Music - why is 4/4 so common?

[spidey07]

The overwhelming majority of music is in 4/4. Or even more has 4 beats per measure. What I can't come up with is a reason why.

Why is 1-2-3-4 so natural? Does it have something to do with taking steps? My only guess is nomads on animals way back sung songs to the beat of the animal they were riding which would be a distinct 4 count. From there it just kind of stuck.

It seems if you even look at primitive tribes with little to no exposure to music from other tribes or people there is a distinct 4 count and repeat. Any ideas?

 

[Modular]

Too much talent needed to play at an alternative time...look at Carter Beauford and Danny Carey. They take common 4/4 times and force them into some otherworldy time just to make them challenging.

 

[Ns1]

it's easily broken down (by half) and sped up (2x)? no idea otherwise

Just seems more logical going 1/2/4/8/16/32 vs...

1/3/6/12/etc


danny carey pwns.

 

[Babbles]

I would imagine because of it's simplicity. It would make sense that if you were to take a whole note, that you would divide it into halfs (half note) and then half again (quarter note) and half again (eighth note) and so forth. I think 6/8 notes sorta done as triplets is easy and makes sense, but I don't think it's as natural as something like 4/4 or 2/2.

 

[spidey07]

Another theory? Could it have anything to do that we once walked on all 4s and that natural rhythm is still there?

 

[randay]

mixing/dj purposes?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: randay
mixing/dj purposes?

Go back....way back. Even Mozart, Beethoven, etc did a lot in 4/4. Or at the very least 4 beats per measure.

There had to be a reason why music evolved this way and why common time is so "common".

 

[hiromizu]

There's probably little scientific reason but it feels natural to most people. That said, I wrote an instrumental guitar piece in 13/8 that throws off my drummer all the time.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: hiromizu
There's probably little scientific reason but it feels natural to most people. That said, I wrote an instrumental guitar piece in 13/8 that throws off my drummer all the time.

That's just not very nice. In fact, that's downright cruel.

 

[sandorski]

I saw an Educational Documentary/Show about Music one time that examined the History/Evolution of Music. I don't recall any details and I'm not sure if it said anything about 4/4 timing, but it was very interesting and worth watching. Can't help you there either, maybe it was RadioLab that examined it, try a Google for it. If it was RadioLab, then it wasn't in Video form, but it seems like something RadioLab would do a show on.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Another theory? Could it have anything to do that we once walked on all 4s and that natural rhythm is still there?

I wouldn't think that's likely; any evolutionary link to walking on all fours is so far removed it seems such a remote possibility that there is any sort of tie. I also am not so sure that way back when there was any sort of selective benefit to have 4/4 rhythm as some prehistoric animal. That and you can have 'rhythm' with probably any music meter.

I play the Shakuhachi, which is a Japanese bamboo flute, and their music (derived from some older Chinese music) does not have time meter such as we see in the Western world. Therefore from my limited experience with this type of music there does not seem to be any 'universal' time measurement shared with Western music.

Again, I would think that it's just very simply and straightforward to have a 4/4 meter.

 

[DangerAardvark]

If you wanted you could just write music without any time signature. It just so happens 4/4 or 2/4 matches the phrasing of a lot songs.

 

[gorcorps]

It's been like that for a while, and that's just the easiest way to go about things these days I guess.

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: Modular
Too much talent needed to play at an alternative time...look at Carter Beauford and Danny Carey. They take common 4/4 times and force them into some otherworldy time just to make them challenging.

Unless you consider music from outside the Western tradition, where 5, 7 and other "irrational" time signatures are common.

This, to me anyway, points toward the cultural situatedness of musical time, as Babbles addresses in his post on shakuhachi.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: spidey07
Another theory? Could it have anything to do that we once walked on all 4s and that natural rhythm is still there?

I wouldn't think that's likely; any evolutionary link to walking on all fours is so far removed it seems such a remote possibility that there is any sort of tie. I also am not so sure that way back when there was any sort of selective benefit to have 4/4 rhythm as some prehistoric animal. That and you can have 'rhythm' with probably any music meter.

I play the Shakuhachi, which is a Japanese bamboo flute, and their music (derived from some older Chinese music) does not have time meter such as we see in the Western world. Therefore from my limited experience with this type of music there does not seem to be any 'universal' time measurement shared with Western music.

Again, I would think that it's just very simply and straightforward to have a 4/4 meter.

Well japenese didn't ride horses or animals as far as I know. So there may be some merit to the riding an animal leading to 4 beats being so familiar. We'd have to contrast this with chinese music, india, russia, etc because I'm sure they rode animals not being constrained to a small island.

And as far as anthropology - having sex seems very natural as are a whole lot of things that our cortex isn't aware of. a couple million years of walking on all 4s vs 40K of two tells me it isn't that far removed.

Don't monkeys move their head to a beat if they hear one for a while?

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: spidey07
Another theory? Could it have anything to do that we once walked on all 4s and that natural rhythm is still there?

I wouldn't think that's likely; any evolutionary link to walking on all fours is so far removed it seems such a remote possibility that there is any sort of tie. I also am not so sure that way back when there was any sort of selective benefit to have 4/4 rhythm as some prehistoric animal. That and you can have 'rhythm' with probably any music meter.

I play the Shakuhachi, which is a Japanese bamboo flute, and their music (derived from some older Chinese music) does not have time meter such as we see in the Western world. Therefore from my limited experience with this type of music there does not seem to be any 'universal' time measurement shared with Western music.

Again, I would think that it's just very simply and straightforward to have a 4/4 meter.

Well japenese didn't ride horses or animals as far as I know. So there may be some merit to the riding an animal leading to 4 beats being so familiar. We'd have to contrast this with chinese music, india, russia, etc because I'm sure they rode animals not being constrained to a small island.

And as far as anthropology - having sex seems very natural as are a whole lot of things that our cortex isn't aware of. a couple million years of walking on all 4s vs 40K of two tells me it isn't that far removed.

Don't monkeys move their head to a beat if they hear one for a while?

But the walking/running of horses doesn't follow a simple 1 2 3 4 pattern with evenly spaced beats.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: spidey07
Another theory? Could it have anything to do that we once walked on all 4s and that natural rhythm is still there?

I wouldn't think that's likely; any evolutionary link to walking on all fours is so far removed it seems such a remote possibility that there is any sort of tie. I also am not so sure that way back when there was any sort of selective benefit to have 4/4 rhythm as some prehistoric animal. That and you can have 'rhythm' with probably any music meter.

I play the Shakuhachi, which is a Japanese bamboo flute, and their music (derived from some older Chinese music) does not have time meter such as we see in the Western world. Therefore from my limited experience with this type of music there does not seem to be any 'universal' time measurement shared with Western music.

Again, I would think that it's just very simply and straightforward to have a 4/4 meter.

Well japenese didn't ride horses or animals as far as I know. So there may be some merit to the riding an animal leading to 4 beats being so familiar. We'd have to contrast this with chinese music, india, russia, etc because I'm sure they rode animals not being constrained to a small island.

And as far as anthropology - having sex seems very natural as are a whole lot of things that our cortex isn't aware of. a couple million years of walking on all 4s vs 40K of two tells me it isn't that far removed.

Don't monkeys move their head to a beat if they hear one for a while?

I think horse gaits vary between 2/4, 4/4 and 3/4 depending on whether they're trotting or cantering or etc.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: sobriquet
But the walking/running of horses doesn't follow a simple 1 2 3 4 pattern with evenly spaced beats.

Well that's true, but the 4 beats are there. bum-bump, bum-bump. Similar to a heartbeat.

-edit-
Aardvark - you're right, now that I think about it I've ridden with a distinct 4/4 time, evenly spaced. Don't know what that gait is called, but it's clearly 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4.

My theory may hold some merit, specifically for western music.

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: Ns1
it's easily broken down (by half) and sped up (2x)? no idea otherwise

Just seems more logical going 1/2/4/8/16/32 vs...

1/3/6/12/etc


danny carey pwns.

I hate to be the "me too" guy but I agree

 

[sobriquet]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: sobriquet
But the walking/running of horses doesn't follow a simple 1 2 3 4 pattern with evenly spaced beats.

Well that's true, but the 4 beats are there. bum-bump, bum-bump. Similar to a heartbeat.

Yes, but the concept of 4/4 depends on the regularity of those 4 pulses: 1 2 3 4, not 12 34.

 

[sobriquet]

I had forgotten about this, but a friend of mine once wrote a paper on how the emergence of the clock affected the use and understanding of time in Western music. I never read it, so I can't say I agree with the argument, but it's an interesting one nonetheless.

 

[preslove]

Spidey, your theory sucks, let it go It's basically because our classical music is based on that timing. Other cultures' classical music are based on other timings, so they aren't as based on 4/4.

Good topic for discussion, though

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: sobriquet
I had forgotten about this, but a friend of mine once wrote a paper on how the emergence of the clock affected the use and understanding of time in Western music. I never read it, so I can't say I agree with the argument, but it's an interesting one nonetheless.

There's no argument. But there HAS to be an answer.

If the time signatures between eastern and western music are so different then there HAS to be a reason for that divergence. Find the reason for that and you'll find the reason why common time is so common.

Maybe divergence isn't the best word or maybe it is. But there has to be an anthropological reason for this. I can understand why in this day and age common time is so natural - we've heard it all our lives. How this came to be is really what I'm trying to figure out.

But - I believe if you give a chimp common time with the appropriate accents he will merrily follow along. If this is true then my horse idea is out the window and we'll have to go further back.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: spidey07
Another theory? Could it have anything to do that we once walked on all 4s and that natural rhythm is still there?

I wouldn't think that's likely; any evolutionary link to walking on all fours is so far removed it seems such a remote possibility that there is any sort of tie. I also am not so sure that way back when there was any sort of selective benefit to have 4/4 rhythm as some prehistoric animal. That and you can have 'rhythm' with probably any music meter.

I play the Shakuhachi, which is a Japanese bamboo flute, and their music (derived from some older Chinese music) does not have time meter such as we see in the Western world. Therefore from my limited experience with this type of music there does not seem to be any 'universal' time measurement shared with Western music.

Again, I would think that it's just very simply and straightforward to have a 4/4 meter.

Well japenese didn't ride horses or animals as far as I know. So there may be some merit to the riding an animal leading to 4 beats being so familiar. We'd have to contrast this with chinese music, india, russia, etc because I'm sure they rode animals not being constrained to a small island.

And as far as anthropology - having sex seems very natural as are a whole lot of things that our cortex isn't aware of. a couple million years of walking on all 4s vs 40K of two tells me it isn't that far removed.

Don't monkeys move their head to a beat if they hear one for a while?

I think horse gaits vary between 2/4, 4/4 and 3/4 depending on whether they're trotting or cantering or etc.

I think I remember hearing some seriously old school country music at one point where the beat was essentially that of a walking horse.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: preslove
Spidey, your theory sucks, let it go It's basically because our classical music is based on that timing. Other cultures' classical music are based on other timings, so they aren't as based on 4/4.

Good topic for discussion, though

Well that would make sense, but how do you account for american and african (and possibly austrailian?) natives having this same beat without any outside cultural influence?