Music lovers! Final showdown between MP3 and OggVorbis!

[AnitaPeterson]

Hi there,

Since I've recently decided it's no longer worth the trouble of making audio CDs, I'm going to convert all my wave files to something else.

But what?

After a bit of research, and reviewing what I've learned so far, it all boils down to two formats: MP3 and OggVorbis.

I've decided that the optimum rate is 256 kbps for both types of files (taking into account, among others, available storage and future developments) .

However, I'm still looking for more input (!) before taking the final step.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both formats.
- MP3 is much better known, and has support even on standalone Home theatre equipment. It's also slighly smaller than Ogg files at the same bit rate.
- Ogg, on the other hand, is a non-lossy codec, and it is hailed for better sound.

My current speakers are rather crappy, and I can't hear any difference between the three files (the original .wav and the resulting .ogg and .mp3 - both at 256 kbps). That doesn't mean I won't get better equipment at some point, though...

What are your thoughts on the matter?

I know some are using the new FLAC format, but for the moment I'm only interested in the two above.

If you know of any links to tests comparing the two, please post them - even if I've seen them, perhaps others will use them as well.

Cheers!

 

[krackato]

Um....

Okay, first of all OggVorbis IS a lossy codec. Non-lossy codecs like FLAC and Monkey's audio are non-lossy because they don't 'lose' any of the original wav information.

Ogg Vorbis does sound better, at least to my ears, but a lot of people agree. The difference is subtle and you're only going to really notice if you're doing sound tests (for the most part), but that being said, Ogg Vorbis sounds better. More importantly, Ogg Vorbis was designed years after mp3 so the guys at Xiph.com who developed it were able to take advantage of all the improvements in sound compression that have developed. Technologically, Ogg Vorbis is the superior format.

As far as encoding at 256 kbps, whichever format you use, you'll want to use variable bit rate. If the codec only needs 32kb of information to create a sound, then what's the point of using 256kb? The codec's are very intelligent, and VBR is one of the best ways of maintaining quality and keeping file sizes down. A 256kbps VBR file will also sound better than a 256kbps CBR (constant bit rate file), because in those parts of the music when the codec can improve quality by bumping the bitrate to 320kbps, it will. I think that Ogg Vorbis only allows variable bit rate, but I guess that's a good thing.

Finally, as far as hardware support, all the Ogg guys are basically just waiting for the Nomad Zen or the Apple iPod to become compatible with the format. Who knows how long that's going to take. The good thing is that there are a few hardware devices that are going to support ogg that are coming out soon. Check the Neuros Website.. I'm not going to buy that product because even though it comes with a 20gb harddrive, it's only got a USB 1.1 interface. Still, the final word is that Ogg Vorbis hardware is coming and it's going to be equal to or better than what's currently out on the market.

I've an Ogg Vorbis fan, and as soon as hardware support comes out, screw what the rest of the world is using. I'll be using Vorbis.

 

[mk]

You might find some useful information here.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Okay, first of all OggVorbis IS a lossy codec. Non-lossy codecs like FLAC and Monkey's audio are non-lossy because they don't 'lose' any of the original wav information.

Exactly, which is why I'm using FLAC for my collection -- not only is it true CD quality for playback, but it acts as a true CD quality backup of my CDs, many of which are now out of print.

And (again since it's lossless) I can transcode to MP3 for my flash player with the same quality as going straight from a CD. Going ogg to MP3 will sound much worse.

I chose FLAC over Monkey's because it's open-source, cross-platform, and has a manufacturer-friendly royalty-free license.

 

[mk]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
After a bit of research, and reviewing what I've learned so far, it all boils down to two formats: MP3 and Ogg Vorbis.

I've decided that the optimum rate is 256 kbps for both types of files (taking into account, among others, available storage and future developments).

[nitpick]The optimum bitrates for both formats are way below that (in terms of quality/size ratio probably as low as 160 and 100 kbps, respectively)[/nitpick]

If you are looking for high quality settings you should remember that the saturation points for both formats are somewhere around 200 kbps (using VBR of course), beyond that the quality doesn't really increase much no matter how much you pump up the bitrate.

 

[Ketchup]

I have heard the optimum bitrate is 128, but I can't stand to listen to anything recorded below 192 kbps. I blame my Klipsch's for that!