My '05 GTO wtfpwned by a...

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: zerocool84
LOL all you guys sound like EVERY other thread bashing on the srt-4 about in the end it's still a neon. Well you got beat by a neon that cost less than you. The Neon SRT-4 was about speed on the cheap. It succeeded in every way. But good job on bashing other cars that beat you. You guys sound like real car people.

Hey now. I happen to be the guy who got beat, and I did NOT bash on the guy nor the car that did it. I respect the fact that the other guy put enough money into his car to do it, and if I put an equal amount of cash into mine, I would have made him look pretty silly, too.

No matter what you're driving, there's always a faster car out there.

Of course. Put 3k into a 30k car or put 3k into a 5k car but in the end you spent more and that's what it's about.

Actually, that's NOT what it's about. Yes, he spent more on his car before mods, but he has a GTO...the kid who beat him has a Neon. All the Neon is, is fast. The GTO does just about everything else better and more comfortably.
So yeah, he spent more, but it's NOT just about who has the fastest ride. There are plenty of motorcycles you can buy for about 1500 bucks that would rape either of those cars. Big deal.
Something is always faster.

I remember back when I was about 19 or 20, I had a 76 Trans Am. Pretty fast with a well-tuned stock engine. I out-ran 2 different Ferraris....the 308's, I guess...Magnum PI cars.
One I beat with my stock engine, and one I beat (really badly) with my built engine. Raced that guy 3 times straight, he couldn't believe I was faster.
But when we parted ways, he drove home to a really nice house in a Ferrari, and I drove home to my Mom's in my old TA.
I thought I was hot shit back then after I won, but tell me...who was really the loser?

I'd say the same basic scenario applies to the OP.

 

[StepUp]

I miss my GTO.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: zerocool84
LOL all you guys sound like EVERY other thread bashing on the srt-4 about in the end it's still a neon. Well you got beat by a neon that cost less than you. The Neon SRT-4 was about speed on the cheap. It succeeded in every way. But good job on bashing other cars that beat you. You guys sound like real car people.

Hey now. I happen to be the guy who got beat, and I did NOT bash on the guy nor the car that did it. I respect the fact that the other guy put enough money into his car to do it, and if I put an equal amount of cash into mine, I would have made him look pretty silly, too.

No matter what you're driving, there's always a faster car out there.

Of course. Put 3k into a 30k car or put 3k into a 5k car but in the end you spent more and that's what it's about.

Actually, that's NOT what it's about. Yes, he spent more on his car before mods, but he has a GTO...the kid who beat him has a Neon. All the Neon is, is fast. The GTO does just about everything else better and more comfortably.
So yeah, he spent more, but it's NOT just about who has the fastest ride. There are plenty of motorcycles you can buy for about 1500 bucks that would rape either of those cars. Big deal.
Something is always faster.

I remember back when I was about 19 or 20, I had a 76 Trans Am. Pretty fast with a well-tuned stock engine. I out-ran 2 different Ferraris....the 308's, I guess...Magnum PI cars.
One I beat with my stock engine, and one I beat (really badly) with my built engine. Raced that guy 3 times straight, he couldn't believe I was faster.
But when we parted ways, he drove home to a really nice house in a Ferrari, and I drove home to my Mom's in my old TA.
I thought I was hot shit back then after I won, but tell me...who was really the loser?

I'd say the same basic scenario applies to the OP.

I would hope the GTO did everything better for the difference in price.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

Originally posted by: MetalMat
But at the end of the day it is still a NEON, no matter how fast it is.

dead right

I think they're both in poor taste. Give me a curvy black mazda mx-3 or rx-7.

SEXY. AS. HELL.

fuck, yes. is all i have to say.

The roll down windows rock!!

yep, power windows are just more things to go wrong.

I'd rather have the GTO over that whiny little four banger. that GTO is way better for cruising and getting around the town. far more comfortable for a daily driver.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: swtethan
2005 Pontiac GTO V8 w/6 Spd 4.8 13.3 (C&D Jan '05)

2004 Dodge SRT-4 5.3 13.9

Yeah, I could see that happening with mods

It doesn't change how lame a stupid FWD torque-steer box is

Who cares if it's mildly fast? It's still a daft FWD pos...

All you have to do is touch the Monaro with an aftermarket kit and it would tear massive, bleeding, gaping chunks off the the Neon (not that it doesn't already, stock vs a SRTTTTTTTXTX+ special ).

You do realize that there was a very good racing scene with Neons and similar cars?

Most of those guys would just show you how little you know about cars and do it with something lame as a Neon. the only thing I would put up against a tricked out Neon is another one or my motorcycle. Its too easy to get those things into the 350+ range and still look boring... only to have it smoke you because not only did he trick it out, unlike 90% of M series drivers he knows how to use it.

I'll take a light weight 4 banger over any 8 cylinder... a little EVO action is way more fun that seeing how silly you can look racing between stop lights

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: swtethan
2005 Pontiac GTO V8 w/6 Spd 4.8 13.3 (C&D Jan '05)

2004 Dodge SRT-4 5.3 13.9

Yeah, I could see that happening with mods

It doesn't change how lame a stupid FWD torque-steer box is

Who cares if it's mildly fast? It's still a daft FWD pos...

All you have to do is touch the Monaro with an aftermarket kit and it would tear massive, bleeding, gaping chunks off the the Neon (not that it doesn't already, stock vs a SRTTTTTTTXTX+ special ).

You do realize that there was a very good racing scene with Neons and similar cars?

Most of those guys would just show you how little you know about cars and do it with something lame as a Neon. the only thing I would put up against a tricked out Neon is another one or my motorcycle. Its too easy to get those things into the 350+ range and still look boring... only to have it smoke you because not only did he trick it out, unlike 90% of M series drivers he knows how to use it.

I'll take a light weight 4 banger over any 8 cylinder... a little EVO action is way more fun that seeing how silly you can look racing between stop lights

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying...

A tricked out Neon comes close to a stock GTO, and because of that, the driver will thrash 90% of M series drivers?

A few observations, if I may.

- You've made some astonishingly presumptuous assumptions about 'typical' riced Neon drivers (if I was a cynic, I'd say you were dating one ).

- Throw the same coin you threw at modding the Neon at the LS2, and it would eat the four banger buzz box alive.

- It's a cheap FWD econo-box. The Monaro is a big comfortable RWD that doesn't look like it was attacked with some cheap plastic and a glue gun (even if you don't like the styling, and I'm aware many North Americans don't, at least it doesn't look cheap and tacky.)

- I've never advocated street racing, and I never will. Keep it to the track.

- People race go-karts. It's also very entertaining, but it doesn't mean I'll be buying one as a daily driver, or that I even like them. Your point?

 

[imported_Truenofan]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

You do realize that there was a very good racing scene with Neons and similar cars?

Most of those guys would just show you how little you know about cars and do it with something lame as a Neon. the only thing I would put up against a tricked out Neon is another one or my motorcycle. Its too easy to get those things into the 350+ range and still look boring... only to have it smoke you because not only did he trick it out, unlike 90% of M series drivers he knows how to use it.

I'll take a light weight 4 banger over any 8 cylinder... a little EVO action is way more fun that seeing how silly you can look racing between stop lights

thats the funny thing. anything over even a half decent amount of power, and you cant launch worth crap. physics are a bitch. crx cannot keep up due to limited traction in the front on the exits of the turns. yeah it may turn faster, it doesn't have the grip. thats what happens when you compete against other cars in a different drive train with a fwd.

and for the lightweight part. you could get a crotch rocket if you were that concerned about weight. or a ariel atom thats supercharged.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: ayabe
Well the G8 is coming out as a sorta replacement and it's also a Holden car.

Edmunds pulled off a 0-60 in 5.3 and the 1/4 in 14.1.

Not too shabby.

Are you referring to the Commodore test? http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...sts/articleId=120615#3

The 0-60 time is in line, but 14.1 @ 99.1mph for a car with nearly 400hp? That's pathetic even for a non-lefty driver...

When they tested the Maloo they quote a 12 second time which is about what is expected from a car with such a power to weight ratio. I guess they just drove a bad example.

It is a heavy car. Heavier than the GTO, with a less powerful power plant, and more fuel economy oriented gear ratios (at least in the automatic - manual forthcoming).

Seems right in there to me. The V8-powered Bimmers, Mercs and Dodge's (i.e. Charger RT) don't run much better. In fact, the G8 GT is pretty comparable to the Charger RT. Only you can actually mod these motors.

Baseline: 286 RWHP
After tune, CAI and catback exhaust: 340 RWHP
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/sh...&p=833054&postcount=89

340 is about where stock LS2 dyno's, maybe a little lower. Imagine what headers and a cam could do for this car.

EDIT
NVM, headers and a cam = 410 RWHP
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=665

Yeah, the 1/4 time struck me as off as well but for $30K that's still not bad for a car with a lot of potential. I also think that was with the automatic.

Would be funny if those were 100% spot on to what the production car will put down, I think this would be the first time I could race a car that could beat me 0-60 but I win the 1/4.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: swtethan
2005 Pontiac GTO V8 w/6 Spd 4.8 13.3 (C&D Jan '05)

2004 Dodge SRT-4 5.3 13.9

Yeah, I could see that happening with mods

It doesn't change how lame a stupid FWD torque-steer box is

Who cares if it's mildly fast? It's still a daft FWD pos...

All you have to do is touch the Monaro with an aftermarket kit and it would tear massive, bleeding, gaping chunks off the the Neon (not that it doesn't already, stock vs a SRTTTTTTTXTX+ special ).

You do realize that there was a very good racing scene with Neons and similar cars?

Most of those guys would just show you how little you know about cars and do it with something lame as a Neon. the only thing I would put up against a tricked out Neon is another one or my motorcycle. Its too easy to get those things into the 350+ range and still look boring... only to have it smoke you because not only did he trick it out, unlike 90% of M series drivers he knows how to use it.

I'll take a light weight 4 banger over any 8 cylinder... a little EVO action is way more fun that seeing how silly you can look racing between stop lights

I was with you until your last statement. Why do you think an 8 cylinder is only good for stoplight racing and that they're somehow just so much heavier than a 4 cylinder? You're just showing your ignorance. Many of these 8 cylinder cars have excellent handling characteristics, and typically the weight difference between a V8 and a modern turbo 4 cylinder is negligible. For instance, the LSx V8 being talked about in this thread is very light and compact.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Would be funny if those were 100% spot on to what the production car will put down, I think this would be the first time I could race a car that could beat me 0-60 but I win the 1/4.

It probably will be pretty close. The gears are what kill it in the 1/4. The 6AT used in the G8 has a really short first gear to get it out of the hole since it is so heavy, but the upper gears are optimized for fuel econony and just choke it some.

Putting a 3.4x rear end in should make that puppy smoke.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: ayabe
Would be funny if those were 100% spot on to what the production car will put down, I think this would be the first time I could race a car that could beat me 0-60 but I win the 1/4.

It probably will be pretty close. The gears are what kill it in the 1/4. The 6AT used in the G8 has a really short first gear to get it out of the hole since it is so heavy, but the upper gears are optimized for fuel econony and just choke it some.

Putting a 3.4x rear end in should make that puppy smoke.

How's the 6 speed MT we get?

I assume you'll get it too...

 

[exdeath]

SRT4s are neat little cars.

Everyone likes to ooh and ah over million dollar super cars they will never see on the road, yet the are content driving their Taurus or Civic. Nobody ever appreciates a respectable high performance car a normal person can actually afford. The old school muscle car philosophy was affordable performance. They weren't special cars back in their day, they were just plain regular cars. Anybody with a part time job could afford a GT500, a Challenger R/T, etc. You didn't need to have a special invite to Barret Jackson with $100,000 in your pocket in order to get one, and they weren't purposely made in limited numbers just to guarantee exclusivity to elites and generate hype. You just went to your dealer and bought one with as much fuss as buying a Kia today.

Get heads, cam, a Maggie, and some Nittos, and school him twice over next time.

Or just get a Supra or 03 Cobra and change a waste gate spring or pulley and waste him that way. Like this.

How bad did he get you?

 

[Gillbot]

I test drove a SRT-4 myself, didn't fit into it very well but it was neat. I like the GTO, hate the name and price tag.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: ayabe
Would be funny if those were 100% spot on to what the production car will put down, I think this would be the first time I could race a car that could beat me 0-60 but I win the 1/4.

It probably will be pretty close. The gears are what kill it in the 1/4. The 6AT used in the G8 has a really short first gear to get it out of the hole since it is so heavy, but the upper gears are optimized for fuel econony and just choke it some.

Putting a 3.4x rear end in should make that puppy smoke.

How's the 6 speed MT we get?

I assume you'll get it too...

Not sure what gear ratios those get, but they're likely better than what it is in the 6AT - probably put the car in the high-13's depending on the rear axle ratio.

Originally posted by: exdeath
Or just get a Supra or 03 Cobra and change a waste gate spring or pulley and waste him that way.

But then he'd be driving a....Mustang :frown: :evil:

Originally posted by: Gillbot
I like the GTO, hate the name and price tag.

Yeah, it's only an extreme performance value with an interior and ride quality worlds better than an F-body or Corvette

(Sorry, I'm feeling like an asshole today) :sun:

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: exdeath
Or just get a Supra or 03 Cobra and change a waste gate spring or pulley and waste him that way.

But then he'd be driving a....Mustang :frown: :evil:

It's not a Mustang... it's a SVT Cobra :laugh:

And he'd be less likely to get embarrassed by a Neon in that 'Mustang' than a GTO *pokes with stick*

 

[AMCRambler]

For price to performance the Dodge Neon is pretty damn good. Lots of Mopar stage kits to upgrade the performance further as well. The GTO wasn't quite the same way it came to price to performance but as demand for the car drooped due to the fuel consumption, gas guzzler tax and over all styling they've become more of a bargain for those shopping used cars. For around $20,000 you can pick up a used 2005 GTO and you're getting a 400hp Vette motor in a fairly light car.
I've been considering buying a GTO for the reason that they're such a powerful car for a pretty reasonable price. The things that keep holding me back are the 18mpg city driving and the fact that it's going to be a daily driver so I'm going to have to get some snow tires for it if I expect to be able to drive to work in snow. Mad props to the Aussie's for making a real muscle car again. It may not be the best looking but there were a lot of fugly muscle cars that had some bad ass power. All the AMC AMX's and Javelin's from 72 to 74 were friggin' hideous with those humped fenders. But woe to the Camaro SS that came up against one with a 401 mill under the hood.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
LOL all you guys sound like EVERY other thread bashing on the srt-4 about in the end it's still a neon. Well you got beat by a neon that cost less than you. The Neon SRT-4 was about speed on the cheap. It succeeded in every way. But good job on bashing other cars that beat you. You guys sound like real car people.

So by your definition a car person's only goal is to win a race for less money than the other person, all other considerations are worthless. Is that right?

This guy in the SRT4 probably had a lot of extra junk on his car that he didn't need that would make his car go faster.

Back seat, don't need that, rip it out to go faster. Sound deadening material, gone. Glass in the side windows, dead weight. Passenger seat, worthless! Air Conditioning? Who cares, doesn't make you go faster. Stereo, junk. Dashboard? Interior panels of any kind? Don't need it. Exhaust system? more dead weight. Padding in the driver's seat, any seatcover, who cares, doesn't make me go faster. Hell, who needs a seat, real men drive sitting on the bare floor anyway. etc...

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: zerocool84
LOL all you guys sound like EVERY other thread bashing on the srt-4 about in the end it's still a neon. Well you got beat by a neon that cost less than you. The Neon SRT-4 was about speed on the cheap. It succeeded in every way. But good job on bashing other cars that beat you. You guys sound like real car people.

So by your definition a car person's only goal is to win a race for less money than the other person, all other considerations are worthless. Is that right?

This guy in the SRT4 probably had a lot of extra junk on his car that he didn't need that would make his car go faster.

Back seat, don't need that, rip it out to go faster. Sound deadening material, gone. Glass in the side windows, dead weight. Passenger seat, worthless! Air Conditioning? Who cares, doesn't make you go faster. Stereo, junk. Dashboard? Interior panels of any kind? Don't need it. Exhaust system? more dead weight. Padding in the driver's seat, any seatcover, who cares, doesn't make me go faster. Hell, who needs a seat, real men drive sitting on the bare floor anyway. etc...

I was stating that the Neon SRT-4 was about speed on the cheap. They could have done things to make it a 30k econobox like the evo/sti but they didn't. They made it pretty damn cheap and easy to mod. Obviously FWD sucks and they could have changed the drivetrain but the car would have cost much more. I just find it funny that some of you get intimidated by a little neon and just have to talk crap on it and say well in the end, it's still a neon. It doesn't matter if your car CAN be faster, it wasn't faster that time.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: Gillbot
I like the GTO, hate the name and price tag.

Yeah, it's only an extreme performance value with an interior and ride quality worlds better than an F-body or Corvette

(Sorry, I'm feeling like an asshole today) :sun:

I'm not arguing that it's worse than a Fbody or vette, I just don't like the name or price. I don't like the vette pricing either, hence I don't own one but for the $21k I paid for my '02 Camaro new off the showroom floor, I'm happy with that purchase.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: zerocool84
LOL all you guys sound like EVERY other thread bashing on the srt-4 about in the end it's still a neon. Well you got beat by a neon that cost less than you. The Neon SRT-4 was about speed on the cheap. It succeeded in every way. But good job on bashing other cars that beat you. You guys sound like real car people.

So by your definition a car person's only goal is to win a race for less money than the other person, all other considerations are worthless. Is that right?

This guy in the SRT4 probably had a lot of extra junk on his car that he didn't need that would make his car go faster.

Back seat, don't need that, rip it out to go faster. Sound deadening material, gone. Glass in the side windows, dead weight. Passenger seat, worthless! Air Conditioning? Who cares, doesn't make you go faster. Stereo, junk. Dashboard? Interior panels of any kind? Don't need it. Exhaust system? more dead weight. Padding in the driver's seat, any seatcover, who cares, doesn't make me go faster. Hell, who needs a seat, real men drive sitting on the bare floor anyway. etc...

I was stating that the Neon SRT-4 was about speed on the cheap. They could have done things to make it a 30k econobox like the evo/sti but they didn't. They made it pretty damn cheap and easy to mod. Obviously FWD sucks and they could have changed the drivetrain but the car would have cost much more. I just find it funny that some of you get intimidated by a little neon and just have to talk crap on it and say well in the end, it's still a neon. It doesn't matter if your car CAN be faster, it wasn't faster that time.

My point is, how far are you willing to go for cheap speed? It obviously varies for each person.

Some people would be happy driving a Neon with a gutted interior, but even for the die hard racer there comes a point where it just gets ridiculous, even on the track.

Most people are not willing to sacrifice driving a car that doesn't suck just to go a little faster. And the point where different people determine that the car sucks depends on the person.

What would you say if you lost to a turbo Yugo?

Or how about a motorcycle? Are you willing to sacrifice the extra 2 wheels and the ability to carry passengers and cargo easily?

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: exdeath
SRT4s are neat little cars.

Everyone likes to ooh and ah over million dollar super cars they will never see on the road, yet the are content driving their Taurus or Civic. Nobody ever appreciates a respectable high performance car a normal person can actually afford. The old school muscle car philosophy was affordable performance. They weren't special cars back in their day, they were just plain regular cars. Anybody with a part time job could afford a GT500, a Challenger R/T, etc. You didn't need to have a special invite to Barret Jackson with $100,000 in your pocket in order to get one, and they weren't purposely made in limited numbers just to guarantee exclusivity to elites and generate hype. You just went to your dealer and bought one with as much fuss as buying a Kia today.

Get heads, cam, a Maggie, and some Nittos, and school him twice over next time.

Or just get a Supra or 03 Cobra and change a waste gate spring or pulley and waste him that way. Like this.

How bad did he get you?

It wasn't that bad, just fast enough that it was clear that I was not going to be able to pass him on the freeway. He definitely had the edge on me. Sure, I could easily do heads/cam/intake/tune/supercharger/whatever and spank his ass, but I'm not at all sure I want to spend money on this.