Musk says we dont need Nato

[brycejones]

I know how it works, and I don't think we need to spend a trillion dollars a year on defense.

What do you want the military to be able to do? Counter China on the western side of the pacific or the eastern side?

 

[pauldun170]

You mean the one time it was invoked?
The U.S spends twice the total of every other member nation combined. Just under a trillion dollars. It's time to renegotiate that deal.

Are you saying that procurement lifestyles and doctrines of Nato nations should follow the US?

If the united stated is in position where it started a war in the Middle East, wore out all of its equipment and now needs to replenish, revitalize it's military to maintain offensive and containment capability in the middle east and now, combined with natural cost of weapons life cycle expenditures (example, replacing a 40 year old platform such as tank/ship/aircraft) resulting in increased defense spending,
Should a nato partner abandoned their procurement plans (let's say they have equipment still mid cycle) and just spend money to replace things that don't need replacing or arbitrarily increase force size?
Should each nato member change their doctrine? Does Croatia need to step up and build a submarine fleet?
Should Luxemburg start up a stealth bomber program?
Should Spain create a nuclear triad?
Should montenegro build a bluewater navy?

What should Nato members be spending their money on?

If they increased spending, but instead used it on military personnel compensation instead of procurement of US produced military equipment, would that suffice?
What if Norway increased force size but mandated that the increase must be staffed with trans people, would you no longer complain?

 

[MrSquished]

I think the US should leave NATO right away, because it's inevitable, and will help speed up the process of all the decent democracies left to totally understand that the US is not only not an ally anymore, the US is an adversary, and to act appropriately.

 

[WelshBloke]

I know how it works, and I don't think we need to spend a trillion dollars a year on defense.

Which bits of the American defence budget should be cut then?
"Defund the US military" wasn't a cry I was expecting from the conservatives but I guess that these are strange days.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

NATO is a money pit. The EU now has the resources to look after it's own defense, there is no reason for the U.S. to be involved any more.

Better than a corpse pit.

 

[nakedfrog]

Which bits of the American defence budget should be cut then?
"Defund the US military" wasn't a cry I was expecting from the conservatives but I guess that these are strange days.

They'll tell you whatever it is that Great Leader tells them to think.
The instant a Democrat is in charge again (if ever) there will be shrieking and howling about how they're leaving us defenseless by not allocating more to the military.

 

[iRONic]

I know how it works

Ahahahahahahah!!!

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[feralkid]

We really don’t need Musk.

We never really did.

 

[pauldun170]

You mean the one time it was invoked?
The U.S spends twice the total of every other member nation combined. Just under a trillion dollars. It's time to renegotiate that deal.

Deal for what?
Spend more on their military?
In exhange for what?

Are you saying that member states who do not Spend the fixed percentage on a yearly basis should be removed from the alliance?
What if they have proven combat readiness and have justification for spending on a given year?

If last year a country wrapped up procurement of a replacement aircraft for an airline and supplies and now as a nato member will handle all elint for a specific region, should they be booted because if their spending is lower than average for the following year?

Why are NATO members involved with Iraq operations? Should the renegotiated deal include credits for having to support US operations that have zero to do with NATOs charter? Why are NATO members being used for the offensive operations of the United States in the middle east or support operations world wide ?

Why is the United States threatening NATO members who have shed blood fighting for US interest instead of "common defense"

 

[Pens1566]

"I know how NATO works"

Proceeds to shit all over the thread with statements that show you don't know anything about how NATO works.

 

[Brainonska511]

"I know how [name a topic] works"

Proceeds to shit all over the thread with statements that show you don't know anything about how [name a topic] works.

FTFY, so you can now use this in any other thread he posts in.

 

[Jaskalas]

I don't think we need to spend a trillion dollars a year on defense.

Not to say we did not and do not still fuck up.....
But we have maintained a strong military as a peace dividend. To buy a more stable world in which there are LESS nuclear weapons, LESS wars, LESS Americans dying, and MORE profitable trade routes.

You say fuck off to NATO and to the US's position in the world, you say goodbye to all those benefits.
Your vision is MORE nuclear weapons, MORE wars, MORE Americans dying, and LESS profitable trade.

You want a weaker America in a more sickly world.

 

[Muse]

If the US leaves NATO, that would help clear the path to Ukraine gaining entry. Then, maybe, hopefully, after the Trump maniacal regime is over and another party gets control of the White House and Congress (Democrats, are you up to it?), the US can apply for membership.

NATO is the greatest political alliance of all time. No, I'm not a historian, but I figure it's beyond contesting.

 

[Muse]

NATO is a money pit. The EU now has the resources to look after it's own defense, there is no reason for the U.S. to be involved any more.

You're a goddamned isolationist. Don't you know that has always ended disastrously?

 

[hal2kilo]

Except for the times we needed nato.
Amount of times nato needed us?

Elon Musk again says the US should leave NATO, saying it 'doesn't make sense' for the US to pay for Europe's defense

Trump has repeatedly criticized Europe's defense spending and previously threatened to leave NATO if allies didn't pay more.

www.yahoo.com

Who voted for Musk.

 

[WelshBloke]

They'll tell you whatever it is that Great Leader tells them to think.
The instant a Democrat is in charge again (if ever) there will be shrieking and howling about how they're leaving us defenseless by not allocating more to the military.

I'm fairly convinced that people think that NATO has it's own standing army that members pay for in addition to their normal defense spending.

 

[Brainonska511]

I'm fairly convinced that people think that NATO has it's own standing army that members pay for in addition to their normal defense spending.

Just like people think foreign aid is a huge chunk of the budget when it's a miniscule amount.

 

[Pens1566]

If Leon doesn't want to be part of NATO, he can fuck off back to South Africa.

 

[pauldun170]

EU chief says member countries must use a new defense loan to buy European, not American

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen says EU countries must purchase military equipment made in Europe under a new loan plan meant to help the continent provide for its own security.

apnews.com

Progress

 

[HomerJS]

Maybe the Democrats should call Trump's bluff. Say we will give you the votes to exit from the NATO treaty. The rest of NATO gives Ukraine express entry into NATO. I can see one or two countries getting in the way like Hungary.

Could work?

 

[pauldun170]

Q. Europe is preparing a significant financial package for defence. If the AD government is re-elected, will it approve the purchase of F-35 aircraft?

“The F-16s are at the end of their cycle and we will have to think about their replacement. However, we cannot ignore the geopolitical environment in our choices. The recent position of the United States, in the context of NATO and in the international geostrategic plan, must make us think about the best options, because the predictability of our allies is a greater asset to take into account. We must believe that, in all circumstances, these allies will be on our side. There are several options that must be considered, particularly in the context of European production and also taking into account the return that these options may have on the Portuguese economy.”

Q. The Air Force wants this replacement to be made with F-35s, which are American-made aircraft. What you are saying is that, due to the change in American foreign policy, it is less likely that Portugal will replace the F-16s with an American aircraft?

“The world has already changed. There were elections in the US, there was a position in relation to NATO and the world, stated by the Secretary of Defense and by the US President himself, which must also be taken into account in Europe and in what concerns Portugal. And this ally of ours, which has always been predictable over the decades, could bring limitations to use, maintenance, components, and everything that has to do with ensuring that aircraft will be operational and used in all types of scenarios.”

Lets see if they actually follow through

Portugal wobbles on buying F-35s because of Trump

The country’s defense ministry says that the Lockheed Martin F-35s “were not ruled out.”

www.politico.eu

 

[cytg111]

You mean the one time it was invoked?
The U.S spends twice the total of every other member nation combined. Just under a trillion dollars. It's time to renegotiate that deal.

YES DOG WHAT YOU NEED IS ANOTHER NEAR PEER!!!!!!! Fucking dumbass. Well you asked for it and now you gonna get it. IDIOT.

 

[cytg111]

Lets see if they actually follow through

Portugal wobbles on buying F-35s because of Trump

The country’s defense ministry says that the Lockheed Martin F-35s “were not ruled out.”

www.politico.eu

Of course! Its Saab all the way. Cause fuck Trumps America!


edit: dont you fucking realize this is what Trump is doing? He is removing you from the map from within you fucking doltz.