MINUTES.

Until you go to update something and then you end up watching compiler output for hours for no good reason.

Interested in using NTFS-FUSE to write to WINDOWS XP/2000 partitions (NTFS formatted).

Or alternatively, using Captive to write to WINDOWS XP/2000 partitions (NTFS formatted).

I also would not recommend using any of the NTFS.sys hacks to write to NTFS partitions in Windows. Last I heard Captive had some really bad corruption issues and the NTFS-FUSE stuff you're talking about has some serious issues. For instance, their own documentation says creating a file on an NTFS partition will only work 50% of the time and deleting files will fail ~10% of the time. Color me cautious, but that's not something I would trust on my filesystems.

I think it is "ifconfig ethx down," where x is the number of the wireless adapter, probably 0 or 1.

Use ifconfig if you just want to disable the adapter and do nothing more, use ifup/ifdown if you want the distro's scripts to run too. If in doubt, use ifup/ifdown. And the adapter name isn't always ethX, especially if it's wireless some devices show up as wifiX or wlanX so you might want to use 'ifconfig -a' to list all of the devices.

 

[Robor]

Thanks for the replies scottws & Nothinman! 😀

 

[scottws]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Originally posted by: scottws
I think it is "ifconfig ethx down," where x is the number of the wireless adapter, probably 0 or 1.

Use ifconfig if you just want to disable the adapter and do nothing more, use ifup/ifdown if you want the distro's scripts to run too. If in doubt, use ifup/ifdown. And the adapter name isn't always ethX, especially if it's wireless some devices show up as wifiX or wlanX so you might want to use 'ifconfig -a' to list all of the devices.

I was thinking that the wireless adapters showed up as something different, but all I could think of was "wethx," which I new wasn't right. Now that you mention wlanx, I remember that from messing around with ndiswrapper on Ubuntu.

I didn't know there was a distinction between "ifconfig <adapter> down" and "ifdown <adapter>."

Thanks for the correction/extra info.

 

[JohnBernstein]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
I also would not recommend using any of the NTFS.sys hacks to write to NTFS partitions in Windows. Last I heard Captive had some really bad corruption issues and the NTFS-FUSE stuff you're talking about has some serious issues. For instance, their own documentation says creating a file on an NTFS partition will only work 50% of the time and deleting files will fail ~10% of the time. Color me cautious, but that's not something I would trust on my filesystems.

We write correctly but not fully. In other words, currently you are not able to do everyhing but no way you could cause any damage to you filesystem either intentionally or accidentally.

If you are able to cause any damage in any way to your NTFS filesystem using the softwares of this project then please let us know and we will fix it.

Szakacsits Szabolcs <szaka@sienet.hu> -- Linux NTFS developer

Szakacsits is proud to say that NO ONE has reported any corruption (NTFS-FUSE) and if it is found the team will fix it.

The reason it sometimes refuses to write is theoretically to keep everything safe,... but in reality it is properly to cripple the software.

 

[Nothinman]

Even if it won't corrupt your filesystem the fact that some operations can fail up to 50% of the time would still make me not use it for anything more than testing it out. At best I would label that beta quality software and IMO that's being generous.

The reason it sometimes refuses to write is theoretically to keep everything safe,... but in reality it is properly to cripple the software.

Cripple the software for what reason?

 

[JohnBernstein]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Cripple the software for what reason?

There are many reasons, some innocent, some not.

One is, to get paid. You release the full deal on receipt of payment.

Another possible reason; is to support RedHat which is deliberately crippling Linux,.... one assumes, so that they will be able to charge for support of the missing features.

Examples of RedHat's crippling of Linux:

1) Compiling out all MP3 support.
2) Never adding available DVD support.
3) Never adding available video support.
4) Compiling out the NTFS read-only support, etc.

Another possible reason; is to support Microsoft,....

and the reasons go on and on.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: JohnBernstein

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Cripple the software for what reason?

There are many reasons, some innocent, some not.

One is, to get paid. You release the full deal on receipt of payment.

Another possible reason; is to support RedHat which is deliberately crippling Linux,.... one assumes, so that they will be able to charge for support of the missing features.

Examples of RedHat's crippling of Linux:

1) Compiling out all MP3 support.

It's Illegal in the US for Redhat to bundle MP3 support.

2) Never adding available DVD support.

It's illegal in the US for Redhat to bundle encrypted DVD support.

3) Never adding available video support.

It's a violation of the Linux kernel developer's choosen copyright license (the GPL) for Redhat to bundle support for Nvidia or ATI propriatory drivers.

4) Compiling out the NTFS read-only support, etc.

NTFS support is ****** at best. Redhat is a enterprise company and customers expect that when they buy Redhat support the software Redhat provides actually works to a high degree of reliability. No ntfs support in Linux does this. Seems Redhat would rather ship nothing at all rather then ship something that would spontaniously corrupt their customer's data and possibly violate several of Microsoft's patents.. A dangerous company which stated publicly and in leaked documents that it will use it's patents as a weapons against Linux (and Redhat) if push comes to shove.

 

[JohnBernstein]

"It's Illegal in the US for Redhat to bundle MP3 support."

HATE TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE PAL,.....

but your very first statement is crap.

Microsoft bundles MP3 support for a start.

And the rest of your statements aren't much better.

 

[magomago]

Yeah but I'm sure Microsoft pays for the royalty of bundling it...its in the cost of Windows for sure.

 

[JohnBernstein]

And the rest of your statements aren't much better,..... in fact some are far worse:

For example when talking about NTFS read-only support, you answer concerning NTFS read-write support.

"Accidentally" answering the wrong question to misdirect your audience,... a standard disinfo technique.

NTFS read-only support has been part of Linux for about 10 years. It is EXTREMELY safe.

It is the NTFS read-only support that has been taken out of Linux by Redhat, as stated above above, not the read-write support, which never got into it.

Originally posted by: magomago
Yeah but I'm sure Microsoft pays for the royalty of bundling it...its in the cost of Windows for sure.

And Redhat can't. Are you sane?