Muslims press U.N. for truce in Lebanon...

[IrateLeaf]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Cease fires have been requested/cryed for everytime Israel has been kicking the (Arab) ass.

All 5 Arab-Israeli wars, the PLO extermination from Lebanon in the 80s and everytime the PLO/PA was earned a slapping in Gaza.

Of course, the cease fire is not expected to have to be honored by the Israeli opponents the day the fighting stops.

As if Israel ever stuck to a ceasefire. If during a ceasefire some Hamas guy decides to fire a rocket then all of Hamas is not sticking to it, but on Israeli side it's always 'an act of an individual' if it's broken, just like it's 'not Israeli policy' to target civilians. Yet those who do it are hardly ever punished.

Thats just rhetoric and not very substatiated rhetoric.
Israel has never started any of the wars they have fought.
In fact most of the time it has been after getting tired of turning the cheek.
Its nice to be able to disagree, but it would be nice if you could substantiate your rhetoric.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: IrateLeaf

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
I take it you are Iranian of some sort, right? Afraid of your homeland yet another violent adventure not materializing the way it expects?

Wrong on all accounts I am not related to Middle East at all and live in the USA. But seeing what Israeli war machine is doing to Lebanon, I can't support Israel's plans of today. Also it seems to me that without support from the USA government Israel and people like you would have hard time making testosterone-filled remarks you peppered this board with in last two weeks.

Yes. Also, without support from the US goverment, Europe would have been Naziland right now.
The Israeli war machine is pretty restrained at the moment.
The Middle East has always been a violent region and will continue being so, with or without Israel. The "testosterone-filled remarks" just describe the way way things are around here, not that you would know.
When you go and fight, that's essentially "testostorone-filled".

BTW, Israel did just fine with no US support up to around 1967.

Exactly!!! It was`nt until the Soviet Union was aiding Syria, jordan and iran that the US got involved.
In fact over 95% of all US aid to Israel was given after 1967.
Israel did things the old fashioned way - they kicked butt!!

Because they had to.

Also, the Truce may be because Israel is able to blockcade Lebanon from sea.
Therefore any supplies to replentish Hezbollah will have to come in by land.
The IAF can make that difficult and once shown that weapons are coming on from Syria; it can be open season then against them.

Cut off the Syrian/Iranian pipeline into Lebanon and Hezbollah becomes crippled.

 

[IrateLeaf]

I nominate this as quote of the year--

by EagleKeeper
Why is it ok to poke the tiger and then complain when you get clawed. Self responsibility.

:thumbsup:

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: IrateLeaf

Originally posted by: chcarnage

here is what will happen -
When israel is ready a truce will happen. Not before!
When the truce happen the UN peacekeeping force will occupy the land that Israel tell them too.
Why you ask will israel get to dictate what is occupied?
Simple - There will never be a truce if israel is NOT given what it wants.
Israel is 100% correct in what they are doing.
They will set up a buffer themselves and then a truce will follow and the peacekeeping force will occupy the land as a buffer.

You seem to have it all backwards again...

America will tell Israel when to go and stop *PERIOD* didn't you get the memo that bush is using Israel to fight yet another one of his wars? If America was not flying crap loads of support isral would be lost yet again....

The UN can and will force anything they want and the USA knows it. You know why? The USA is part of the UN in a big way. Do you really think a piss poor country like Israel is going to tell the UN what to do? Guess again....

But I am glad you already have these things figured out. All I can say is they are pissing off a lot of people in the middle east and one day the USA might not be able to help em out and they will bite off more then they can chew. Maybe it would be a good thing if they got over run since to me they are the ones causing all the problems over there.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: IrateLeaf

Originally posted by: chcarnage

here is what will happen -
When israel is ready a truce will happen. Not before!
When the truce happen the UN peacekeeping force will occupy the land that Israel tell them too.
Why you ask will israel get to dictate what is occupied?
Simple - There will never be a truce if israel is NOT given what it wants.
Israel is 100% correct in what they are doing.
They will set up a buffer themselves and then a truce will follow and the peacekeeping force will occupy the land as a buffer.

You seem to have it all backwards again...

America will tell Israel when to go and stop *PERIOD* didn't you get the memo that bush is using Israel to fight yet another one of his wars? If America was not flying crap loads of support isral would be lost yet again....

The UN can and will force anything they want and the USA knows it. You know why? The USA is part of the UN in a big way. Do you really think a piss poor country like Israel is going to tell the UN what to do? Guess again....

But I am glad you already have these things figured out. All I can say is they are pissing off a lot of people in the middle east and one day the USA might not be able to help em out and they will bite off more then they can chew. Maybe it would be a good thing if they got over run since to me they are the ones causing all the problems over there.

Israel is not going to trust the US to protect them. They know that the US has no leverage with the PA or Hezbollah. Therefore Israel will stop when they feel satisfied; not when someone else tells them to. Hezbollah will only stop when they are completely whipped and/or Syria clamps down


The US is acting as a counterbalance to the Russian/Chinese/Iranian support to those that want to destroy Israel. That line-up shows that Israel again is the underdog.

Israel has ignored the UN before (see all the Resolutions that the Arab countries & supporters complain about).

And the UN has not shown to be very responsive in preventing the issues that they were sent in to solve as peacekeepers.

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

The US is acting as a counterbalance to the Russian/Chinese/Iranian support to those that want to destroy Israel. That line-up shows that Israel again is the underdog.

Israel has ignored the UN before (see all the Resolutions that the Arab countries & supporters complain about).

And the UN has not shown to be very responsive in preventing the issues that they were sent in to solve as peacekeepers.

Seening what is happening in Lebanon, I am not buying the underdog statement, the casualty rate is very skewed. As far as support to those, that want to destroy Israel, it's not political, its done for cold hard cash. If Israel was not receiving any financial aid from the USA and doing whatever they please, I would not say one word.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

The US is acting as a counterbalance to the Russian/Chinese/Iranian support to those that want to destroy Israel. That line-up shows that Israel again is the underdog.

Israel has ignored the UN before (see all the Resolutions that the Arab countries & supporters complain about).

And the UN has not shown to be very responsive in preventing the issues that they were sent in to solve as peacekeepers.

Seening what is happening in Lebanon, I am not buying the underdog statement, the casualty rate is very skewed. As far as support to those, that want to destroy Israel, it's not political, its done for cold hard cash. If Israel was not receiving any financial aid from the USA and doing whatever they please, I would not say one word.

Take away Israel's aid and the aid coming in from their direct opponents and there would be no problems.

It is the meddlers that are getting the arms to their proxies.

If Israel got no aid from the US and had to stand alone against the Russina/Chinese/Iran connection; would that be considered a fair fight? that is where my underdog phrase came from.

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If Israel got no aid from the US and had to stand alone against the Russina/Chinese/Iran connection; would that be considered a fair fight? that is where my underdog phrase came from.

Russia is way past the stage where they would provide military aid for free, look at how much of a fight can Cuba, NK, etc... put up without Soviet support. Don't know about Chinese support of Hizbollah, haven't seen any info. If the Israel believes that this is all Iran's government doing, that should go for it and strike right the the root. But not on my buck, not with weaponry financed using taxes me and my friends contribute as taxes to improve our living conditions.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If Israel got no aid from the US and had to stand alone against the Russina/Chinese/Iran connection; would that be considered a fair fight? that is where my underdog phrase came from.

Russia is way past the stage where they would provide military aid for free, look at how much of a fight can Cuba, NK, etc... put up without Soviet support. Don't know about Chinese support of Hizbollah, haven't seen any info. If the Israel believes that this is all Iran's government doing, that should go for it and strike right the the root. But not on my buck, not with weaponry financed using taxes me and my friends contribute as taxes to improve our living conditions.

Hezbollag & Hamas have money sponsors. those sponsors are obtaining the weapons that are currnetly being used. Those weapons are coming from the Russina/Chinese/Iran connection.

Cut off those connections and then I would have no problem with the US withdrawing support.

Against the Arab countries alone with their technology, Israel can stand alone. they showed it multiple times.

Toss in the arms from the Communist blocs and you no longer have a fair fight. Israel becomes the underdog.

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Hezbollag & Hamas have money sponsors. those sponsors are obtaining the weapons that are currnetly being used. Those weapons are coming from the Russina/Chinese/Iran connection.

Cut off those connections and then I would have no problem with the US withdrawing support.

Against the Arab countries alone with their technology, Israel can stand alone. they showed it multiple times.

Toss in the arms from the Communist blocs and you no longer have a fair fight. Israel becomes the underdog.

I don't understand why Hezb sponsors pay for their weapons, and Israel doesn't? Why bankroll them, to the tune of 3 bln a year? I would say US should play fair field, sell the weapons to Israel, but not for the cash that was allocated by Congress as financial aid to that country.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Hezbollag & Hamas have money sponsors. those sponsors are obtaining the weapons that are currnetly being used. Those weapons are coming from the Russina/Chinese/Iran connection.

Cut off those connections and then I would have no problem with the US withdrawing support.

Against the Arab countries alone with their technology, Israel can stand alone. they showed it multiple times.

Toss in the arms from the Communist blocs and you no longer have a fair fight. Israel becomes the underdog.

I don't understand why Hezb sponsors pay for their weapons, and Israel doesn't? Why bankroll them, to the tune of 3 bln a year? I would say US should play fair field, sell the weapons to Israel, but not for the cash that was allocated by Congress as financial aid to that country.

Hez & Hamas are handed the weapons by their sponsors. Both are completely depending on foriegn aid. Weapons are funneled to Hez via Syria. Weapons are funneled to Hamas through Jordan & Egypt.

Close those pipeline and also the $$ aid to all ME countries.

Now you have a fair playing field.

However, removal of the aid will cause Hez, Hamas (as already demonstrated), Egypt, Jordan and many others to be unable to function all all or effectively.

Catch 22.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Hezbollag & Hamas have money sponsors. those sponsors are obtaining the weapons that are currnetly being used. Those weapons are coming from the Russina/Chinese/Iran connection.

Cut off those connections and then I would have no problem with the US withdrawing support.

Against the Arab countries alone with their technology, Israel can stand alone. they showed it multiple times.

Toss in the arms from the Communist blocs and you no longer have a fair fight. Israel becomes the underdog.

I don't understand why Hezb sponsors pay for their weapons, and Israel doesn't? Why bankroll them, to the tune of 3 bln a year? I would say US should play fair field, sell the weapons to Israel, but not for the cash that was allocated by Congress as financial aid to that country.

So that's a game for you, then? US should put all parties on a "fair field" and see who survives? Shouldn't the US support the only Western democractic country in this area and not Iran, for instance?

Anyway, that's just in -



Hezbollah uses Christian villages as shields in missile attacks
Catholic News Agency

Posted on 08/04/2006 8:04:22 AM PDT by NYer

Washington DC, (CNA) - Recent reports indicate that Hezbollah is using Christian villages to shield its attacks against Israel.

According to Christian Solidarity International, Hezbollah is hiding among civilian populations, mostly in southern Lebanese towns, such as Ain Ebel, Rmeish, Alma Alshaab.

Launching attacks behind human shields is in violation of the Geneva Convention's provision for the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts, which prohibits the use of civilians as military shields.

This is not a new strategy for Hezbollah. Col. Charbel Barka, a former South Lebanese Army commander, says Hezbollah is repeating what it did in attacks against Israel in 1996.

A Christian from the village of Ain Ebel, who requested to remain nameless for fear of a reprisal from Hezbollah, reported that he found Hezbollah fighters setting up a launcher on his rooftop. Hezbollah fighters ignored his pleas to stop and fired the missiles. He immediately gathered his family and fled his home, which was bombed 15 minutes later by an Israeli air strike.

Hezbollah has also attempted to stop Christians from fleeing their villages. According to Christian Solidarity International, on July 28, Hezbollah fighters fired upon several Christians fleeing Rmeish with their families, wounding two.

Sami El-Khoury, president of the World Maronite Union, adds that media reports about Christian support for Hezbollah are inaccurate.

"Contrary to Western press reports, indicating high percentages of Christian support for Hezbollah, 90 percent of Christians, 80 percent of Sunni and 40 percent of Shiites in Lebanon oppose Hezbollah," El-Khoury told Christian Solidarity International.

Christian Solidarity International has called for the United Nations to establish a politically independent commission to investigate Hezbollah's contravention of international law. The group has also urged the UN Security Council to deploy immediately an international force in Lebanon to facilitate a ceasefire, to stop the flow of arms from Syria to Hezbollah, and to assist the Lebanese government in fulfilling its obligation to disarm Hezbollah.


Are they biased as well?

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
So that's a game for you, then? US should put all parties on a "fair field" and see who survives? Shouldn't the US support the only Western democractic country in this area and not Iran, for instance?

Where did I say it's a game? Nice try on twisting my comments to antagonize the idea.
I would prefer that US would stay out of this altogether, being saying this my entire life.
US does not support Iran, so please stop posting bs, and Israel is not exactly a beacon of democracy based on history and latest events.

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
So that's a game for you, then? US should put all parties on a "fair field" and see who survives? Shouldn't the US support the only Western democractic country in this area and not Iran, for instance?

Where did I say it's a game? Nice try on twisting my comments to antagonize the idea.
I would prefer that US would stay out of this altogether, being saying this my entire life.
US does not support Iran, so please stop posting bs, and Israel is not exactly a beacon of democracy based on history and latest events.

South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan have had their problems and failings in the past too. Should we stop supporting them against China and North Korea?

 

[SamurAchzar]

US can't stay out of it completely, just like Russia and the European Union can't (or won't).
Long gone are the days where US was a continent detached from the world. They ended violently in WWII.

What happens in the ME affects you all, if by global terrorism, energy or money (lots of money in this area).
There's huge amount of American money around Israel, and it serves as a resource for a huge amount of technological companies. They ("they" being Intel, Microsoft, IBM, Motorola, etc.) are interested the wellbeing of Israel just as much as AIPAC. AFAIK, Motorola even advertised a profit warning in light of the ME events and their influence on its Israeli subsidary. Or, Haifa, one of those city that are under constant rocket fire, is the home of the entire new line of Intel processors (Pentium M, Core, etc.).
Try telling Intel, with 3 development centers and two fabs, one of which being built nowadays, that US has no business in Israel.

So it's not that simple as "we'll just pull our nose out of it and let them eat one another".

Pulling out of this conflict is, in effect, helping Iran and its likes gain the regional superpower status it desires so much. Is this in your interest? America's?

and Israel is not exactly a beacon of democracy based on history and latest events.

A democratic country defending itself, even at the price of innocent killed on the other side, is still a democratic country. I don't recall US being any less democratic during the Iraq war.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: mrCide
Not all Jews/Israelis are Zionist, are they?

How stupid is that? If you willingly live in the state of Israel, you believe that Israel is the true home of the Jewish people and that's, for you, is Zionism.
Zionism, as opposed to what's portrayed here and there, is not drinking children blood.

It's about the same as if that Iranian whacko told he will destroy all the followers of the American constitute. That's in other words, destroying the US.

Just don't be surprised when Teharan receives some "collateral damage" in a year or two.

So every citizen of the US believes Bush' policies are right, just like every Chinese citizen believes the Chinese government is correct, every Iraqi loved Saddam and every Afghani loved living under the Taliban. You do not chose where you are born, nor what kind of parents you will have. Those who live in a country do not always agree with the regime, or do you believe dissidents consist of die-hard followers of the regime that locks them up, tortures them, or kills them?

There are enough Israelis who disagree with the way the Palestinians are treated, but the current government could not care less about them.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I'm talking about the vast majority. You can - and should - differ on your political views and so on, but in order to WILLINGLY - I'm not talking about dictatorships - live in a country, it's likely that you agree with the ideals behind it. It may be just a democracy and it may be something added; For Israel, it's Zionism.
In Israel, regardless of your political views, you are most likely a Zionist.
It has nothing to do with specific goverment's policies.

If you'll study the Israel politics a little more you'll see that every goverment since '92 had the peace process at first priority. The last three goverments were all advocates for the one sided separation since peace couldn't be achieved. I'd say that's pretty good attitude towards the Palestinians.