Muslim workers fired, over time cards and prayer time

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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
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This would make sense if they were not allowed to pray, or if the breaks were unpaid.

They are allowed to pray, they are paid for their breaks. They just needed to clock out so the breaks could be tracked. They refused, and were fired. Other Muslims working for the company clocked out, and still have their jobs.

best post in the whole thread.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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This country is supposed to be about freedom! They shouldn't be allowed to do that crap here.

Ummm....ok....

Anyway, if they wouldn't clock out as per the rules, too bad. I do find it strange that smokers don't have to clock out for their smoke breaks though. Does sound like the rules are "skewed" for a reason. Not for me to decide though.
 
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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
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Seems to contradict this:



If it's all breaks, I agree with Hertz. If not smokers, then it's likely they're targeting a behaviour they don't like. When that behaviour is religious, that typically is against the law.

I wonder how many people who support Hertz here would support a hospital firing a doctor for not performing abortions.

damn dude ware you 12 or something? jesus learn how to debate or stfu.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
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It seems the Somali Muslim drivers were taking longer than they should for their prayer breaks. I haven't seen anything to indicate that smokers were taking longer for their breaks. There is more to this story than what's in the OP's original article.

“The failure of many employees to return to work promptly after prayers had created an unmanageable, unfair work environment at the Seattle airport location,” Broome wrote. Clocking out ensured that everyone’s interests were preserved, he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...reak-dispute/2011/10/21/gIQArQTS2L_story.html
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
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My religion demands I pray 30 times a day and each time it takes 5 minutes to do so, I also need to eat food and watch TV while doing it...Damn the discrimination in the world saying I cant do that on "their" time! Wahhh.
 
Oct 16, 1999
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That article doesn't help Hertz' position. Like pretty much everything before and after that company quote. They reneged on a contract agreement, placed an ultimatum on certain workers, and fired those who didn't agree, not necessarily those taking excessive breaks.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
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That article doesn't help Hertz' position. Like pretty much everything before and after that company quote. They reneged on a contract agreement, placed an ultimatum on certain workers, and fired those who didn't agree, not necessarily those taking excessive breaks.


You mean all those comments from the union spokesman? It's going to be a they said - they said until a third party gets to the facts.


Hertz said the workers suspended last week were violating provisions of a collective bargaining agreement and a settlement with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission reached two years ago.

"The breaks were getting extended way beyond prayer time," said Rich Broome, a spokesman for Hertz Global Holdings Inc. "It's important to understand that several Muslim employees who are complying were not suspended. It's not about prayer, it's not about religion; it's about reasonable requirements."

Broome said employees are required to clock out to keep breaks within the 10-minute limit. Those who were suspended had not been doing so, he said.

He said managers spoke with each of the workers and posted the rule before the suspensions took place.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Hertz-suspends-34-Muslim-drivers-in-prayer-dispute-2207342.php


"Prayer is not as other people take it," said Ileys Omar, who has been with Hertz four years and is the union's shop steward. "It's important for us, if you take prayer away, you're taking a part of our lives ... to be honest, we feel like we're being punished for praying, for being Muslim."

I'm sure if these were christian fundies you would be defending them just as vigorously.
 
Oct 16, 1999
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You mean all those comments from the union spokesman? It's going to be a they said - they said until a third party gets to the facts.




http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Hertz-suspends-34-Muslim-drivers-in-prayer-dispute-2207342.php




I'm sure if these were christian fundies you would be defending them just as vigorously.

If they were being forced to clock out for praying on a break over threat of termination while smokers got a pass on smoke breaks you're damn right I would. Not being a fan of religious discrimination doesn't necessarily make me a fan of any particular religion or religion in particular for that matter.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
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If they were being forced to clock out for praying on a break over threat of termination while smokers got a pass on smoke breaks you're damn right I would. Not being a fan of religious discrimination doesn't necessarily make me a fan of any particular religion or religion in particular for that matter.


If the smokers were not abusing the break rules then why would you need to have a clock out policy?
 
Oct 16, 1999
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If the smokers were not abusing the break rules then why would you need to have a clock out policy?

I suppose for the same reason you apparently need a clock out policy that applies to all Muslims instead off addressing the ones specifically abusing their breaks.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
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This appears to be the EEOC complaint settlement agreement from two years ago that Hertz refers to in the articles. It addresses specific complaints that the Somoli Muslim workers had at its Sea-Tac Airport facility. Looks like Hertz was trying to accomodate them and their religious activities.


Exhibit A

Pursuant to the terms of the attached Settlement Agreement and Release (“Agreement”), The Hertz Corporation (“Hertz”) agrees to the following policy statements at its Sea-Tac Airport facility. Capitalized terms used herein are defined in the Agreement unless stated otherwise.

1. Hertz respects employees’ legitimate break times and will disturb an employee only in an emergency or when Hertz believes that the employee has either not punched out for break or has been on break for more than the allowed time, which is currently ten (10) minutes. Hertz will advise its managers to check an employee’s punch card before approaching him or her about break issues, except in an emergency.

2. Hertz will continue to address schedule change requests, including for holidays, on a first-come, first-served basis consistent with business needs. Employees who celebrate Eid-al-Fitr and/or Eid-al-Adha and work those days will be allowed to report to work up to two (2) hours late without penalty.

3. Hertz eliminated Friday shifts with a 2 p.m. start time, so that employees of the Muslim faith can attend religious services, and will continue to do so as long as it does not create an unreasonable hardship on the business operations.

4. Hertz is willing to approach the Port of Seattle to see whether the Port can provide a private place for female Muslim employees to wash, other than the restrooms.

5. Hertz management will strive to learn employees’ names and use them as much as possible in daily interaction, recognizing that the Shuttler workforce has a high degree of turnover and that employees have sometimes changed names after beginning employment. In order to assist this process, the Employees agree to wear their name badges in a visible place (i.e., outside of their outermost garment). Also, the nature of the work space (e.g., a loud and large parking garage) and the Shuttlers’ duties make it necessary for management to occasionally yell requests or commands to employees. However, Hertz will instruct its managers to use more polite terms/approach in those situations.

6. Hertz is willing, upon employee request, to translate into Somali (i) any new employment policies, or (ii) any significant changes to existing policies. Hertz may, at its option, ask a Somali employee to do the translations or may use a third-party translator.

7. Hertz is willing to instruct its managers to issue discipline to Shuttlers in as private a setting as possible, taking into consideration (i) that the work space is essentially wide open and there are some times when yelling a request or direction is unavoidable given the nature of the work, and (ii) Hertz cannot effectively prevent the employee or his/her shop steward from sharing this information publicly if they so choose.

8. Hertz agrees to schedule a refresher training session for its Sea-Tac management on its equal employment opportunity and anti-harassment policies. This session would likely be conducted, in Hertz’s sole discretion, by Hertz’s internal personnel charged with ensuring compliance with equal opportunity and other workplace laws.

9. Hertz would agree, upon the Employees’ request, to a one-time meeting at a mutually convenient time between senior members of its Sea-Tac management team and an appropriate representative from a local cultural center (of the Employees’ choosing) to discuss cultural sensitivity issues unique to Somali Muslim employees.

http://cbsseattle.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/seatttleeeoc2009.doc
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
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Working for the government is great. We get a 5 minute break every hour except for the hour(s) we use our 2 15 minute breaks.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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damn dude ware you 12 or something? jesus learn how to debate or stfu.

I acknowledge it was a poor analogy, but I should have quoted the (main) post that spawned the comment and split my post in two:

Its a private employer not the government.
If you cannot do the job within the parameters set forth by the company then you can choose to find another jobs or continue your employment under those parameters.

Some of the others I was referencing were:
If your fucked up religion is not compatible with Western society, you should leave and go somewhere else with it.
Nobody is forcing them to live in America.....
I have no issues with Muslims working and living within the rules of our society!!
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
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Ummm....ok....

Anyway, if they wouldn't clock out as per the rules, too bad. I do find it strange that smokers don't have to clock out for their smoke breaks though. Does sound like the rules are "skewed" for a reason. Not for me to decide though.

I'm a smoker and only smoke during my legally required 10 minute breaks...or lunch break.

When I worked construction, I could smoke anywhere, any time...except when I worked in the refineries...or on a couple of jobs where smoking was prohibited at all times. (I rarely lasted more than a day on those)
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
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I'm a smoker and only smoke during my legally required 10 minute breaks...or lunch break.

When I worked construction, I could smoke anywhere, any time...except when I worked in the refineries...or on a couple of jobs where smoking was prohibited at all times. (I rarely lasted more than a day on those)

Not saying that smokers do or don't break the rules, just wondering why the rule is not there for them but for praying? Shouldn't everyone clock out for breaks if that's the rule? For the record, I have known many smokers who take breaks that are much longer than allowed while smoking but I also know others that don't.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,101
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So we have the union saying they don't enforce the rules on smoke breaks and Hertz saying they enforce it on all breaks. It will be up to the NLRB and EEOC to figure this one out.

Then on Sept. 30, Hertz posted a new policy that states all rest and meal periods must be punched, including all religious observation, according to the union.

"The company unilaterally implemented this policy to clock in and out, and specifically identified prayer breaks in their policy. They have not applied the policy to people who take smoke breaks," Thompson said.

Hertz said clocking out is required for all breaks, and it is now enforcing that policy to prevent abuse.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo...slim-employees-over-prayer-breaks-2229083.php
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
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Apparently the smokers weren't the ones abusing the policy with 15-20 minute smoke breaks. Now they'll have to clock out too, because some of the Muslim workers did take too long.

Claiming it's "religious discrimination" because you're being forced to not steal time from your employer doesn't make sense to me.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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They can just skip lunch. Or they can work an extra 30 minutes. So do they work on Sunday? Lots of companies and occupations say it is wrong to work on Sunday.
 
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RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
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That kind stuff really gets my goat. When I see a mosque in America or a woman walking down the street with baggy clothes and a headscarf it makes my blood boil. This country is supposed to be about freedom! They shouldn't be allowed to do that crap here.

ROFL.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
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Aussie-bud, and he's serious... The irony of his own post flew well over his and others' heads.

Their country may not involve fellow citzens who are labelled as them.

Freedom is denying them to dress as or pray in a mosque as they choose.

A desired USA of fascist doublespeak is all too tolerable.