Muslim Speaker Tells Of Islam's Plan For Europe And America

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BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
0
76
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Aimster
Christians and Muslims live side-by-side in Lebanon

That is only because the Christians had the political power to survive, that is changing and the affects will be devastating;

"Fall" Lebanon "Horrendous" Implications For Christians And Middle East

BEIRUT, LEBANON (BosNewsLife)-- A key official of the World Evangelical Alliance Religious Liberty Commission (WEA-RLC) has warned that Iran-sponsored Hezbollah's veto over government decisions means "the fall of Lebanon" with "horrendous implications" for religious liberty and security in the Middle East.

"The fall of Lebanon is the continuation and confluence of two trends that are being monitored by WEA-RLC: The Shi'ite ascendancy and the decline of United States influence," said the organization's Principal Researcher and Writer Elizabeth Kendal.

"It has horrendous implications not only for Lebanon but for religious liberty and security in the whole Middle East." WEA-RLC, which represents millions of evangelical Christians around the world, has investigated the impact of the rise of Hezbollah, a powerful Lebanon-based Shi'ite Islamist group, on Christians and other non-Muslims.

"Shi'ite power rises and advances across the region, and as US influence declines, "allies" in the region", including Sunni Muslims and countries such as Jordan, "are switching sides," Kendal noted.

DRAMATIC RISE

"Recent reports reveal a sudden ominous and dramatic rise in religious repression and hostility from the formerly progressive and West-friendly regime in Jordan. Having demonstrated its power so profoundly, Hezbollah will not have to work too hard in Lebanon to get the Sunnis to line up behind its anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, pro-Sharia, pro-jihad "Islamic" agenda."

Believe me, I know Lebanese and they HATE the Muslims. Lebanon is a horrible example.

 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Here's another amazing story about how the British are preparing for the surrender:

From The Daily Telegraph

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah'
By Nick Britten

Two schoolboys were allegedly disciplined after refusing to kneel down and "pray to Allah" during a religious education lesson.

It was claimed that the boys, from a year seven class of 11 and 12-year-olds, were given detention after refusing to take part in a practical demonstration of how Allah is worshipped.

Yesterday parents accused the school of breaching their human rights by forcing them to take part in the exercise.

One, Sharon Luinen, said: "This isn't right, it's taking things too far. I understand that they have to learn about other religions. I can live with that but it is taking it a step too far to be punished because they wouldn't join in Muslim prayer.

"Making them pray to Allah, who isn't who they worship, is wrong and what got me is that they were told they were being disrespectful."

Another parent Karen Williams, 38, whose 12-year-old daughter is a classmate of the boys, said: "I am absolutely furious my daughter was made to take part in it and I don't find it acceptable.

"The teacher had gone into the class and made them watch a short film and then said 'we are now going out to pray to Allah'.

"Then two boys got detention and all the other children missed their refreshments' break."

She added: "Not only was it forced upon them, my daughter was told off for not doing it right.

"They'd never done it before and they were supposed to do it in another language."

She said the pupils were asked if they had water on them, and when one girl produced a bottle, the teacher began washing her feet with it.

Her husband Keith, 44, a painter and decorator, said: "The school is wonderful but this one teacher has made a major mistake. It seems to be happening throughout society. People think they can ride roughshod over our beliefs and the way we live."

The alleged incident, at the Alsager school, one of Cheshire's top performing schools, happened on Tuesday afternoon. The teacher, Alison Phillips, the school's subject leader in RE, is understood to be staying away from the school until the furore dies down, although she has not been suspended.

She is said to have got prayer mats out of the cupboard and also asked children to wear Islamic headdresses.

Deputy headmaster Keith Plant said: "I have spoken to the teacher and she has articulately given me her version of events."

Sources at the school said the incident could have been down to Miss Phillips instigating a role play and not properly briefing the pupils, all aged around 12, what she was doing.

A spokesman for Cheshire County Council said they were investigating. He added: "The headteacher contacted the authority immediately complaints were received. Enquiries are being made into the circumstances as a matter of urgency and all parents will be informed accordingly.

"Educating children in the beliefs of different faiths is part of Cheshire's diversity curriculum on the basis that knowledge is, of course, is essential to understanding.

"We accept that such teaching has to be conducted with commonsense and sensitivity."
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
This is why separation of church and state is so important; I would blow a gasket too if someone made my children bow to a god they do not worship or force them to do any other acts of a religion they did not belong to that is just asinine!
 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,940
0
76
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Aimster
Christians and Muslims live side-by-side in Lebanon

That is only because the Christians had the political power to survive, that is changing and the affects will be devastating;

"Fall" Lebanon "Horrendous" Implications For Christians And Middle East

BEIRUT, LEBANON (BosNewsLife)-- A key official of the World Evangelical Alliance Religious Liberty Commission (WEA-RLC) has warned that Iran-sponsored Hezbollah's veto over government decisions means "the fall of Lebanon" with "horrendous implications" for religious liberty and security in the Middle East.

"The fall of Lebanon is the continuation and confluence of two trends that are being monitored by WEA-RLC: The Shi'ite ascendancy and the decline of United States influence," said the organization's Principal Researcher and Writer Elizabeth Kendal.

"It has horrendous implications not only for Lebanon but for religious liberty and security in the whole Middle East." WEA-RLC, which represents millions of evangelical Christians around the world, has investigated the impact of the rise of Hezbollah, a powerful Lebanon-based Shi'ite Islamist group, on Christians and other non-Muslims.

"Shi'ite power rises and advances across the region, and as US influence declines, "allies" in the region", including Sunni Muslims and countries such as Jordan, "are switching sides," Kendal noted.

DRAMATIC RISE

"Recent reports reveal a sudden ominous and dramatic rise in religious repression and hostility from the formerly progressive and West-friendly regime in Jordan. Having demonstrated its power so profoundly, Hezbollah will not have to work too hard in Lebanon to get the Sunnis to line up behind its anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, pro-Sharia, pro-jihad "Islamic" agenda."

Believe me, I know Lebanese and they HATE the Muslims. Lebanon is a horrible example.

60% of Lebanese are Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: ranmaniac
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Aimster
Christians and Muslims live side-by-side in Lebanon

That is only because the Christians had the political power to survive, that is changing and the affects will be devastating;

"Fall" Lebanon "Horrendous" Implications For Christians And Middle East

BEIRUT, LEBANON (BosNewsLife)-- A key official of the World Evangelical Alliance Religious Liberty Commission (WEA-RLC) has warned that Iran-sponsored Hezbollah's veto over government decisions means "the fall of Lebanon" with "horrendous implications" for religious liberty and security in the Middle East.

"The fall of Lebanon is the continuation and confluence of two trends that are being monitored by WEA-RLC: The Shi'ite ascendancy and the decline of United States influence," said the organization's Principal Researcher and Writer Elizabeth Kendal.

"It has horrendous implications not only for Lebanon but for religious liberty and security in the whole Middle East." WEA-RLC, which represents millions of evangelical Christians around the world, has investigated the impact of the rise of Hezbollah, a powerful Lebanon-based Shi'ite Islamist group, on Christians and other non-Muslims.

"Shi'ite power rises and advances across the region, and as US influence declines, "allies" in the region", including Sunni Muslims and countries such as Jordan, "are switching sides," Kendal noted.

DRAMATIC RISE

"Recent reports reveal a sudden ominous and dramatic rise in religious repression and hostility from the formerly progressive and West-friendly regime in Jordan. Having demonstrated its power so profoundly, Hezbollah will not have to work too hard in Lebanon to get the Sunnis to line up behind its anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, pro-Sharia, pro-jihad "Islamic" agenda."

Believe me, I know Lebanese and they HATE the Muslims. Lebanon is a horrible example.

60% of Lebanese are Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

Yes and they are approaching this stage; I don?t think it will happen all at once but it will gradually get uglier and uglier for the non-Muslims there

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: ranmaniac
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Aimster
Christians and Muslims live side-by-side in Lebanon

That is only because the Christians had the political power to survive, that is changing and the affects will be devastating;

"Fall" Lebanon "Horrendous" Implications For Christians And Middle East

BEIRUT, LEBANON (BosNewsLife)-- A key official of the World Evangelical Alliance Religious Liberty Commission (WEA-RLC) has warned that Iran-sponsored Hezbollah's veto over government decisions means "the fall of Lebanon" with "horrendous implications" for religious liberty and security in the Middle East.

"The fall of Lebanon is the continuation and confluence of two trends that are being monitored by WEA-RLC: The Shi'ite ascendancy and the decline of United States influence," said the organization's Principal Researcher and Writer Elizabeth Kendal.

"It has horrendous implications not only for Lebanon but for religious liberty and security in the whole Middle East." WEA-RLC, which represents millions of evangelical Christians around the world, has investigated the impact of the rise of Hezbollah, a powerful Lebanon-based Shi'ite Islamist group, on Christians and other non-Muslims.

"Shi'ite power rises and advances across the region, and as US influence declines, "allies" in the region", including Sunni Muslims and countries such as Jordan, "are switching sides," Kendal noted.

DRAMATIC RISE

"Recent reports reveal a sudden ominous and dramatic rise in religious repression and hostility from the formerly progressive and West-friendly regime in Jordan. Having demonstrated its power so profoundly, Hezbollah will not have to work too hard in Lebanon to get the Sunnis to line up behind its anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, pro-Sharia, pro-jihad "Islamic" agenda."

Believe me, I know Lebanese and they HATE the Muslims. Lebanon is a horrible example.

60% of Lebanese are Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

Yes and they are approaching this stage; I don?t think it will happen all at once but it will gradually get uglier and uglier for the non-Muslims there

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

The leader of Lebanon is Christian

Go cry
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: ranmaniac
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Aimster
Christians and Muslims live side-by-side in Lebanon

That is only because the Christians had the political power to survive, that is changing and the affects will be devastating;

"Fall" Lebanon "Horrendous" Implications For Christians And Middle East

BEIRUT, LEBANON (BosNewsLife)-- A key official of the World Evangelical Alliance Religious Liberty Commission (WEA-RLC) has warned that Iran-sponsored Hezbollah's veto over government decisions means "the fall of Lebanon" with "horrendous implications" for religious liberty and security in the Middle East.

"The fall of Lebanon is the continuation and confluence of two trends that are being monitored by WEA-RLC: The Shi'ite ascendancy and the decline of United States influence," said the organization's Principal Researcher and Writer Elizabeth Kendal.

"It has horrendous implications not only for Lebanon but for religious liberty and security in the whole Middle East." WEA-RLC, which represents millions of evangelical Christians around the world, has investigated the impact of the rise of Hezbollah, a powerful Lebanon-based Shi'ite Islamist group, on Christians and other non-Muslims.

"Shi'ite power rises and advances across the region, and as US influence declines, "allies" in the region", including Sunni Muslims and countries such as Jordan, "are switching sides," Kendal noted.

DRAMATIC RISE

"Recent reports reveal a sudden ominous and dramatic rise in religious repression and hostility from the formerly progressive and West-friendly regime in Jordan. Having demonstrated its power so profoundly, Hezbollah will not have to work too hard in Lebanon to get the Sunnis to line up behind its anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, pro-Sharia, pro-jihad "Islamic" agenda."

Believe me, I know Lebanese and they HATE the Muslims. Lebanon is a horrible example.

60% of Lebanese are Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon

Yes and they are approaching this stage; I don?t think it will happen all at once but it will gradually get uglier and uglier for the non-Muslims there

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

The leader of Lebanon is Christian

For now
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The wonderful thing about fear, Vic, is that you don't have to have it yourself to be affected by it. The psychopaths have a way of effecting the normal by their utter irrationality and imperviousness to reason. And there's always the occasional outbreak of mass psychosis. It was a nice try to tell socio he's nuts like all historical haters, but all those fools hated people who were harmless. Only he sees the really dangerous ones. He is different. He can't be fooled like they were. Socio is a terrified coward and it makes him blind and stupid.

Let?s see; I present a plethora corroborating evidence to bolster my beliefs and instead of countering any of my evidence with your own you spew a tirade that does nothing but mirror you because you don?t even have the guts to consider a word I have said! Then you have the nerve to call me a blind, stupid, terrified, coward.

You really didn't present anything. Instead of presenting evidence that can be used as a basis for drawing a reasonable conclusion, you started with the worldview you wanted and then looked at everything with your preexisting bias. That kind of confirmation bias is extremely common, especially among people who believe in an otherwise unsupportable idea.

You'd make a lousy scientist, because you're doing the same stupid thing the 9/11 conspiracy nuts do. Your starting point is absolute iron-clad certainty in a particular theory, then you look at everything to see if it supports your theory. Those that don't are either twisted to appear to do so or discarded. Because the Internet allows so much information to be accessed, this kind of thing is much easier than it would have been years ago. You can scour hundreds of stories until you find one that sounds good, then point to that like it's absolute proof that you're right, totally ignoring the greater context.

Basically, you're full of crap, and the only way people are going to stop SAYING that is if you stop acting the way you do. You want your arguments to be taken seriously? Make better arguments.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
Socio

Here's my take on the original article.

If it is anything other than Muslim bashing, it is a trap designed to snag suckers like you.

It is designed to foster fear and loathing. This may lead to repression and aggression against Muslims. This, in turn, might lead to aggressive action by Muslims in retaliation or even self preservation. This then would be the call to arms for people like you to destroy the Muslim populations around you. You have become a tool, a dispenser of fear and hate, ignorantly serving another's agenda.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,235
6,338
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The wonderful thing about fear, Vic, is that you don't have to have it yourself to be affected by it. The psychopaths have a way of effecting the normal by their utter irrationality and imperviousness to reason. And there's always the occasional outbreak of mass psychosis. It was a nice try to tell socio he's nuts like all historical haters, but all those fools hated people who were harmless. Only he sees the really dangerous ones. He is different. He can't be fooled like they were. Socio is a terrified coward and it makes him blind and stupid.

Let?s see; I present a plethora corroborating evidence to bolster my beliefs and instead of countering any of my evidence with your own you spew a tirade that does nothing but mirror you because you don?t even have the guts to consider a word I have said! Then you have the nerve to call me a blind, stupid, terrified, coward.

You really didn't present anything. Instead of presenting evidence that can be used as a basis for drawing a reasonable conclusion, you started with the worldview you wanted and then looked at everything with your preexisting bias. That kind of confirmation bias is extremely common, especially among people who believe in an otherwise unsupportable idea.

You'd make a lousy scientist, because you're doing the same stupid thing the 9/11 conspiracy nuts do. Your starting point is absolute iron-clad certainty in a particular theory, then you look at everything to see if it supports your theory. Those that don't are either twisted to appear to do so or discarded. Because the Internet allows so much information to be accessed, this kind of thing is much easier than it would have been years ago. You can scour hundreds of stories until you find one that sounds good, then point to that like it's absolute proof that you're right, totally ignoring the greater context.

Basically, you're full of crap, and the only way people are going to stop SAYING that is if you stop acting the way you do. You want your arguments to be taken seriously? Make better arguments.
You can tell a bigot but you can't tell him much. It's like telling a man wearing rose colored lenses the world isn't rose colored when he can see plain as day that it is. The bigotry or rose coloration has its origin in the unconscious and the unconscious is the thing we can't see. Until the bigot can forgive himself for the sins he was made to feel he was responsible for he can't stop pointing the finger that was pointed at him at others. He needs to forgive them so he can forgive himself. He needs to love them so he can love himself. Can you imagine a Nazi loving a Jew. It can happen but it's awful damn rare. It's all in the Lord's Prayer buy the blind can't see anything.
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
2,822
0
0
Originally posted by: umbrella39
You really need to come up here and live in Dearborn for a while to get this shit out of your head Socio and stop being so affraid. It isn't anywhere near as bad as you are trying to paint it and these Muslims have been here for 50+ years already and are the majority by now for sure in our fair city. Sure there are a few rotten apples but the same can be said for all races in this city. They aren't taking over. I guess it must be really cool to live somewhere where you never run into anyone that is not exactly like you.

LMAO!
Can you even imagine socio's face while driving around Warren avenue? As soon as his eyes meet the first Lebanese pastry shop sign in Arabic he would be like:

"ZOMG!! 911? ZEE TAKE OVAR HAZ BEGUN I REPEAT ZEE TAKE OVAR HAZ BEGUN!!!1111OneOne!"
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,235
6,338
126
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Socio

Here's my take on the original article.

If it is anything other than Muslim bashing, it is a trap designed to snag suckers like you.

It is designed to foster fear and loathing. This may lead to repression and aggression against Muslims. This, in turn, might lead to aggressive action by Muslims in retaliation or even self preservation. This then would be the call to arms for people like you to destroy the Muslim populations around you. You have become a tool, a dispenser of fear and hate, ignorantly serving another's agenda.

Exactly. The unconscious finds a way to actualize our fears. Our only hope is to remember how we were taught to hate ourselves by feeling that actual hate, but what we do is back into it, by hating something similar. Thus we can bleed off some of the pain by releasing some of the feelings, but not enough that we actually become conscious of the real hidden trauma.

The thief will cause himself to feel how fucked up he feels by leaving his wallet at the crime scene, etc.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Socio
This is why separation of church and state is so important; I would blow a gasket too if someone made my children bow to a god they do not worship or force them to do any other acts of a religion they did not belong to that is just asinine!

Finally, the first thing I agree with you on that I recall. I think it's out of line for a school to ask children to actually take part in worhsip for another religion.

Of course, in our country, the religious right has long fought to increase the mandatory Christian practices in schools, and not been to worried about the effect on those who won't.

Because they face a tough fight, they're mainly starting with small steps, like a 'moment of silence for prayer' to get precedents started.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The wonderful thing about fear, Vic, is that you don't have to have it yourself to be affected by it. The psychopaths have a way of effecting the normal by their utter irrationality and imperviousness to reason. And there's always the occasional outbreak of mass psychosis. It was a nice try to tell socio he's nuts like all historical haters, but all those fools hated people who were harmless. Only he sees the really dangerous ones. He is different. He can't be fooled like they were. Socio is a terrified coward and it makes him blind and stupid.

Let?s see; I present a plethora corroborating evidence to bolster my beliefs and instead of countering any of my evidence with your own you spew a tirade that does nothing but mirror you because you don?t even have the guts to consider a word I have said! Then you have the nerve to call me a blind, stupid, terrified, coward.

You really didn't present anything. Instead of presenting evidence that can be used as a basis for drawing a reasonable conclusion, you started with the worldview you wanted and then looked at everything with your preexisting bias. That kind of confirmation bias is extremely common, especially among people who believe in an otherwise unsupportable idea.

You'd make a lousy scientist, because you're doing the same stupid thing the 9/11 conspiracy nuts do. Your starting point is absolute iron-clad certainty in a particular theory, then you look at everything to see if it supports your theory. Those that don't are either twisted to appear to do so or discarded. Because the Internet allows so much information to be accessed, this kind of thing is much easier than it would have been years ago. You can scour hundreds of stories until you find one that sounds good, then point to that like it's absolute proof that you're right, totally ignoring the greater context.

Basically, you're full of crap, and the only way people are going to stop SAYING that is if you stop acting the way you do. You want your arguments to be taken seriously? Make better arguments.

No,

The initial case was made in the first post and I merely attempted to refute or disprove arguments by offering contrary evidence or argument to it, it is calleddebating.

I presented a prediction made some 5 years ago in which even the most intellectually challenged among us could easily correlate what has transpired and is transpiring in the world today to what is on the list. (If you have the ability to stand way back and look at the big picture it is truly startling.)

It was immediately attacked so I bolstered its case by countering every legit criticism with the best facts available. It is exactly what lawyers do in a court room, exactly what great debaters to in fact it is exactly what your messiah Obama does, again that is called debating!

My only error if you can call it an error is I made my case so strong it has left only the ability to denounce messenger by those whom refuse to even consider the possibility of there being any validity whatsoever in it let alone a flaw.

If anyone needs a better argument here is it those that denounce the messenger rather than discuss the topic!

I heard this saying sometime back and I think it applies here; ?Only those without bias should proclaim another?s?
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Socio

Here's my take on the original article.

If it is anything other than Muslim bashing, it is a trap designed to snag suckers like you.

It is designed to foster fear and loathing. This may lead to repression and aggression against Muslims. This, in turn, might lead to aggressive action by Muslims in retaliation or even self preservation. This then would be the call to arms for people like you to destroy the Muslim populations around you. You have become a tool, a dispenser of fear and hate, ignorantly serving another's agenda.

You called the kettle black twice on that one!

 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
2
81
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Red Dawn

As would the vast majority of Americans. What's possible in Britian isn't even remotely possible here due to the fact that Muslims as such a minute minority. Unless we start letting a bunch of them from Iraq migrate here like we did with the Vietnamese after that war I doubt they'll ever be a significant minority

But, it is happening here. There are publicly financed muslim-only schools. We have many, many cases of apologies for free-speech incidents that "offended" muslims. We have CAIR more and more making it's presence known in it's lawsuits against Americans who used their free-speech rights. We have public schools bringing in muslim religious leaders to discuss Islam with young children. These are small steps, yet we turn our cheek and say "it's not possible" or "you're just a scared nazi". I don't care what anyone calls me or says, it's happening, we just choose to ignore it.
You are mistaken tolerence for something else. We'll tolerate them, that's what Americans do. If they start demanding the we abide by their rules then our tolerance will end. They don't have the numbers that the Hispanic immigrants do so they don't have the clout.

They themselves don't have the numbers or clout, but they are hitching onto the political correctness bandwagon to gain leverage. Every time someone says something they don't like, they use the PC machine to silence that person or demand an apology etc. If someone comments on wacky behavior (like a cashier not checking people out at a store because they purchased pork products), they use the PC police to make sure you're not being 'insensitive' to them etc.

And just like the Brits, we're all collectively standing here watching wacko groups change the fabric of the country to suit their agenda. :|

So what should we do to stop them?

I don't think it is possible but that is no reason to pretend it isn't here is some good reasons why;

Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? Here are ten reasons why not

1) The first is the extent of political division in the non-Muslim world about what is afoot. Some reject outright that there is a war at all; others agree with the assertion by the US President that ?the war we fight is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century?. Divided counsels have also dictated everything from ?dialogue? to the use of nuclear weapons, and from reliance on ?public diplomacy? to ?taking out Islamic sites?, Mecca included. Adding to this incoherence has been the gulf between those bristling to take the fight to the ?terrorist? and those who would impede such a fight, whether from domestic civil libertarian concerns or from rivalrous geopolitical calculation.

2) The second reason why, as things stand, Islam will not be defeated is that the strengths of the world community of Muslims are being underestimated, and the nature of Islam misunderstood. It is neither a ?religion of peace? nor a ?religion hijacked? or ?perverted? by ?the few?. Instead, its moral intransigence and revived ardours, its jihadist ethic and the refusal of most diaspora Muslims to ?share a common set of values? with non-Muslims are all one, and justified by the Koran itself.

Islam is not even a religion in the conventional sense of the term. It is a transnational political and ethical movement that believes that it holds the solution to mankind?s problems. It therefore holds that it is in mankind?s own interests to be subdued under Islam?s rule. Such belief therefore makes an absurdity of the project to ?democratise? Muslim nations in the West?s interests, an inversion that Islam cannot accept and, in its own terms, rightly so. It renders naive, too, the distinction between the military and political wings of Islamic movements; and makes Donald Rumsfeld?s assertion in June 2005 that the insurgents in Iraq ?don?t have vision, they?re losers? merely foolish. In this war, if there is a war, the boot is on the other foot.

3) Indeed, the third reason why Islam will not be defeated, as things stand, is the low level of Western leadership, in particular in the United States. During the half-century of the Islamic revival, it has shown itself at sixes and sevens both diplomatically and militarily. It has been without a sense of strategic direction, and been unable to settle upon coherent war plans. It has even lacked the gifts of language to make its purposes plain. Or, as Burke put it in March, 1775, ?a great empire and little minds go ill together?. In this war with Islam, if it is a war, the combination bodes defeat.

4) Next is the contribution to the disarray of Western policy-making being made by the egotistical competitiveness, and in some cases hysterics, of ?experts? and commentators on Islam. They include hyperventilating Islamophobes as well as academic apologists for the worst that is being done in Islam?s name. On this battleground, with its personalised blogsites to assist self-promotion, many seem to think that their opinions are more important than the issues upon which they are passing judgment; and amid the babel of advisory voices, policy has become increasingly inconsistent.

5) The fifth disablement is to be found in the confusion of ?progressives? about the Islamic advance. With their political and moral bearings lost since the defeat of the ?socialist project?, many on the Left have only the i love you-end of anti-colonial positions on which to take their stand. To attribute the West?s problems to our colonial past contains some truth. But it is again to misunderstand the inner strength of Islam?s revival, which is owed not to victimhood but to advancing confidence in its own belief system.

Moreover, to Islam?s further advantage, it has led most of today?s ?progressives? to say little, or even to keep silent, about what would once have been regarded as the reactionary aspects of Islam: its oppressive hostility to dissent, its maltreatment of women, its supremacist hatred of selected out-groups such as Jews and gays, and its readiness to incite and to use extremes of violence against them. Mein Kampf circulates in Arab countries under the title Jihadi.

6) The sixth reason for Islam?s growing strength is the vicarious satisfaction felt by many non-Muslims at America?s reverses. Those who feel such satisfaction could be regarded as Trojan horses, a cavalry whose number is legion and which is growing. For some, their principle ? or anti-principle ? is that ?my enemy?s enemy is my friend?. Others believe their refusal of support for the war with Islam, if there is such a war, is a righteous one. But the consequences are the same: Islam?s advance is being borne along by Muslims and non-Muslims together.

7) The seventh reason lies in the moral poverty of the West?s, and especially America?s, own value system. Doctrines of market freedom, free choice and competition ? or ?freedom ?n? liberty? ? are no match for the ethics of Islam and Sharia, like them or not. Yet in the ?battle for hearts and minds? the US First Cavalry Division saw fit to set up ?Operation Adam Smith? in Iraq to teach marketing skills, among other things, to local entrepreneurs. There can be no victory here. Or, as Sheikh Mohammed al-Tabatabi told thousands of worshippers in Baghdad in May 2003: ?The West calls for freedom and liberty. Islam rejects such liberty. True liberty is obedience to Allah.?

8) The next indication that Islam?s advance will continue lies in the skilful use being made of the media and of the world wide web in the service both of the ?electronic jihad? and the bamboozling of Western opinion by Muslim spokesmen. It is also a political enterprise in which Muslims and non-Muslims can now be found acting together in furthering the reach of Islam?s world view; the help being given by Western producers and broadcasters to al-Jazeera is the most notable instance of it.

9) The ninth factor guaranteeing Islam?s onward march is the West?s dependency on the material resources of Arab and Muslim countries. In April 1917, Woodrow Wilson, recommending to the US Congress an American declaration of war against Germany, could say that ?we have no selfish ends to serve?. American levels of consumption make no such statement possible now. The US is, so to speak, over a barrel. It will remain so.

10) Finally, the West is convinced that its notions of technology-driven modernity and market-driven prog- ress are innately superior to the ideals of ?backward? Islam. This is an old delusion. In 1899, Winston Churchill asserted that there was ?no stronger retrograde force in the world? than Islam. More than a century later, it is fondly believed that sophisticated hardware and Star Wars defences will ensure Western mastery in this war, if it is a war.


But as the Saudi ?scholar? Suleiman al-Omar declared in June 2004: ?Islam is advancing according to a steady plan. America will be destroyed.?

As you can see reason numbers 5 & 6 are alive and flourshing right before your very eyes in this thread.

 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: Socio



But as the Saudi ?scholar? Suleiman al-Omar declared in June 2004: ?Islam is advancing according to a steady plan. America will be destroyed.?

As you can see reason numbers 5 & 6 are alive and flourshing right before your very eyes in this thread.

Unfortunately the Left is blinded by its ideals. They simply cannot comprehend the fact that humanity is corrupt and vicious. To them Islam is truly a peaceful religion with no ill will on others. As such when Islam makes advances such as being able to be ruled by their laws or being able to pray in school it isnt another step in the takeover, its another step in the freedoms of a country.

They, the Left, could never admit to the possibility that the "other guy" would be in any way underhanded or driven by an ulterior motive or working towards a nefarious goal. Its simply an impossibility to them. Just as no person on welfare is undeserving when in fact the system is ripe with abuse.

The Left is so full of its own self hatred and loathing for themselves that they cannot admit anyone but their own would be in any way a threat.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,235
6,338
126
"Unfortunately the Left is blinded by its ideals. They simply cannot comprehend the fact that humanity is corrupt and vicious. To them Islam is truly a peaceful religion with no ill will on others. As such when Islam makes advances such as being able to be ruled by their laws or being able to pray in school it isnt another step in the takeover, its another step in the freedoms of a country.

They, the Left, could never admit to the possibility that the "other guy" would be in any way underhanded or driven by an ulterior motive or working towards a nefarious goal. Its simply an impossibility to them. Just as no person on welfare is undeserving when in fact the system is ripe with abuse.

The Left is so full of its own self hatred and loathing for themselves that they cannot admit anyone but their own would be in any way a threat."

Here we see the incoherent ramblings of a psychopath, the deep distrust and disgust that comes to a bigot who fears he can't persuade others of his own particular psychopathology, this special gift and insight he has into the evil of others. We, the greater sane world, he fears, have not experienced the particular horrors of his own childhood, have not repressed such memories of terror, and go through life without the tremendous anxiety these memories will burst into consciousness and confirm the fact he have been living his life emotionally dead. We see the tremendous hate for the life of the gullible and innocent other who can still trust in the goodness of man. The poor psychopath is so full of self hate he knows and is assured you're worthless too.

He does not see his own dark side and the fact that the madness he fears in others is his own. His method of blindness is to focus on the faults of others as an excuse for his own.

The right and the left are both victims of exactly the same disease. The right victimizes the left because the left didn't protect them from victimization as children and the left wants revenge for that revenge. Nobody escapes this madness without dying to psychopath that is the ego self. You must take all of your hate up on the cross and die there because they knew not what they did to you. Or as the Muslim would say, all that is was and ever will be was exactly as God willed. He who surrenders to the will of God is free. Thy will not my will so that earth can be just like heaven.

Humanity is corrupt and vicious only because humanity is sick with the disease of self hate.

To awaken to love is to live and to live is to feel pain. Live is given only to those who feel.

"Did you but suffer you would not suffer." A saying attributed to Jesus.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"Unfortunately the Left is blinded by its ideals. They simply cannot comprehend the fact that humanity is corrupt and vicious. To them Islam is truly a peaceful religion with no ill will on others. As such when Islam makes advances such as being able to be ruled by their laws or being able to pray in school it isnt another step in the takeover, its another step in the freedoms of a country.

They, the Left, could never admit to the possibility that the "other guy" would be in any way underhanded or driven by an ulterior motive or working towards a nefarious goal. Its simply an impossibility to them. Just as no person on welfare is undeserving when in fact the system is ripe with abuse.

The Left is so full of its own self hatred and loathing for themselves that they cannot admit anyone but their own would be in any way a threat."

Here we see the incoherent ramblings of a psychopath, the deep distrust and disgust that comes to a bigot who fears he can't persuade others of his own particular psychopathology, this special gift and insight he has into the evil of others.
Yeah that's rather obvious. It's kind of hard to feel sorry for the guy but he must be extremely tormented. I wouldn't trade places with him
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"Unfortunately the Left is blinded by its ideals. They simply cannot comprehend the fact that humanity is corrupt and vicious. To them Islam is truly a peaceful religion with no ill will on others. As such when Islam makes advances such as being able to be ruled by their laws or being able to pray in school it isnt another step in the takeover, its another step in the freedoms of a country.

They, the Left, could never admit to the possibility that the "other guy" would be in any way underhanded or driven by an ulterior motive or working towards a nefarious goal. Its simply an impossibility to them. Just as no person on welfare is undeserving when in fact the system is ripe with abuse.

The Left is so full of its own self hatred and loathing for themselves that they cannot admit anyone but their own would be in any way a threat."

Here we see the incoherent ramblings of a psychopath, the deep distrust and disgust that comes to a bigot who fears he can't persuade others of his own particular psychopathology, this special gift and insight he has into the evil of others.
Yeah that's rather obvious. It's kind of hard to feel sorry for the guy but he must be extremely tormented. I wouldn't trade places with him

I'm not tormented at all. Perhaps a bit disgusted at the Lefts inability to open their eyes and see most of todays problems stem from Islam and watch as they still continue to blindly accept them, but certainly not tormented. Waste not your pity on me.

*EDIT*

Was does keep me awake at night is the coming end of the world. I dont believe it will have anything to do with Islam though. I give us 2 to 4 years. As the saying goes "May you live in interesting times".
Indeed we do.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The wonderful thing about fear, Vic, is that you don't have to have it yourself to be affected by it. The psychopaths have a way of effecting the normal by their utter irrationality and imperviousness to reason. And there's always the occasional outbreak of mass psychosis. It was a nice try to tell socio he's nuts like all historical haters, but all those fools hated people who were harmless. Only he sees the really dangerous ones. He is different. He can't be fooled like they were. Socio is a terrified coward and it makes him blind and stupid.

Let?s see; I present a plethora corroborating evidence to bolster my beliefs and instead of countering any of my evidence with your own you spew a tirade that does nothing but mirror you because you don?t even have the guts to consider a word I have said! Then you have the nerve to call me a blind, stupid, terrified, coward.

You really didn't present anything. Instead of presenting evidence that can be used as a basis for drawing a reasonable conclusion, you started with the worldview you wanted and then looked at everything with your preexisting bias. That kind of confirmation bias is extremely common, especially among people who believe in an otherwise unsupportable idea.

You'd make a lousy scientist, because you're doing the same stupid thing the 9/11 conspiracy nuts do. Your starting point is absolute iron-clad certainty in a particular theory, then you look at everything to see if it supports your theory. Those that don't are either twisted to appear to do so or discarded. Because the Internet allows so much information to be accessed, this kind of thing is much easier than it would have been years ago. You can scour hundreds of stories until you find one that sounds good, then point to that like it's absolute proof that you're right, totally ignoring the greater context.

Basically, you're full of crap, and the only way people are going to stop SAYING that is if you stop acting the way you do. You want your arguments to be taken seriously? Make better arguments.

No,

The initial case was made in the first post and I merely attempted to refute or disprove arguments by offering contrary evidence or argument to it, it is calleddebating.

I presented a prediction made some 5 years ago in which even the most intellectually challenged among us could easily correlate what has transpired and is transpiring in the world today to what is on the list. (If you have the ability to stand way back and look at the big picture it is truly startling.)

It was immediately attacked so I bolstered its case by countering every legit criticism with the best facts available. It is exactly what lawyers do in a court room, exactly what great debaters to in fact it is exactly what your messiah Obama does, again that is called debating!

My only error if you can call it an error is I made my case so strong it has left only the ability to denounce messenger by those whom refuse to even consider the possibility of there being any validity whatsoever in it let alone a flaw.

If anyone needs a better argument here is it those that denounce the messenger rather than discuss the topic!

I heard this saying sometime back and I think it applies here; ?Only those without bias should proclaim another?s?

It's not "debating", that's my point. A debate implies presenting an argument that might convince a neutral party. THAT is what lawyers do, that's what great debaters do. What you're doing is making a predetermined "argument" that's only convincing to someone like you who already believes the point being argued.

Think about what your first post was. It presented extremely broad "goals", allegedly part of Islam's plan to take over the world, then you presented a few anecdotal pieces of evidence that might fit into those broad goals...then you argued that this proves those goals are being achieved and that we're all doomed. Other posters quickly pointed out the obvious problem with that argument. By starting with such vague goals, virtually anything could be twisted to appear to fit them. Posters who pointed out that those goals for world domination could be applied equally accurately to any number of groups or religions. And by only presenting a few isolated incidents and then extrapolating that to "prove" a grander conspiracy, you tried to prove that someone is happening on a grand scale by showing that it's not NOT happening at all. To put your argument in another context, it's like arguing that all cars are death traps by pointing out one incident where someone died in a car accident.

Basically it's what I said before...your "argument" is only convincing if your name is Socio and you already believe what you're trying to prove.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Socio



But as the Saudi ?scholar? Suleiman al-Omar declared in June 2004: ?Islam is advancing according to a steady plan. America will be destroyed.?

As you can see reason numbers 5 & 6 are alive and flourshing right before your very eyes in this thread.

Unfortunately the Left is blinded by its ideals. They simply cannot comprehend the fact that humanity is corrupt and vicious. To them Islam is truly a peaceful religion with no ill will on others. As such when Islam makes advances such as being able to be ruled by their laws or being able to pray in school it isnt another step in the takeover, its another step in the freedoms of a country.

They, the Left, could never admit to the possibility that the "other guy" would be in any way underhanded or driven by an ulterior motive or working towards a nefarious goal. Its simply an impossibility to them. Just as no person on welfare is undeserving when in fact the system is ripe with abuse.

The Left is so full of its own self hatred and loathing for themselves that they cannot admit anyone but their own would be in any way a threat.

Well, I can't speak for "the Left", but not being an idiot, I tend to try to judge threats in the most accurate way I can. If there are individuals and groups running around trying to kill me, I think it makes sense to focus on them rather than trying to come up with the most broad enemy I can possibly imagine. There are very few situations where it makes more sense to see the threat as "everyone with trait X" rather than "that guy doing bad stuff". So while people like you are busy worrying about Abdul the cab driver because he happens to be Muslim, I'll worry about Osama bin Laden because he's a terrorist, OK?
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"Unfortunately the Left is blinded by its ideals. They simply cannot comprehend the fact that humanity is corrupt and vicious. To them Islam is truly a peaceful religion with no ill will on others. As such when Islam makes advances such as being able to be ruled by their laws or being able to pray in school it isnt another step in the takeover, its another step in the freedoms of a country.

They, the Left, could never admit to the possibility that the "other guy" would be in any way underhanded or driven by an ulterior motive or working towards a nefarious goal. Its simply an impossibility to them. Just as no person on welfare is undeserving when in fact the system is ripe with abuse.

The Left is so full of its own self hatred and loathing for themselves that they cannot admit anyone but their own would be in any way a threat."

Here we see the incoherent ramblings of a psychopath, the deep distrust and disgust that comes to a bigot who fears he can't persuade others of his own particular psychopathology, this special gift and insight he has into the evil of others.
Yeah that's rather obvious. It's kind of hard to feel sorry for the guy but he must be extremely tormented. I wouldn't trade places with him

I'm not tormented at all. Perhaps a bit disgusted at the Lefts inability to open their eyes and see most of todays problems stem from Islam and watch as they still continue to blindly accept them, but certainly not tormented. Waste not your pity on me.

*EDIT*

Was does keep me awake at night is the coming end of the world. I dont believe it will have anything to do with Islam though. I give us 2 to 4 years. As the saying goes "May you live in interesting times".
Indeed we do.

Well I'll sure sleep better knowing you and Socio have found the courage and inner strength necessary to fight this threat by going on the Internet and shooting your mouth off about it. :roll:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,235
6,338
126
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
"Unfortunately the Left is blinded by its ideals. They simply cannot comprehend the fact that humanity is corrupt and vicious. To them Islam is truly a peaceful religion with no ill will on others. As such when Islam makes advances such as being able to be ruled by their laws or being able to pray in school it isnt another step in the takeover, its another step in the freedoms of a country.

They, the Left, could never admit to the possibility that the "other guy" would be in any way underhanded or driven by an ulterior motive or working towards a nefarious goal. Its simply an impossibility to them. Just as no person on welfare is undeserving when in fact the system is ripe with abuse.

The Left is so full of its own self hatred and loathing for themselves that they cannot admit anyone but their own would be in any way a threat."

Here we see the incoherent ramblings of a psychopath, the deep distrust and disgust that comes to a bigot who fears he can't persuade others of his own particular psychopathology, this special gift and insight he has into the evil of others.
Yeah that's rather obvious. It's kind of hard to feel sorry for the guy but he must be extremely tormented. I wouldn't trade places with him

I'm not tormented at all. Perhaps a bit disgusted at the Lefts inability to open their eyes and see most of todays problems stem from Islam and watch as they still continue to blindly accept them, but certainly not tormented. Waste not your pity on me.

*EDIT*

Was does keep me awake at night is the coming end of the world. I dont believe it will have anything to do with Islam though. I give us 2 to 4 years. As the saying goes "May you live in interesting times".
Indeed we do.

"I'm not tormented but I give the world 2 to 4 years." Hehehehehehehe

Everything you fear has already happened. Life ended for us when we were dealt more pain than a child can handle and blissfully forgot. All the worlds monsters are at the edge of the map where the known world meets the unconscious. All your terror is just a projection of what had to be repressed to survive.