Musharraf resigns

[The Green Bean]

The people of my country must be kicking themselves for having voted looters into power. It's been roughly 150 days since the new government came into power and it seems that was enough time for them to destroy all the progress we made in the 9 years Musharraf was in power. Too bad that Musharraf fell for the western "democracy" propaganda. He bought about it's own downfall.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/08/18/musharraf.htm

 

[BoomerD]

I was posting this same story while you did.

Since you're Pakistani, what do you think will happen? Will the people elect someone more "friendly" to the US interests and maybe even permit US forces to chase the Taliban across the border? Will they elect someone more or less the same? Will they elect someone who turns Pakistan into a religious theocracy along the lines of Iran or the Taliban?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I was posting this same story while you did.

Since you're Pakistani, what do you think will happen? Will the people elect someone more "friendly" to the US interests and maybe even permit US forces to chase the Taliban across the border? Will they elect someone more or less the same? Will they elect someone who turns Pakistan into a religious theocracy along the lines of Iran or the Taliban?

Most of the power is with the PM. The president is supposed to be a ceremonial figure. One of the charges against Musharraf was that he allowed the US to bomb across the border. I'm guessing the new (current) government (is) will be far less friendly to the US that Musharraf was. The religious groups won lesser seats than they did in the last election. The government will remain secular but not pro-western. The US will have a tougher time with them and I think that's a good thing because it reflects the voice of the people.

 

[Sinsear]

I guess I know who we'll be bombing next.

 

[StageLeft]

So now what or Mushy? He went from leading the military to president and now what, sit at home?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
So now what or Mushy? He went from leading the military to president and now what, sit at home?

Yea he'll be lucky if that happens.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I guess I know who we'll be bombing next.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's us because I I see the US as nothing more than tyrants, despots, and aggressors. Is there a reason I should believe otherwise. "Verily God's curse is upon (the) oppressors"

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I guess I know who we'll be bombing next.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's us because I I see the US as nothing more than tyrants, despots, and aggressors. Is there a reason I should believe otherwise. "Verily God's curse is upon (the) oppressors"

I understand that's your opinion, but do you have a sense of how the country feels outside of your social circle?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I guess I know who we'll be bombing next.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's us because I I see the US as nothing more than tyrants, despots, and aggressors. Is there a reason I should believe otherwise. "Verily God's curse is upon (the) oppressors"

I understand that's your opinion, but do you have a sense of how the country feels outside of your social circle?

Yes. Most people have a far more negative view of the USA then I do. Many were happy 9/11 happened. Most were apathetic. 95% of all people I know believe the USA is waging war against Islam. With the things they're doing I would have to agree with them. Tyrant empires that have looked invincible have eventually fallen. May the USA suffer the same fate. Think outside what the idiot box tells you. Don't believe everything your media tells you and maybe then you will be able to see the evil that your government is doing in your name.

 

[Lemon law]

As Musharraf prepares to get out before he is forced out, its still leaves a mixed bag as a leader. And to some extent his departure is overdue, because he wore out his welcome. But that is almost entirely counterbalanced by the fact that Musharraf somewhat of anomaly in the class of military dictators. While the average military dictator would simply just take over and be done with it, Musharraf did have faith in democracy, and as such tried to wear the two hats of a democratic leader and a military dictator, keeping democracy alive in Pakistan while lesser men would have crushed it. But time wore out the two hats, it worked for one term, it was already wearing thin by the end of the second term, and untenable by term three. But still the West must accept that the Pakistani people demanded and choose democracy.

Its almost a given that whomever replaces Musharraf will lack his experience and shrewdness. I suspect that that TGB is correct, a decidedly secular Pakistan will be far less tolerant of any US trespass or physical presence in any areas of Pakistan. And it remains to be seen how the Pakistani military will react to the ouster of Musharraf, after all, the Pakistani army is under the control of a Musharraf hand picked successor.

My final comment is that Pakistan is now at a turning point, Pregnant with opportunity while at the same time at the brink of disaster. When its kind, history comes up with a new and dynamic leader who charts a firm and clean path toward solving problems. The two objectives I would like to see Pakistan accomplish is to settle its Kashmir problems with India and getting economic development to the tribal areas of Pakistan.

What will happen under lesser leadership is anyone guess.

Because the USA does have a role in this. And yes, I agree with TGB, I do not like what the US government is doing in my name. We all have a stake in world peace, and right now, it would not take much Washington stupidity to make this whole Afghan occupation into a totally unmanageable problem while planting the seeds of future conflicts.

 

[The Green Bean]

http://www.dawn.com/2008/08/18/musharraf.htm

Interesting reading for anyone that cares.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I guess I know who we'll be bombing next.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's us because I I see the US as nothing more than tyrants, despots, and aggressors. Is there a reason I should believe otherwise. "Verily God's curse is upon (the) oppressors"

I understand that's your opinion, but do you have a sense of how the country feels outside of your social circle?

Yes. Most people have a far more negative view of the USA then I do. Many were happy 9/11 happened. Most were apathetic. 95% of all people I know believe the USA is waging war against Islam. With the things they're doing I would have to agree with them. Tyrant empires that have looked invincible have eventually fallen. May the USA suffer the same fate. Think outside what the idiot box tells you. Don't believe everything your media tells you and maybe then you will be able to see the evil that your government is doing in your name.

You see the US as aggressors and yet live among vast people who were apathetic or happy about 3000 people at work being killed. Don't you realize how this makes you sound?

The US has no war with Islam. It has a history of supporting governments that may or may not be for Islam. The US is motivated primarily by economics, not religion. Do you really think the leaders of this country particularly represent Christian, for example, values? I sure as hell don't.

Living in a society as you do with far, far less freedom of expression and media as the US, it's quite rich indeed condemning those of us here for being spoonfed what to think.

 

[palehorse]

I just hope that the new President in Pakistan finally has the balls to eradicate the Taliban properly and clean out the ISI... then again, I'm smart enough to know that he won't. Instead, he'll become just one more turd floating in what is officially The Toilet Bowl of Central Asia...

sad that.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I guess I know who we'll be bombing next.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's us because I I see the US as nothing more than tyrants, despots, and aggressors. Is there a reason I should believe otherwise. "Verily God's curse is upon (the) oppressors"

I understand that's your opinion, but do you have a sense of how the country feels outside of your social circle?

Yes. Most people have a far more negative view of the USA then I do. Many were happy 9/11 happened. Most were apathetic. 95% of all people I know believe the USA is waging war against Islam. With the things they're doing I would have to agree with them. Tyrant empires that have looked invincible have eventually fallen. May the USA suffer the same fate. Think outside what the idiot box tells you. Don't believe everything your media tells you and maybe then you will be able to see the evil that your government is doing in your name.

Lulz, the irony.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: palehorse
I just hope that the new President in Pakistan finally has the balls to eradicate the Taliban properly and clean out the ISI... then again, I'm smart enough to know that he won't. Instead, he'll become just one more turd floating in what is officially The Toilet Bowl of Central Asia...

sad that.

Do you think it's even possible for that to happen? You would need someone with dictatorial powers to confront the Taliban because that region is fucking lawless and unforgiving. If an empire (the British) and a totalitarian state (USSR) couldn't do it, what makes you think America can do it let alone democratic Pakistanis?

I think Al Qaeda has found the perfect place to hide.

 

[LegendKiller]

Let me get this straight...

So, it's OK for Pakistan to be the epicenter of a global terrorist network, but the US is evil for trying to stop it from killing innocent people? And we should feel sorry for people who cheer the death of innocent people?

I don't think the opinion of people who cheer innocent deaths really matters.

 

[K1052]

Hopefully we have a bead on where the Pakistani nukes are so we can go in and grab them when this house of cards they call a government falls apart.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: K1052
Hopefully we have a bead on where the Pakistani nukes are so we can go in and grab them when this house of cards they call a government falls apart.

That or feed the info to India. I doubt it will come to that, but if the country does splinter--and it's not just that a new power is coming along, the place really is a mess--then I would hope the world wouldn't let new factions be in control of nuclear weapons, that would be irresponsible. I'd feel far more comfortable with a nuclear Iran than a couple or three half-assed new pakistan power centers with weapons.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
You see the US as aggressors and yet live among vast people who were apathetic or happy about 3000 people at work being killed. Don't you realize how this makes you sound?

What percentage of the US population might be Nazis? If you worked with one of them would you quit your job. Too bad you can't punish a person for what he thinks. Or atleast according to civilized law you can't.

The US has no war with Islam. It has a history of supporting governments that may or may not be for Islam. The US is motivated primarily by economics, not religion. Do you really think the leaders of this country particularly represent Christian, for example, values? I sure as hell don't.

The fact that American economics is dictated by jews who are supporters of Israel is the reason why they're against Islam.

Living in a society as you do with far, far less freedom of expression and media as the US, it's quite rich indeed condemning those of us here for being spoonfed what to think.

I posted in another thread. I've been to roughly 30 different countries. I have seen more of the world than most of you here and therefore have a winder scope of thinking. Unlike most people here that have only received a formal education in western literature and philosophy I am learning my 5th language and have studied literature of 4 different languages of different eras. Just because I live in Pakistan doesn't mean I have a confined mind or people can spoof me. And I'm only 20.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: K1052
Hopefully we have a bead on where the Pakistani nukes are so we can go in and grab them when this house of cards they call a government falls apart.

That won't happen. Our nukes are secure. Small commando teams will never be able to secure them. And there are atleast 40 warheads. Even if you manage to get one we will be alerted and move our nukes from their bunkers. And might even use one or two on your carrier group.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Skoorb
You see the US as aggressors and yet live among vast people who were apathetic or happy about 3000 people at work being killed. Don't you realize how this makes you sound?

What percentage of the US population might be Nazis? If you worked with one of them would you quit your job. Too bad you can't punish a person for what he thinks. Or atleast according to civilized law you can't.

godwin's law, you've lost.

The US has no war with Islam. It has a history of supporting governments that may or may not be for Islam. The US is motivated primarily by economics, not religion. Do you really think the leaders of this country particularly represent Christian, for example, values? I sure as hell don't.

The fact that American economics is dictated by jews who are supporters of Israel is the reason why they're against Islam.

ahahahahahaahhaahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


*breathe*


ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


*suck air*

lolololol

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: K1052
Hopefully we have a bead on where the Pakistani nukes are so we can go in and grab them when this house of cards they call a government falls apart.

That or feed the info to India. I doubt it will come to that, but if the country does splinter--and it's not just that a new power is coming along, the place really is a mess--then I would hope the world wouldn't let new factions be in control of nuclear weapons, that would be irresponsible. I'd feel far more comfortable with a nuclear Iran than a couple or three half-assed new pakistan power centers with weapons.

And do you think India can afford a war against us? Even a conventional one? Both countries can't and India has more to far more to lose.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I guess I know who we'll be bombing next.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's us because I I see the US as nothing more than tyrants, despots, and aggressors. Is there a reason I should believe otherwise. "Verily God's curse is upon (the) oppressors"

I understand that's your opinion, but do you have a sense of how the country feels outside of your social circle?

Yes. Most people have a far more negative view of the USA then I do. Many were happy 9/11 happened. Most were apathetic. 95% of all people I know believe the USA is waging war against Islam. With the things they're doing I would have to agree with them. Tyrant empires that have looked invincible have eventually fallen. May the USA suffer the same fate. Think outside what the idiot box tells you. Don't believe everything your media tells you and maybe then you will be able to see the evil that your government is doing in your name.

I could understand certain parts of the globe being apathetic, but seeing this a war against Islam? That I find confusing.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: K1052
Hopefully we have a bead on where the Pakistani nukes are so we can go in and grab them when this house of cards they call a government falls apart.

That won't happen. Our nukes are secure. Small commando teams will never be able to secure them. And there are atleast 40 warheads. Even if you manage to get one we will be alerted and move our nukes from their bunkers. And might even use one or two on your carrier group.

Wouldn't take long to drop in elements of the 101st Airborne out of Iraq to secure the sites. US air power would be more than sufficient to protect them from major assault long enough to extract the weapons.

How would Pakistan deliver that nuke intact to the carrier group, by unicorn?

 

[StageLeft]

The fact that American economics is dictated by jews who are supporters of Israel is the reason why they're against Islam.

Oh right, because Israel has a tendency to start wars with its neighbors... Your logic doesn't work; the US also supports nations like Saudi, which has pretty strict Islamic laws in place. The US is interested in economics and security (if they support its economics), hence Israel, a comparitively sane counter-weight in the Middle East to nations with a history of upheval and insanity.

And do you think India can afford a war against us? Even a conventional one? Both countries can't and India has more to far more to lose.

Probably not, that's why a healthy air campaign from the US would be the best course of action. No need for Commando teams, just lots of bombers and cruise missiles.