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Muslim Dies in Guantanamo Prison after 11 Yrs in Custody; No Charges

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Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,965
7
81
1. It's a shame that they were so gungho about putting people in Gitmo in the first place. Anyone who goes through it that didn't have a reason to hate the US before, certainly does now.

2. I bet there was some intelligence on this guy indicating he was a bad guy, but they may not have brought it to the trial because they didn't want to reveal classified information (ie, the identity of an informant or something similar)
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,961
3,471
126
I'm starting to consider my position on this... is not what I would have liked.

What right do we have to keep detainees?
Are they prisoners of war, what war?

Much as I want Jihadists to rot in hell, our country needs a due process for ensuring people are treated equally and fairly. Something our people can publicly vote to uphold, and be accountable for.

How we treat people in Gitmo may someday be a mirror into how we treat ourselves. I look at what we've done this past decade and I find it lacking.
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
I agree. These illegal combatants should NOT be at Gitmo. They should be put up against a wall an executed.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
Why are people outraged over this yet say nothing about all the other innocent Americans who are in jail and haven't received justice.
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,185
107
106
Why are people outraged over this yet say nothing about all the other innocent Americans who are in jail and haven't received justice.
Because the (fundamentalist) muslims are a bunch of vagina bleeds and America has hurt their feelings, therefore more sympathy lies with them as they blow us up and not with us as we get blown up. Makes sense, right?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,583
431
126
Damn. Died in jail after being held for eleven years without a trial. There should really be charges brought against the American government for allowing this to happen.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
10,913
1,063
126
The problem is they only forbade him funds to move the prisoners into the US proper. He could easily have moved them to other US bases around the world. Instead, he chose to break one of his major campaign promises.
The problem there is that it's adhering to the letter of his words but not the spirit. He also could have had a ceremony closing Gitmo, then immediately opened another base at the exact same location with the same prisoners and same personnel and called it "Taunguanamo". But it would be no different and would be the same as just moving the prisoners around. It's the lipstick on a pig approach and really isn't any better or different.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Some dude died without due process or ever being charged? That's terrible and those responsible should be brought up on charges.
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
Damn. Died in jail after being held for eleven years without a trial. There should really be charges brought against the American government for allowing this to happen.
LOL!

You need to do some reading and a bit of studying on the Laws of War.

p.s., How y'all doing with that freedom of speech thing up there? Still don't have any do ya?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
LOL!

You need to do some reading and a bit of studying on the Laws of War.

p.s., How y'all doing with that freedom of speech thing up there? Still don't have any do ya?
LOL

First off, yes it was just stupid of Trip to bring up Canada in this thread as any sort of defense against what's going on there .
But when he threw this at me a couple of weeks ago, and I asked him what he was talking about he answered he did not know. LOL

Anyways hows that Freedom of the Press (speech?) down there Trip? Still don't have any?

How's that economic freedom down there? Still don't have any?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/18/canada-rises-to-top-five-in-world-economic-freedom-ranking-as-u-s-plummets-to-18th/

Oh wait I know what your going to say. This is all Egypt's and Obama's fault lol
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
LOL

First off, yes it was just stupid of Trip to bring up Canada in this thread as any sort of defense against what's going on there .
But when he threw this at me a couple of weeks ago, and I asked him what he was talking about he answered he did not know. LOL

Anyways hows that Freedom of the Press (speech?) down there Trip? Still don't have any?

How's that economic freedom down there? Still don't have any?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/18/canada-rises-to-top-five-in-world-economic-freedom-ranking-as-u-s-plummets-to-18th/

Oh wait I know what your going to say. This is all Egypt's and Obama's fault lol
The poster was commenting on what's happening in America but lives in Canada. I would ask the poster spend some time fixing that government first.

I know exactly what is happening with freedom of speech in Canada.....It's being made to conform to PC speech.

As far as freedom of the press is concerned here in America.....we don't have any.

I hope I have answered your questions.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,602
3,109
126
Damn. Died in jail after being held for eleven years without a trial. There should really be charges brought against the American government for allowing this to happen.
hahahahahaaaaa out of the mouth of a Canadian...lol
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
The poster was commenting on what's happening in America but lives in Canada. I would ask the poster spend some time fixing that government first.
I can see just on the first page you can't follow your own advice.
But I will remind you next time


hahahahahaaaaa out of the mouth of a Canadian...lol
In 7 years I have never seen you contribute anything but quoting someone else and adding your lololololol or your thumbsup
That Canadian adds more to this forum then a thousand Yogis could muster
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I should add 158 Canadian men and women have gave their lives helping to protect the US from the Taliban.
Canada has opened itself to any consequences from American actions dealing with the War on Terror.
I think that gives us the right to at least make some comments on a message board
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,294
1
76
We don't know why he was being held, that doesn't mean there wasn't a reason, it means the reason is classified.

You can't look at some intermediate point in time and decide that's the final decision, its misleading.

He wasn't cleared for release. If he was, he would have been released. He was not being held without a hearing within our system of justice, that's false.

The fact is it was determined he should remain in custody, then he died.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
The problem there is that it's adhering to the letter of his words but not the spirit. He also could have had a ceremony closing Gitmo, then immediately opened another base at the exact same location with the same prisoners and same personnel and called it "Taunguanamo". But it would be no different and would be the same as just moving the prisoners around. It's the lipstick on a pig approach and really isn't any better or different.
I agree to a point, but he made the promise and chose not to fulfill it. He could have closed the base and moved the prisoners to Germany...or any other location where the US has a prison. A section of an aircraft carrier could easily be converted to a group of holding cells.

My personal view would be that he should have held military tribunals for all people held there and release the ones who are cleared. Those who are not should be given a military trial to determine guilt. Military trials are quite fair. Obama, though, decided not to do these things.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
We don't know why he was being held, that doesn't mean there wasn't a reason, it means the reason is classified.

You can't look at some intermediate point in time and decide that's the final decision, its misleading.

He wasn't cleared for release. If he was, he would have been released. He was not being held without a hearing within our system of justice, that's false.

The fact is it was determined he should remain in custody, then he died.
Was he seen by a tribunal and they decided he needed to be held as an illegal enemy combatant? They may have, I really do not know.

As an aside, another Geneva Convention needs to be conviened to create rules on what to do with Illegal Enemy Combatants. When they first few were made, no one dreamed there would be many tens of thousands of illegal enemy combatants so they did not bother to create rules on what to do with them. We need rules on what to do so that we can punish those who violate them. Without rules, there can be no punishment for violation since there can be no violation.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,294
1
76
I agree to a point, but he made the promise and chose not to fulfill it. He could have closed the base and moved the prisoners to Germany...or any other location where the US has a prison. A section of an aircraft carrier could easily be converted to a group of holding cells.
What would be the point ?

There is no real issue with Gitmo as a location. The issue was AG Gonzalez and that Chinese American legal guy who had legal theories about Presidential power that led to abuses.

They are gone, and their most aggregious excesses were corrected, as far as I know.

The fact this guy died doesn't have any particular significance that I see ?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
What would be the point ?

There is no real issue with Gitmo as a location. The issue was AG Gonzalez and that Chinese American legal guy who had legal theories about Presidential power that led to abuses.

They are gone, and their most aggregious excesses were corrected, as far as I know.

The fact this guy died doesn't have any particular significance that I see ?
My personal view would be that he should have held military tribunals for all people held there and release the ones who are cleared. Those who are not should be given a military trial to determine guilt. Military trials are quite fair. Obama, though, decided not to do these things.

Obama could at least honor his promise, though, since the only person who can stop him from doing so is Obama himself.
 

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