Muslim father and killing your own children?

[Klixxer]

I know some of you out there are muslim and i just had a dicussion with a moron who thinks that that is an ok punishment to keep his children in line.

I want to know from the rest of you.

I need someone to tell me that not all muslim are like this.

I want YOU to speak up and tell this idiot how wrong he is!

 

[Cobalt]

What a misleading title. Please end yourself for it. Last I checked, discpline wasn't bad, and more of it is needed. But keeping your children in line has nothing to do with killing them.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: cobalt
What a misleading title. Please end yourself for it. Last I checked, discpline wasn't bad, and more of it is needed. But keeping your children in line has nothing to do with killing them.

I am talking about honor killings, last time i checked discipline had nothing to do with killing your children.

Maybe that is what you do to your children but last i checked threats of death and actual killings were illegal.

Not to mention pretty fvcked.

 

[Aimster]

I never heard of such a thing from any Muslim out there. How one raises his own child like that has nothing to do with the religion of Islam. He might be Muslim but his crazy ideas has nothing to do with the religion he believes in. He is just a wacko.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I never heard of such a thing from any Muslim out there. How one raises his own child like that has nothing to do with the religion of Islam. He might be Muslim but his crazy ideas has nothing to do with the religion he believes in. He is just a wacko.

*I* know it does not, but he is muslim and does NOT.

Thank you.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Aimster
I never heard of such a thing from any Muslim out there. How one raises his own child like that has nothing to do with the religion of Islam. He might be Muslim but his crazy ideas has nothing to do with the religion he believes in. He is just a wacko.

*I* know it does not, but he is muslim and does NOT.

Thank you.

I know "you" don't think that. You're an open minded person and that post was mainly for the closed minded people here who have a hate for a religion they know nothing about.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Aimster
I never heard of such a thing from any Muslim out there. How one raises his own child like that has nothing to do with the religion of Islam. He might be Muslim but his crazy ideas has nothing to do with the religion he believes in. He is just a wacko.

*I* know it does not, but he is muslim and does NOT.

Thank you.

I know "you" don't think that. You're an open minded person and that post was mainly for the closed minded people here who have a hate for a religion they know nothing about.

I have never had anything against muslims but this idiot is trying his best to prove me wrong and blame his sick ideas on his religion.

I just want you and the rest of the muslims here to tell this fvcked up individual that being a Muslim has nothing to do with it, i know you are not like him and i want to show him that there are plenty of muslims out there who are NOT like him.

It is not to bash Islam, i think you know that i would not do that Aimster, i have been one of the defenders of it here.

This guy is obviously a mental case a fund-a-mental case. and i want to prove him and everyone like him wrong.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Aimster
I never heard of such a thing from any Muslim out there. How one raises his own child like that has nothing to do with the religion of Islam. He might be Muslim but his crazy ideas has nothing to do with the religion he believes in. He is just a wacko.

*I* know it does not, but he is muslim and does NOT.

Thank you.

I know "you" don't think that. You're an open minded person and that post was mainly for the closed minded people here who have a hate for a religion they know nothing about.

I have never had anything against muslims but this idiot is trying his best to prove me wrong and blame his sick ideas on his religion.

I just want you and the rest of the muslims here to tell this fvcked up individual that being a Muslim has nothing to do with it, i know you are not like him and i want to show him that there are plenty of muslims out there who are NOT like him.

It is not to bash Islam, i think you know that i would not do that Aimster, i have been one of the defenders of it here.

This guy is obviously a mental case a fund-a-mental case. and i want to prove him and everyone like him wrong.

Klixx I know you wouldn't bash Islam or any religion.

Ask your friend where in the Quran it gives him the idea he can punish his children like this. Might be a culture thing, but I can't name any countries that I know that have these rules. In many Arab countries the father is not to be disrespected (yelled at, disobyed). Does your friend have a daugther? I know Afghans do not let their daugthers date and in many cases they are caught doing so and the punishment is no more freedom for them. There was a case in California where an Afghan girl was raped so the father killed his daugther over that since she was not a virgin anymore and put her head on a mailbox. Obviously that family had some psychological problems, but I think it has to do with the lack of education. Nobody kills their own flesh, but you see it happening all the time in today's society for reasons as little as $5 or Jesus told them to do it.

And do not kill your children out of fear of poverty; We shall provide for them and for you. Truly, the killing of them is a great sin. (17:31) ...When the female child who was buried alive is asked for what crime she was killed. (81:8-9)
...That they will not steal nor commit zina nor kill their children....(60:12)

Murder is the second greatest sin for Muslims. The first is not believing in God.

I can rape your wife, kill your family and you have no right to murder me according to the rules of the Quran. My punishment will be received when I leave this life. This life is a test for Muslims and by killing another soul you are failing the test.

Your friend wouldn't happen to have a daugther by any chance would he?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Aimster
I never heard of such a thing from any Muslim out there. How one raises his own child like that has nothing to do with the religion of Islam. He might be Muslim but his crazy ideas has nothing to do with the religion he believes in. He is just a wacko.

*I* know it does not, but he is muslim and does NOT.

Thank you.

I know "you" don't think that. You're an open minded person and that post was mainly for the closed minded people here who have a hate for a religion they know nothing about.

I have never had anything against muslims but this idiot is trying his best to prove me wrong and blame his sick ideas on his religion.

I just want you and the rest of the muslims here to tell this fvcked up individual that being a Muslim has nothing to do with it, i know you are not like him and i want to show him that there are plenty of muslims out there who are NOT like him.

It is not to bash Islam, i think you know that i would not do that Aimster, i have been one of the defenders of it here.

This guy is obviously a mental case a fund-a-mental case. and i want to prove him and everyone like him wrong.

Klixx I know you wouldn't bash Islam or any religion.

Ask your friend where in the Quran it gives him the idea he can punish his children like this. Might be a culture thing, but I can't name any countries that I know that have these rules. In many Arab countries the father is not to be disrespected (yelled at, disobyed). Does your friend have a daugther? I know Afghans do not let their daugthers date and in many cases they are caught doing so and the punishment is no more freedom for them. There was a case in California where an Afghan girl was raped so the father killed his daugther over that since she was not a virgin anymore and put her head on a mailbox. Obviously that family had some psychological problems, but I think it has to do with the lack of education. Nobody kills their own flesh, but you see it happening all the time in today's society for reasons as little as $5 or Jesus told them to do it.

And do not kill your children out of fear of poverty; We shall provide for them and for you. Truly, the killing of them is a great sin. (17:31) ...When the female child who was buried alive is asked for what crime she was killed. (81:8-9)
...That they will not steal nor commit zina nor kill their children....(60:12)

Murder is the second greatest sin for Muslims. The first is not believing in God.

I can rape your wife, kill your family and you have no right to murder me according to the rules of the Quran. My punishment will be received when I leave this life. This life is a test for Muslims and by killing another soul you are failing the test.

Your friend wouldn't happen to have a daugther by any chance would he?

Thank you for your reply Aimster, it is nice to know that people understand what i am saying around here, thank you for understanding that i am not making this thread to bash Islam, that was the first thing i thought someone might think.

No, he has no children and i REALLY hope he never does.

Honorary killings are on the rise in europe and Islam is used a the no1 excuse a close second is Islamic upbringing or environment influenced by Islam if you so will.

I REALLY thank you for your post. I hope it teaches him something (him and others)

BTW, he is not a friend of mine, he is a poster from this forum.

And he believes the Taliban regime was a good one and has a probem with me fighting it.

 

[carldon]

I can't say about the future, but for now, if my son were a psychopath or something of that sort, I'd kill him myself if it was the only way to prevent him from hurting someone else.

CD.

 

[The Green Bean]

Islam teaches not spanking children let alone killing them. You can't force someone into doing something anyways. First explain them why they must do this that and not even shout at them.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: carldon
I can't say about the future, but for now, if my son were a psychopath or something of that sort, I'd kill him myself if it was the only way to prevent him from hurting someone else.

CD.

just send us the pics when you do that. Its either you are mad or you dont love your children.

 

[carldon]

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: carldon
I can't say about the future, but for now, if my son were a psychopath or something of that sort, I'd kill him myself if it was the only way to prevent him from hurting someone else.

CD.

just send us the pics when you do that. Its either you are mad or you dont love your children.

Think about it from somebody else's perpective. If the only way to stop your child from hurting someone else's son/daughter was to kill him or her, what would you do? I love my children very much, but I dont let emotions blind my conscience. Think for a moment before you judge someone.

CD.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: carldon

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: carldon
I can't say about the future, but for now, if my son were a psychopath or something of that sort, I'd kill him myself if it was the only way to prevent him from hurting someone else.

CD.

just send us the pics when you do that. Its either you are mad or you dont love your children.

Think about it from somebody else's perpective. If the only way to stop your child from hurting someone else's son/daughter was to kill him or her, what would you do? I love my children very much, but I dont let emotions blind my conscience. Think for a moment before you judge someone.

CD.

It would be a great thing to do but impossible that a human can do it "so that it does not harm others" JIMHO.

 

[Lovepig]

Islam teaches not spanking children let alone killing them.

If this is true, this could be the problem with so much of the ME population. No wonder they are so screwed up so much. They need regular spankings as kids!

Come to think of it, it may be the problem with much of America too...

 

[f95toli]

We have had a few cases of honour killings in Sweden so it has been discussed a lot. As far as I understand it has nothing to do with religion (and in one case the family was christian) but is more related to culture. There are a few countries where your sentence will be reduced if you reason for killing a member of your family was honour (Turkey is one example, this was recently changed as a part of reforms that EU demanded before negotiotions about memebership could start) but is never legal AFAIK.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Lovepig

Islam teaches not spanking children let alone killing them.

If this is true, this could be the problem with so much of the ME population. No wonder they are so screwed up so much. They need regular spankings as kids!

Come to think of it, it may be the problem with much of America too...

Nope giving a good explaination always works better. Too bad the "people" of the ME dont ave the same views. But yes this has more to do with local culture than a religion as a whole. Besides every one of the 60+ sects of Islam have different beleifs in almost everything.

 

[maluckey]

I once dated an Albanian girl, and her uncle had previously threatened to kill her for dishonoring the family by dating am infidel.

She was understandably concerned, and explained that it was not unheard of in her country for these killings to take place. Our time seeing each other ended abruptly when her uncle became suspicious of our relationship being more than casual contact in passing She explained to me that it was more a culture thing than anything else, though the familily dishonor is often cited in their religious community before the family gets involved.

I was never under the impression tha it was a universal Muslim thing, or even a universal Albanian thing, just in some communities, and most of them, very backward.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: carldon

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: carldon
I can't say about the future, but for now, if my son were a psychopath or something of that sort, I'd kill him myself if it was the only way to prevent him from hurting someone else.

CD.

just send us the pics when you do that. Its either you are mad or you dont love your children.

Think about it from somebody else's perpective. If the only way to stop your child from hurting someone else's son/daughter was to kill him or her, what would you do? I love my children very much, but I dont let emotions blind my conscience. Think for a moment before you judge someone.

CD.

Couldn't you just turn him in to the police? Or some sort of psychiatric place?

 

[carldon]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: carldon

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: carldon
I can't say about the future, but for now, if my son were a psychopath or something of that sort, I'd kill him myself if it was the only way to prevent him from hurting someone else.

CD.

just send us the pics when you do that. Its either you are mad or you dont love your children.

Think about it from somebody else's perpective. If the only way to stop your child from hurting someone else's son/daughter was to kill him or her, what would you do? I love my children very much, but I dont let emotions blind my conscience. Think for a moment before you judge someone.

CD.

Couldn't you just turn him in to the police? Or some sort of psychiatric place?

I could if he's not over 18, but after that its not all that easy coming up with evidence to convince the authorities. Besides, from where I come, justice is never as easy as it is here. If you want justice, you'd have to get it yourself. I can give people a second chance, a chance to change, but I cannot stand by and watch them do something to hurt somebody.

I've pondered over this thing in my mind, and I always wonder if its the right thing. Is it?

CD.

 

[Sultan]

Klixxer is talking about his conversations with me.

I calmly tried to explain to him that adultery/fornication is the second biggest sin in Islam (and not Murder as Aimster said) and the punishment for the above is stoning to death (or capital punishment if you like) / 100 whips. I also tried to explain to him that if my children were found guilty of either of the previous sins, I will have no problem carrying out the punishment.

In his extreme anger, rather than understand what I am saying, he has twisted what I said and presented what in his own mind he perceived what I said. I also specifically told him that honor killings have nothing to do with Islam. I also gave him an example of punishment carried out in Pakistan in the name of 'honor', which was a horrendous example of honor punishments.

I did not find the Taliban regime as bad as the media portrayed it, which is a far cry from saying it was good. The media painted it as an oppressive regime blah blah blah. Within a matter of 10 years, after years of civil war and the Soviet occupation, the Taliban got more or less rid of poppy cultivation. They also abolished the practice of women exchange to settle tribal disputes which was (and now is) a common practice in rural areas. Klixxer described punishments carried out by the 'Taliban' to which I replied that communcation between those who headed the Tabliban movement and those in the rural areas was not available and therefore in almost all cases, such punishments were not given out by the Taliban leaders. For this, I also gave him examples of brutal punishments given out by tribal Jirgas (courts) in Pakistan, which acted completely independant of the central government, in spite of Pakistan having the necessary infrastructure of communication.

Ofcourse, Rome was not built in a day. To expect miracles from the Taliban within a generation is a laughable presumption. Its not like Afghanistan is better off under Mr. Karzai. Countless tales of rape, murder and pillage have been heard from those who have witnessed it first-hand in Pakistan. This however has NEVER been reported by the media.

Aimster. You are right that rape has no punishment laid down by Quran. However, Sunnah, the second source of Islamic Law proscribes stoning to death as the punishment of rape.

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"

The Qur'an legislates the death penalty for murder, although forgiveness and compassion are strongly encouraged. The murder victim's family is given a choice to either insist on the death penalty, or to pardon the perpetrator and accept monetary compensation for their loss (2:178).

Hope the above helps.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I calmly tried to explain to him that adultery/fornication is the second biggest sin in Islam (and not Murder as Aimster said) and the punishment for the above is stoning to death (or capital punishment if you like) / 100 whips. I also tried to explain to him that if my children were found guilty of either of the previous sins, I will have no problem carrying out the punishment.

Everyone, meet our local extremist!

 

[alchemize]

I calmly tried to explain to him that adultery/fornication is the second biggest sin in Islam (and not Murder as Aimster said) and the punishment for the above is stoning to death (or capital punishment if you like) / 100 whips. I also tried to explain to him that if my children were found guilty of either of the previous sins, I will have no problem carrying out the punishment.

Klixxer, you were right on the money.

This person is barely above an animal. That might even be a compliment (or an insult to animals).

PS Sultan 2 situations:
1) Your daughter screws around on her husband. You stone her to death?
2) Your son screws around on his wife. You stone him to death?

I challenge anyone to find one single instance of #2 happening...

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

I calmly tried to explain to him that adultery/fornication is the second biggest sin in Islam (and not Murder as Aimster said) and the punishment for the above is stoning to death (or capital punishment if you like) / 100 whips. I also tried to explain to him that if my children were found guilty of either of the previous sins, I will have no problem carrying out the punishment.

Everyone, meet our local extremist!

To call following an injunction of the religion as being extremist, so be it. Would you like me to quote the Quran and Sunnah regarding the above?

Please read the following, if you wish to know more about Islamic laws regarding the above:

Link

Hope this helps.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

I calmly tried to explain to him that adultery/fornication is the second biggest sin in Islam (and not Murder as Aimster said) and the punishment for the above is stoning to death (or capital punishment if you like) / 100 whips. I also tried to explain to him that if my children were found guilty of either of the previous sins, I will have no problem carrying out the punishment.

Everyone, meet our local extremist!

To call following an injunction of the religion as being extremist, so be it. Would you like me to quote the Quran and Sunnah regarding the above?

Please read the following, if you wish to know more about Islamic laws regarding the above:

Link

Hope this helps.

Sorry, I don't need to read how you would try to justify killing your children because they decided not to be an extremist fundie like yourself.