Muslims file complaint against Catholics

[woolfe9999]

What I suspect is going on here, the muslims are hoping to force the catholic school to provide places for muslims to pray. They are probably hoping for a court battle to make a point.

From there challenges will probably be made to the school food to make sure it halal compliant.

When you hear about muslims challenging something in court, keep this term in mind "creeping sharia".

At its core, islam is more of a political movement then a religion.

I'm not actually even in this thread to address any political implications of this. I am only commenting on the legal merits of the case at hand. And I've made it clear - I do not think that under the law, the university has to supply rooms for them to pray that are free of Catholic symbols. I do think the student have a *possibly* valid discrimination claim based on not being allowed to form a student organization when other non-catholic religions are allowed to do so.

- wolf

 

[CPA]

What I suspect is going on here, the muslims are hoping to force the catholic school to provide places for muslims to pray. They are probably hoping for a court battle to make a point.

From there challenges will probably be made to the school food to make sure it halal compliant.

When you hear about muslims challenging something in court, keep this term in mind "creeping sharia".

At its core, islam is more of a political movement then a religion.

This.

Folks need to stop looking at the this case and look at the bigger picture.

 

[woolfe9999]

There was no vagueness in my original post. Simplicity maybe, but it was not vague. Who's acting like a child here?

Again, the First amendment applies to everyone. That's not to say that it protects everyone, you are misreading that one, once again. Because it protects the individual, it applies to those who have authority over that individual. This school, just jut any other, or any business, entity, etc. for that matter, is limited to what they can do to an individual under the First Amendment. However, the school in this case, since it is private, does have protection under the First Amendment. The court is not going to do anything in this case because they cannot tell the school that it must allow Muslims to worship, nor that it must have an area free of its religious symbols for Muslims to worship in.

The discrimination aspect is going to be a extremely hard case to prove. One can make the case that there isn't a Muslim group simply because they see no fit place to worship, which again, is their problem, not the school's.

No, I am not misreading what you're saying. And you're still incorrect about the First Amendment when you say, "This school, just jut any other, or any business, entity, etc. for that matter, is limited to what they can do to an individual under the First Amendment." That is absolutely 100% wrong. A private university is under no compulsion to allow free exercise of religion on its campus. A public university, however, is. The Amendments to the Constitution that we call the Bill of Rights, they impose restrictions only on the state, not on private parties or entities. Ever wonder why the AT moderators can censor your posts if they want to? It's because they are not the government. If, however, this was a government run discussion board, then your posts would be protected from censorship by the First Amendment.

Insofar as the discrimination claim for not allowing a student organization, sure, IF the school is allowing the organization to form but the students are saying they won't form one because there is no space without the symbols, then you'd be right. If, however, the university is simply saying, the Muslims students can't form an organization but the Jewish students can, then they may well have a valid discrimination claim. That BTW is the allegation being made by the plaintiff's attorney, so I don't know if that is the actual state of affairs or if he's just spinning it.

- wolf

 

[HumblePie]

I'm Atheist and I side with the school on this one. They are a private institution and not a public one. Like the boyscouts are allowed to excluse gays and impose limits with regards to membership, so can a private university.

Unlike a business that is not allowed to refuse to sell to black people because a business is open to the public. That makes it a public venue and must obey public laws. The university is not a public venue and is allow to chose membership like the boyscouts.

This is just like a Catholic Church deciding to let Muslim, or any one else for that matter, come join their church but with restrictions upon their behavior in that church. Such as being the church requires you to pray to Jesus and the Christian God. Again, they are free to chose who can join and not join and free to impose limitations upon actions to those who decide to join and they accept. It is not against the law. These idiot students and their attorney need to be bitch slapped.

 

[Texashiker]

I'm Atheist and I side with the school on this one. They are a private institution and not a public one. Like the boyscouts are allowed to excluse gays and impose limits with regards to membership, so can a private university. <snip>

These idiot students and their attorney need to be bitch slapped.

You, like a lot of people in this thread are missing the point, this is not about religion, its about islam forcing people to make exceptions for muslims.

Muslims are bringing legal challenges to just about every nation in the western world - Brittan, France, Germany, the US,,,,,.

The students were sent to that school with the intent to bring about a legal challenge.

 

[HumblePie]

You, like a lot of people in this thread are missing the point, this is not about religion, its about islam forcing people to make exceptions for muslims.

Muslims are bringing legal challenges to just about every nation in the western world - Brittan, France, Germany, the US,,,,,.

The students were sent to that school with the intent to bring about a legal challenge.

And so what? You think in the thousands of years that all religions have been around thatany and all religions have not tried at some point to use government to enforce what any given religion wants? This is just a small case of some Muslim kids trying to hopefully use a law to impose their religion upon others. Again, that is nothing new and not something that only Muslims do or have done. You don't know your history very well if you think otherwise.

My point remains that we have laws established and the Muslim kids are not going to win this suit for a good reason.

 

[Texashiker]

And so what? You think in the thousands of years that all religions have been around thatany and all religions have not tried at some point to use government to enforce what any given religion wants?

Islam is more of a political action group then a religion. One of their core beliefs, is that islam is to rule the world.

And with financial backing from places like saudi arabia, they have all the money they need.

 

[xBiffx]

No, I am not misreading what you're saying. And you're still incorrect about the First Amendment when you say, "This school, just jut any other, or any business, entity, etc. for that matter, is limited to what they can do to an individual under the First Amendment." That is absolutely 100&#37; wrong. A private university is under no compulsion to allow free exercise of religion on its campus. A public university, however, is. The Amendments to the Constitution that we call the Bill of Rights, they impose restrictions only on the state, not on private parties or entities. Ever wonder why the AT moderators can censor your posts if they want to? It's because they are not the government. If, however, this was a government run discussion board, then your posts would be protected from censorship by the First Amendment.
- wolf

This is not what I am saying. I am saying the university is not able to tell these students that they can't exercise their religion. Just because they cannot be forced to allow the exercising of religion doesn't mean that they can stop the exercising of religion. Its truly a double edged sword.

To your analogy. Sure moderators can stop my speech. I can take that speech somewhere else. This is exactly what's going on in this case. The school can't be made to allow for a place for the Muslims to worship but the Muslims still have that right to worship, they are just going to have to live with the places the school has already for that or go somewhere else.

 

[OutHouse]

why are devout Muslims attending a catholic school in the first place?

 

[gevorg]

Pot and kettle meet again!

 

[OutHouse]

Islam is more of a political action group then a religion. One of their core beliefs, is that islam is to rule the world.

And with financial backing from places like saudi arabia, they have all the money they need.

until the oil runs out then they will be back to living in tents and riding camels with a Lexus hood ornament hanging from its neck.

 

[Infohawk]

Religion shouldn't be a protected class. Unlike gender, race, ethnic or national background, it's a choice.

 

[Texashiker]

Religion shouldn't be a protected class. Unlike gender, race, ethnic or national background, it's a choice.

Islam is kinda of a choice.

If you are born into an islam family and you leave islam, your family is supposed to kill you.

If you freely join islam, and then leave, you are supposed to be put to death.

related news article - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316550,00.html

 

[child of wonder]

Grown adults fighting over whose invisible friend is better. Awesome.

The school is in the right here. Case closed.

 

[HumblePie]

Islam is more of a political action group then a religion. One of their core beliefs, is that islam is to rule the world.

And with financial backing from places like saudi arabia, they have all the money they need.

Again how is this any different any any other religion, major or not, throughout all of human history? Westboro, Muslims, Crusades, Inquisition, and others are just major media covered or historical covered events. All the same shit with a slightly different smell depending upon if you ate asparagus or broccoli. Either way it is all a steaming pile of shit in the end no matter which religion's fruit you chose to eat and shit out later.

 

[Infohawk]

Again how is this any different any any other religion, major or not, throughout all of human history?

Islam is PRESENTLY the the religion responsible for the most murder, mayhem and oppression. We live in the PRESENT. It's like a city-dweller saying that we should be just as worried about tigers as we are about cars because at some point in history tigers killed more people than cars.

 

[woolfe9999]

Religion shouldn't be a protected class. Unlike gender, race, ethnic or national background, it's a choice.

So, you think a university, employer or renter should be allowed to not hire/admit/rent to someone solely because that person is a Jew, Christian, Mormon, Muslim or atheist? Well that certainly takes us back 100 years. Back then they wouldn't let Jews into most universities and professions.

 

[Nemesis 1]

The point I see here as possibly valid is that the university apparently allows a Jewish student organization but refuses to allow a Muslim one. If that is true - this is according to the plaintiff's attorney.

Nonsense. There be a deep routed and compelling link betweeen jews/christians. but not so with muslims.

Watch this movie and remove hatred from your heart . God does not have anything to do with forced faith as muslims believe so christians really wouldn't except them in there places of learning . BUT because these are catholics and have forced religion upon billions . No self respecting Jew should be caught in their mist . Watch the movie and learn the few truths that it reveals . There is also lies in this movie but thats up to each person to discover as the fulfillment of testimony is at hand .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VP6FpIjKGA&feature=related

 

[Infohawk]

So, you think a university, employer or renter should be allowed to not hire/admit/rent to someone solely because that person is a Jew, Christian, Mormon, Muslim or atheist? Well that certainly takes us back 100 years. Back then they wouldn't let Jews into most universities and professions.

Jews are a bad example because there's a huge cultural element there. People are considered Jewish even if they are not practicing Jews. I don't really want to get into a debate about whether Jews are an ethnicity, but it is not fair game to discriminate against someone if they have a Jewish or Muslim _background_ (things you can sometimes tell from names).

Anyway, I was probably oversimplifying by saying it shouldn't be a protected class. It's not like the law is going to change on the issue anytime soon, but I would like it should be taken down a notch in terms of protection to say rational basis testing or something like that.

 

[Schadenfroh]

The private university is well within their rights not to take down religious symbols. Hell, they can even ban extracurricular organization if they chose to do so.

Religion shouldn't be a protected class. Unlike gender, race, ethnic or national background, it's a choice.

It should be protected for certain things, but private businesses / organizations should not have to bend over backwards to accommodate one's religious needs.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I linked a movie above . Here is 1 for the hopelessly lost and bound in lies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRXW17j3z8s&feature=related

 

[RampantAndroid]

The private university is well within their rights not to take down religious symbols. Hell, they can even ban extracurricular organization if they chose to do so.



It should be protected for certain things, but private businesses / organizations should not have to bend over backwards to accommodate one's religious needs.

This.

It'd be like if I went on a pr0n site and then decided to sue them, because they had nudity...did the guy not see that it was a catholic school?

Did he also spill hot coffee on his lap and sue McD's?

 

[JEDIYoda]

That First Amendment can be a real bitch.

You must find being the village idiot a bitch ??

 

[iGas]

I have to side with the school on this one. And, why the school allow the these students to pray to Allah instead of Christ?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I am an agnostic and not offended by the notion of a catholic university (or, here, literally Catholic University ). That said, many states (including my own) have human rights laws which prevent educational institutions from denying anyone "the full utilization of or benefit from" an educational institution based on their faith, and it would appear to me there is at least an argument that these Muslims have been denied that. I do not think what happened here constitutes actionable discrimination, but it's not a facially stupid claim IMO.