Muslim Speaker Tells Of Islam's Plan For Europe And America

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jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
What a tactic! Devalue the religion of the Muslims! Claim their religion is a scam! Then we won't feel so bad when we crush them.

Next, it'll be "They're not really people.". Then there is an obvious solution.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Vic
That's because the problem that people are becoming aware of is the neo-nazi ilk like you Socio.

Consider, what possible 'solution' do you have for the Islam 'problem' besides infringing on the basic 1st amendment guarantee of freedom of religion?

You, although reluctantly, just hit the nail on the head;

I think the hardest thing for most people to grasp is Islam is not like all other religions, it is not even a relegion, it is a subversive political movement.

It is one you can't fight it because it portrays itself as religion and even solicits support from unwitting governments that it aims to destroy. The religious side protects the political side and the political side protects the religious side.

If you were to read the Quran you would see that it is really 25% religion and 75% political ideology and means to spread that ideology. It in no way, shape, or forum, should be called a religion let alone fall under the protection of the 1st amendment. I think history will prove the biggest mistake the US will ever have made was classifying Islam as a religion. In fact that same mistake is already costing Europe bits and pieces every day.

I've read the Quran cover to cover twice, thank you. I even have a copy of the Asad translation in my bookcase. Along with a good deal of medieval Islamic poetry, like Rumi (who I am quite fond of). It is in fact a religion every bit as much as Christianity. I have also read the Bible several times and in different translations. At one point in my life, I found religious studies to be quite fascinating.
Your paranoid logic is like pointing to Leviticus in the Bible and then calling Judaism or Christianity a political ideology because of the Law of Moses. And let's not even get into Jesus' radical politics, eh?

And then I could point to Christianity's extensive history of authoritarian government, the Pope and the Church in Rome, the Christian monarchs in Europe (a few of which still exist), the puritan colony in Massachusetts, 'blue laws' in the United States, etc etc and OMG, I think I just blew to pieces this argument you claimed I couldn't fight.

Well you may have read it but comprehending it maybe another question altogether.

Let me see if I can put this in an easy to understand context;

Islam is the only religion in which it's prophet's primary role was not as a missionary of God, a cleric or a religious figure!

Muhammad's primary role was a head of the ?Government? similar to the role the Supreme Leader of Iran holds, only for the entire Muslim world. Muhammad was first, a leader & the head of the nation of Islam, and religious leader second. Eventually these two mixed up together to a point that the Government became part of the Religion.

All three branches of government, the judicial, the executive, & the legislative branch were always under the leadership & control of the Khalifat of Islam since the beginning of Islam. It started with Muhammad and it is still going on today as we see it in Muslim nations like Iran. Islam is not just another religion, Islam is a way of life in every aspect, Islam is a political ideology which rules the Islamic nation.

This brings us to the core of the conflict between Democracy & Islam;

The fundamental key of democracy is the separation of Church of & State. Without it, there can be no democracy and Islam clearly and overwhelming contradicts this basic rule of democracy. Therefore it cannot harmoniously coexist in a democracy at least in its current form.

This leaves two choices, either remove the political ideology from the religion and that will never happen, or remove its status as a religion because it can?t be both and called just a religion.

I think it should go before the US Supreme Court; they should study the Quran, other Islamic texts and teachings. It should be pretty clear that Islam cannot be classified as religion by our founding fathers definition because of it?s strong political ideology which directly clash with the fundamentals of democracy and which cannot be separated from the religion. Therefore would not fall under the protection of the 1st Amendment.

That may very well be the only way to slow down the Islamic machine
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
I've read the Quran cover to cover twice, thank you. I even have a copy of the Asad translation in my bookcase. Along with a good deal of medieval Islamic poetry, like Rumi (who I am quite fond of). It is in fact a religion every bit as much as Christianity. I have also read the Bible several times and in different translations. At one point in my life, I found religious studies to be quite fascinating.
Your paranoid logic is like pointing to Leviticus in the Bible and then calling Judaism or Christianity a political ideology because of the Law of Moses. And let's not even get into Jesus' radical politics, eh?

And then I could point to Christianity's extensive history of authoritarian government, the Pope and the Church in Rome, the Christian monarchs in Europe (a few of which still exist), the puritan colony in Massachusetts, 'blue laws' in the United States, etc etc and OMG, I think I just blew to pieces this argument you claimed I couldn't fight.

I think we've said it some time ago, it means fuck all what the various religious books mean and means everything in how the followers of that religion act.

I frankly havent read the Quran and have no desire to. I dont need to read the religious book to form an opinion of Islam, I need but watch how the savages act to know everything I need to know. It doesnt matter what the Quran says.

As they say, actions speak louder then words.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,235
6,338
126
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
What a tactic! Devalue the religion of the Muslims! Claim their religion is a scam! Then we won't feel so bad when we crush them.

Next, it'll be "They're not really people.". Then there is an obvious solution.

In order to see the impeccable logic of a bigot you have to wear the bigots magic bigoted lenses. "Oh please please see the horrible danger and save me." A bigot will kill his savior if his savior is a member of the bigot's target group.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Vic
I've read the Quran cover to cover twice, thank you. I even have a copy of the Asad translation in my bookcase. Along with a good deal of medieval Islamic poetry, like Rumi (who I am quite fond of). It is in fact a religion every bit as much as Christianity. I have also read the Bible several times and in different translations. At one point in my life, I found religious studies to be quite fascinating.
Your paranoid logic is like pointing to Leviticus in the Bible and then calling Judaism or Christianity a political ideology because of the Law of Moses. And let's not even get into Jesus' radical politics, eh?

And then I could point to Christianity's extensive history of authoritarian government, the Pope and the Church in Rome, the Christian monarchs in Europe (a few of which still exist), the puritan colony in Massachusetts, 'blue laws' in the United States, etc etc and OMG, I think I just blew to pieces this argument you claimed I couldn't fight.

I think we've said it some time ago, it means fuck all what the various religious books mean and means everything in how the followers of that religion act.

I frankly havent read the Quran and have no desire to. I dont need to read the religious book to form an opinion of Islam, I need but watch how the savages act to know everything I need to know. It doesnt matter what the Quran says.

As they say, actions speak louder then words.

This is why I declined to participate in this discussion.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Vic
I've read the Quran cover to cover twice, thank you. I even have a copy of the Asad translation in my bookcase. Along with a good deal of medieval Islamic poetry, like Rumi (who I am quite fond of). It is in fact a religion every bit as much as Christianity. I have also read the Bible several times and in different translations. At one point in my life, I found religious studies to be quite fascinating.
Your paranoid logic is like pointing to Leviticus in the Bible and then calling Judaism or Christianity a political ideology because of the Law of Moses. And let's not even get into Jesus' radical politics, eh?

And then I could point to Christianity's extensive history of authoritarian government, the Pope and the Church in Rome, the Christian monarchs in Europe (a few of which still exist), the puritan colony in Massachusetts, 'blue laws' in the United States, etc etc and OMG, I think I just blew to pieces this argument you claimed I couldn't fight.

I think we've said it some time ago, it means fuck all what the various religious books mean and means everything in how the followers of that religion act.

I frankly havent read the Quran and have no desire to. I dont need to read the religious book to form an opinion of Islam, I need but watch how the savages act to know everything I need to know. It doesnt matter what the Quran says.

As they say, actions speak louder then words.

Really, so ALL Muslims, or a majority of Muslims, act like "savages"?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Socio
Well you may have read it but comprehending it maybe another question altogether.

Let me see if I can put this in an easy to understand context;

Islam is the only religion in which it's prophet's primary role was not as a missionary of God, a cleric or a religious figure!
Nonsense.

Muhammad's primary role was a head of the ?Government? similar to the role the Supreme Leader of Iran holds, only for the entire Muslim world. Muhammad was first, a leader & the head of the nation of Islam and religious leader second. Eventually these two mixed up together to a point that the Government became part of the Religion.
The same can be easily said of Moses.

All three branches of government, the judicial, the executive, & the legislative branch were always under the leadership & control of the Khalifat of Islam since the beginning of Islam. It started with Muhammad and it is still going on today as we see it in Muslim nations like Iran. Islam is not just another religion, Islam is a way of life in every aspect, Islam is a political ideology which rules the Islamic nation.
The same can be said of Europe and Christianity up until WWI. I already discussed in this thread.

This brings us to the core of the conflict between Democracy & Islam;

The fundamental key of democracy is the separation of Church of & State. Without it, there can be no democracy and Islam clearly and overwhelming contradicts this basic rule of democracy. Therefore it cannot harmoniously exist in a democracy at least in its current form.
You're confusing "democracy" with liberalism, but I'm not surprised by that because you don't know what liberalism actually is. As it is though, you are simply wrong, as evidenced by Christianity and its long and ONGOING attempts to subjugate the separation of church and state in the US. Thankfully, due to Jefferson's foresight, they have never been successful, but they continue to try.

This leaves two choices, either remove the political ideology from the religion and that will never happen, or remove its status as a religion because it can?t be both and called just a religion.
Either way would a violation of the 1st amendment, which protects the freedom of both religious AND political ideologies. Note that there are both communist and nazi parties in the US, for example.

I think it should go before the US Supreme Court; they should study the Quran, other Islamic texts and teachings. It should be pretty clear that Islam cannot be classified as religion by definition because of it?s strong political ideology which directly clashes with the fundamentals of democracy and which cannot be separated from the religion. Therefore would not fall under the protection of the 1st Amendment.

That may very well be the only way to slow down the Islamic machine
Once again, you are wrong. First, Islam fits every possible definition of a religion, so being labeled a political ideology by the SCOTUS would be extremely unlikely. Second, Islam itself is so broad, diverse, and splintered that there would be no single entity for them to rule against. And finally, political ideology is also protected by the 1st amendment, so your argument is utterly with merit to begin with.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I need to know, are you for real? Because I have a hard time believing it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
What a tactic! Devalue the religion of the Muslims! Claim their religion is a scam! Then we won't feel so bad when we crush them.

Next, it'll be "They're not really people.". Then there is an obvious solution.

In order to see the impeccable logic of a bigot you have to wear the bigots magic bigoted lenses. "Oh please please see the horrible danger and save me." A bigot will kill his savior if his savior is a member of the bigot's target group.

Well, it's only obvious that outlawing all political free expression is next on the list of their agenda of making America into a one-religion, one-party state.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Vic
I've read the Quran cover to cover twice, thank you. I even have a copy of the Asad translation in my bookcase. Along with a good deal of medieval Islamic poetry, like Rumi (who I am quite fond of). It is in fact a religion every bit as much as Christianity. I have also read the Bible several times and in different translations. At one point in my life, I found religious studies to be quite fascinating.
Your paranoid logic is like pointing to Leviticus in the Bible and then calling Judaism or Christianity a political ideology because of the Law of Moses. And let's not even get into Jesus' radical politics, eh?

And then I could point to Christianity's extensive history of authoritarian government, the Pope and the Church in Rome, the Christian monarchs in Europe (a few of which still exist), the puritan colony in Massachusetts, 'blue laws' in the United States, etc etc and OMG, I think I just blew to pieces this argument you claimed I couldn't fight.

I think we've said it some time ago, it means fuck all what the various religious books mean and means everything in how the followers of that religion act.

I frankly havent read the Quran and have no desire to. I dont need to read the religious book to form an opinion of Islam, I need but watch how the savages act to know everything I need to know. It doesnt matter what the Quran says.

As they say, actions speak louder then words.

Really, so ALL Muslims, or a majority of Muslims, act like "savages"?

Thats for you to decide.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Socio
Well you may have read it but comprehending it maybe another question altogether.

Let me see if I can put this in an easy to understand context;

Islam is the only religion in which it's prophet's primary role was not as a missionary of God, a cleric or a religious figure!
Nonsense.

Muhammad's primary role was a head of the ?Government? similar to the role the Supreme Leader of Iran holds, only for the entire Muslim world. Muhammad was first, a leader & the head of the nation of Islam and religious leader second. Eventually these two mixed up together to a point that the Government became part of the Religion.
The same can be easily said of Moses.

All three branches of government, the judicial, the executive, & the legislative branch were always under the leadership & control of the Khalifat of Islam since the beginning of Islam. It started with Muhammad and it is still going on today as we see it in Muslim nations like Iran. Islam is not just another religion, Islam is a way of life in every aspect, Islam is a political ideology which rules the Islamic nation.
The same can be said of Europe and Christianity up until WWI. I already discussed in this thread.

This brings us to the core of the conflict between Democracy & Islam;

The fundamental key of democracy is the separation of Church of & State. Without it, there can be no democracy and Islam clearly and overwhelming contradicts this basic rule of democracy. Therefore it cannot harmoniously exist in a democracy at least in its current form.
You're confusing "democracy" with liberalism, but I'm not surprised by that because you don't know what liberalism actually is. As it is though, you are simply wrong, as evidenced by Christianity and its long and ONGOING attempts to subjugate the separation of church and state in the US. Thankfully, due to Jefferson's foresight, they have never been successful, but they continue to try.

This leaves two choices, either remove the political ideology from the religion and that will never happen, or remove its status as a religion because it can?t be both and called just a religion.

Either way would a violation of the 1st amendment, which protects the freedom of both religious AND political ideologies. Note that there are both communist and nazi parties in the US, for example.

You are wrong, they can not simultaneously exist in one entity; for example the democrats could not declare themselves a church with all the rights of a church because that would be in direct conflict with separation of church and state and the democrats would either have to dissolve their party or their church!



 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
Originally posted by: Socio

You are wrong, they can not simultaneously exist in one entity; for example the democrats could not declare themselves a church with all the rights of a church because that would be direct conflict with separation of church and state and the democrats would either have to dissolve their party or their church!

What in the holy hell are you talking about?
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Socio

You are wrong, they can not simultaneously exist in one entity; for example the democrats could not declare themselves a church with all the rights of a church because that would be direct conflict with separation of church and state and the democrats would either have to dissolve their party or their church!

What in the holy hell are you talking about?

This;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...on_of_church_and_state

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.[2]

Islam has both government and religious institutions built into its belief structure which cannot be separated, thus Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah.

Secularism cannot be a solution for countries with a Muslim majority or even a sizeable minority, for it requires them to replace their God-given beliefs with an entirely different set of man-made beliefs. Separation of religion and state is not an option for Muslims because it requires them to abandon Allah's decree for that of a man.

So what do you do?

The only logical recourse is to declare Islam not a religion before they reach majority or even a sizeable minority since it cannot exist in a secular society. This would neuter its ability to protect its political ideology with its religion and limit its power so that secularism can hopefully keep the upper hand.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Socio

You are wrong, they can not simultaneously exist in one entity; for example the democrats could not declare themselves a church with all the rights of a church because that would be direct conflict with separation of church and state and the democrats would either have to dissolve their party or their church!

What in the holy hell are you talking about?

This;

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.[2]

Islam has both government and religious institutions built into its belief structure which cannot be separated, thus Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah.

Secularism cannot be a solution for countries with a Muslim majority or even a sizeable minority, for it requires them to replace their God-given beliefs with an entirely different set of man-made beliefs. Separation of religion and state is not an option for Muslims because it requires them to abandon Allah's decree for that of a man.

So what do you do?

The only logical recourse is to declare Islam not a religion before they reach majority or even a sizeable minority since it cannot exist in a secular society. This would neuter its ability to protect its political ideology with its religion and limit its power so that secularism can hopefully keep the upper hand.

The Democrats are not a government institution, they are a political party. Political parties can be as religious as they want and it does nothing to violate the separation of church and state. I think you just don't understand the basic terms we are discussing here.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Socio

You are wrong, they can not simultaneously exist in one entity; for example the democrats could not declare themselves a church with all the rights of a church because that would be direct conflict with separation of church and state and the democrats would either have to dissolve their party or their church!

What in the holy hell are you talking about?

This;

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.[2]

Islam has both government and religious institutions built into its belief structure which cannot be separated, thus Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah.

Secularism cannot be a solution for countries with a Muslim majority or even a sizeable minority, for it requires them to replace their God-given beliefs with an entirely different set of man-made beliefs. Separation of religion and state is not an option for Muslims because it requires them to abandon Allah's decree for that of a man.

So what do you do?

The only logical recourse is to declare Islam not a religion before they reach majority or even a sizeable minority since it cannot exist in a secular society. This would neuter its ability to protect its political ideology with its religion and limit its power so that secularism can hopefully keep the upper hand.

The Democrats are not a government institution, they are a political party. Political parties can be as religious as they want and it does nothing to violate the separation of church and state. I think you just don't understand the basic terms we are discussing here.

I'm certain of it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,235
6,338
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
What a tactic! Devalue the religion of the Muslims! Claim their religion is a scam! Then we won't feel so bad when we crush them.

Next, it'll be "They're not really people.". Then there is an obvious solution.

In order to see the impeccable logic of a bigot you have to wear the bigots magic bigoted lenses. "Oh please please see the horrible danger and save me." A bigot will kill his savior if his savior is a member of the bigot's target group.

Well, it's only obvious that outlawing all political free expression is next on the list of their agenda of making America into a one-religion, one-party state.

That you should say so doesn't strike me as unusual. I consider you to be profoundly insightful into the political consequences of madness, for lack of a better name, and I look to you as a person from whom I have already and will continue to learn a great deal. Thanks to what is obvious to you some of it is now more obvious to me.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,235
6,338
126
We have had thousands of years of war between one group and another because one group was evil and now in America in 2008 we have at last identified the real enemy. We are not the psychopaths who have caused untold millions of deaths. We are visionaries and seers. We have at come to the true understanding. It's them fucken Muslims.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
What a tactic! Devalue the religion of the Muslims! Claim their religion is a scam! Then we won't feel so bad when we crush them.

Next, it'll be "They're not really people.". Then there is an obvious solution.

In order to see the impeccable logic of a bigot you have to wear the bigots magic bigoted lenses. "Oh please please see the horrible danger and save me." A bigot will kill his savior if his savior is a member of the bigot's target group.

Well, it's only obvious that outlawing all political free expression is next on the list of their agenda of making America into a one-religion, one-party state.

That you should say so doesn't strike me as unusual. I consider you to be profoundly insightful into the political consequences of madness, for lack of a better name, and I look to you as a person from whom I have already and will continue to learn a great deal. Thanks to what is obvious to you some of it is now more obvious to me.

Thanks for the kind words. The difficulty is that they don't recognize their own madness, so good luck. This goes back to their solution that dare not speak its name.

Anyway, it's stupid. Even by the most generous estimates, there's twice as many Mormons, 3x as many Jews, and 50x as many Christians, as there are Muslims in the US. The danger that the 5 million Muslims in the US are going to rise up and overthrow the US govt in favor of Islamic rule and Sharia law is slim to fucking none. So pardon me if I'm not going to want to junk the 1st amendment because some idiot deluded neo-nazi on some internet forum wants me to fear teh muslim!
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Vic
That's because the problem that people are becoming aware of is the neo-nazi ilk like you Socio.

Consider, what possible 'solution' do you have for the Islam 'problem' besides infringing on the basic 1st amendment guarantee of freedom of religion?

How about not forcing that religion down anyone elses throat? Oh, how about not catering to them? I know, how about we not reengineer our entire society for the benefit of a very small minority.

Naw, fuck that. Lets make the rules so the 99% of the people have to tip toe around so as to not piss off the 1%.......

:roll: These kinds of threads always bring out the paranoid cowards.
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
2,822
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Vic
I've read the Quran cover to cover twice, thank you. I even have a copy of the Asad translation in my bookcase. Along with a good deal of medieval Islamic poetry, like Rumi (who I am quite fond of). It is in fact a religion every bit as much as Christianity. I have also read the Bible several times and in different translations. At one point in my life, I found religious studies to be quite fascinating.
Your paranoid logic is like pointing to Leviticus in the Bible and then calling Judaism or Christianity a political ideology because of the Law of Moses. And let's not even get into Jesus' radical politics, eh?

And then I could point to Christianity's extensive history of authoritarian government, the Pope and the Church in Rome, the Christian monarchs in Europe (a few of which still exist), the puritan colony in Massachusetts, 'blue laws' in the United States, etc etc and OMG, I think I just blew to pieces this argument you claimed I couldn't fight.

I think we've said it some time ago, it means fuck all what the various religious books mean and means everything in how the followers of that religion act.

I frankly havent read the Quran and have no desire to. I dont need to read the religious book to form an opinion of Islam,...

"An ignorant person will always overdo a thing or neglect it totally."
Imam Ali

I need but watch how the savages act to know everything I need to know.

Almost any faith have had / still has / is yet to have those savages you speak off.
Have you not seen / heard of the savages of Christianity and or the savages of Judaism for instance? What about the classifications of those religions from your POV? Does your approach apply equally to those faiths too?
I think not.

It doesnt matter what the Quran says.

If the MOST memorized and read book in the whole World (read, recited, studied & memorized round the clock by Muslims and non-Muslims everywhere) is of no importance to you to even take a look at....then please tell me who do you think you are to come and blast my religion as if you are the top scholarly authority on the matter? I am trying not to be offensive here as much as I can, but TBH if that is not ignorance then I don't know what is...

As they say, actions speak louder then words.

Indeed, but had your actions had any voice at all, we wouldn't have had to bare your ill willed weak words over and over and over and over....every time this topic pops up.

Look at it this way, Mohammad (PBUH) said what he had to say once and took hist actions he had to take once ~1500 years ago. Now, Billions of people need not any further convincing if what he said made sense or not. In comparison had people like you have the ability to live for ~1500 years and say the things that people like you say for ~1500 years, you would only convince those who are only identically ill informed as you are.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Vic
I've read the Quran cover to cover twice, thank you. I even have a copy of the Asad translation in my bookcase. Along with a good deal of medieval Islamic poetry, like Rumi (who I am quite fond of). It is in fact a religion every bit as much as Christianity. I have also read the Bible several times and in different translations. At one point in my life, I found religious studies to be quite fascinating.
Your paranoid logic is like pointing to Leviticus in the Bible and then calling Judaism or Christianity a political ideology because of the Law of Moses. And let's not even get into Jesus' radical politics, eh?

And then I could point to Christianity's extensive history of authoritarian government, the Pope and the Church in Rome, the Christian monarchs in Europe (a few of which still exist), the puritan colony in Massachusetts, 'blue laws' in the United States, etc etc and OMG, I think I just blew to pieces this argument you claimed I couldn't fight.

I think we've said it some time ago, it means fuck all what the various religious books mean and means everything in how the followers of that religion act.

I frankly havent read the Quran and have no desire to. I dont need to read the religious book to form an opinion of Islam, I need but watch how the savages act to know everything I need to know. It doesnt matter what the Quran says.

As they say, actions speak louder then words.

Really, so ALL Muslims, or a majority of Muslims, act like "savages"?

Thats for you to decide.

Indeed...and I think my views on that question are pretty clear. I think the majority of Muslims are no more objectionable than the members of any other major religion, and I think the minority we need to be worried about are characterized by far more objectionable traits than being Muslim.

But no fair avoiding the question. Your posts in this thread clearly indicate that you too have an answer to that question...so let's hear it.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,277
0
0
Looks like the repugs are really get scared at the prospect of losing power soon and are getting desperate.

Next we'll be hearing about our moral duty (as americans or christians or ...) to let loose the nukes.
 

Hajpoj

Senior member
Dec 9, 2006
288
0
0
We have the capability to eradicate every Islamist on the face of the planet and don't. That should give every radical muslim a clue over their desire to kill us...

The Bottom Line: We can wipe them out, all of them. Try as they might, they can never achieve the same against us. Sure they can do damage, but the ultimate result is their guaranteed removal from the face of the Earth. If they want a future, it is best they bide their time and not throw away their lives for what is an impossible goal.

People! We have access to the most advanced, effective and wide-spread methods of eliminating massive groups of people with ease...they don't!

 

Vonkhan

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2003
8,198
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I'm Muslim ...

BOO!

Look, Socio and Spec just pooped in their pants :D

zee moooslems, zey are attackin uz!!!
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
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Do we really care, as non Muslims all that much, that is, within the context of what we have to deal with and confront? Do rational people honestly worry about the Muslims next door down the street in Boise, Toronto or Peoria? Or are we simply giving more credence to rednecks and retards than they are due? See, non Muslims don't really know or care much what it does or does not assert in Quran. All they know is what they think is a touchpoint for all the things they fear and hate. Someone told them its in Quran they repeat that to their friends. Soon everyone states it's in Quran. Big deal. Whether it is or not isn't going to change their bigotry.

In the Islamic countries there is no monolithic structure that most Westerners think. there is a lot of common factors between the Christian fundamentalists in the US, or their Jewish counterparts in Israel, or their Islamic counterparts in the Middle East - however - within all these regions there are different class forces - with different and conflicting class interests - there is not one large, amorphous bunch of people with some overriding fundamentalist dogma. Projecting that so-called clash of civilizations makes things easy to make war - to deceive people - to spread mass fear and ignorance.

In the end it is about getting along. No one here is going to change the world - no one will ever eradicate religion from human civilization. Those of you so vehemently attacking Islam (while defending Christianity, which is a laugh) are not wrong, not unjustified in your stance - you are just irrelevant.

ALL religions include violence and peace, hate and love, anger, fear, retribution, and a sense of superiority, because ALL people include these traits in their human nature. You may not be wrong in what you say - that Islam has foundations on violence and political power struggles - but that does not mean that you are right about everything. Being that we have had, and will always have, religion as an integral part of society and civilization - what good does your railing against one religion or the other do?

These posters, railing against Islam, are here, hidden among us all, pretending to be rational, or reasonable. You cause as much fear as a Mohammed Atta, because like him, you're trying to pretend you fit into decent society, but inside, harbor deep, festering hatred, and hope for aggressive, even violent solutions to change things to the way you want them.

People who refer to "Islamofascism" display their prejudice and ignorance all at once. Islamic fundamentalism is Internationalist in character vs. the extreme Nationalism of Fascism. Also Islamic Fundamentalism lacks the other characteristic of Fascism the fusion of the Corporate and Political spheres.