Musharraf on Bhutto's Death: Nobody's fault but her own

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Seriously, like what the hell was JFK doing in a convertible? And that Iraqi who had a bomb dropped on her house, why was she home? The Israeli in the bus that exploded on the way to work? He should've walked, it's healthier. I'm sure Ghandi, Martin Luther King and Biggie agree with me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...musharraf_N.htm?csp=34
"For standing up outside the car, I think it was she to blame alone. Nobody else. Responsibility is hers," he added.

Hm. Nobody else? Really? I can think of at least one other person who might bear some responsibility. I mean, he's in about 1000 pieces right now, but still.

 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Well, he's right in that nobody put herself in the situation in which she could be attacked. She was a populist deeply in love with her adoring public and was prone to these slow-moving processions through the streets. You really couldn't provide an easier target.

Don't get me wrong - I think the military and police forces under his control could have done a more effective job of security, but can you really stop every suicide bomber from success in a country of 180 million that is basically the epicentre of Islamic extremism? Her standing up and exposing her upper body to attack sure didn't help matters either.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
I blame her because she stood up for what she believed in. Didn't she learn anything from Gandhi and MLK Jr.?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
I blame her because she stood up for what she believed in. Didn't she learn anything from Gandhi and MLK Jr.?

She learned that some things are risking your life for. That she had courage and conviction is certainly her fault and lets those who killed her off the hook.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
While Mushy is somewhat correct, he is playing the wrong tune to mollify anyone at exactly the time he needs to calm tensions. Its sort of like going to a funeral and telling all the mourners that you are glad they are dead when the politically correct thing to do is to say nice things about the dearly departed.

Even Chicago mobsters at least sent flowers to the funeral of the people they were glad to see gone.

Her supporters are deep in grief and all Musharrif cares about is himself. Its how to piss people off 101 in action.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: bamacre
I blame her because she stood up for what she believed in. Didn't she learn anything from Gandhi and MLK Jr.?

She learned that some things are risking your life for. That she had courage and conviction is certainly her fault and lets those who killed her off the hook.

:confused: Are people in the West generally under the impression that Bhutto was some sort of visionary or great leader? She was anything but. Charismatic, but corrupt to the core and was pretty much changed her opinions as per what the latest polls stated.

The best thing that could be said for her is that it's safe to say that she would have taken a strong stand against extremism. Otherwise, just another bullshitting corrupt dynastic leader.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: bamacre
I blame her because she stood up for what she believed in. Didn't she learn anything from Gandhi and MLK Jr.?

She learned that some things are risking your life for. That she had courage and conviction is certainly her fault and lets those who killed her off the hook.

:confused: Are people in the West generally under the impression that Bhutto was some sort of visionary or great leader? She was anything but. Charismatic, but corrupt to the core and was pretty much changed her opinions as per what the latest polls stated.

The best thing that could be said for her is that it's safe to say that she would have taken a strong stand against extremism. Otherwise, just another bullshitting corrupt dynastic leader.

You know, I suppose you are right. MLK for example was full of faults. All leaders are corrupt. Still something moved her to take great personal risk. Maybe she was delusional. Maybe she thought she could make a difference. We'll not have to worry about that now, will we?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: yllus
:confused: Are people in the West generally under the impression that Bhutto was some sort of visionary or great leader? She was anything but. Charismatic, but corrupt to the core and was pretty much changed her opinions as per what the latest polls stated.

The best thing that could be said for her is that it's safe to say that she would have taken a strong stand against extremism. Otherwise, just another bullshitting corrupt dynastic leader.

You know, I suppose you are right. MLK for example was full of faults. All leaders are corrupt. Still something moved her to take great personal risk. Maybe she was delusional. Maybe she thought she could make a difference. We'll not have to worry about that now, will we?

Yeah, and personally I think what moved her was a family-ingrained lust for power. Did George W. Bush run for governor and then president because he thought he could make a difference, or was it because it was considered the natural path considering his family's heritage? Same deal here.

I find it incredible that people would even think of putting her in the same sentence as MLK or Gandhi (or perhaps Lincoln). Does getting assassinated automatically nominate you for deification and praise these days? Frankly I suspect that the ignorance of most Westerners when it comes to politics on the Indian subcontinent are the primary motivators behind all this praise.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: yllus
:confused: Are people in the West generally under the impression that Bhutto was some sort of visionary or great leader? She was anything but. Charismatic, but corrupt to the core and was pretty much changed her opinions as per what the latest polls stated.

The best thing that could be said for her is that it's safe to say that she would have taken a strong stand against extremism. Otherwise, just another bullshitting corrupt dynastic leader.

You know, I suppose you are right. MLK for example was full of faults. All leaders are corrupt. Still something moved her to take great personal risk. Maybe she was delusional. Maybe she thought she could make a difference. We'll not have to worry about that now, will we?

Yeah, and personally I think what moved her was a family-ingrained lust for power. Did George W. Bush run for governor and then president because he thought he could make a difference, or was it because it was considered the natural path considering his family's heritage? Same deal here.

I find it incredible that people would even think of putting her in the same sentence as MLK or Gandhi (or perhaps Lincoln). Does getting assassinated automatically nominate you for deification and praise these days? Frankly I suspect that the ignorance of most Westerners when it comes to politics on the Indian subcontinent are the primary motivators behind all this praise.

I think you're missing the fact that there was a very strong possibility that she would be assassinated and she came back anyway, even though she was pretty safe outside of the country. They call that courage. You think GWB would have run for Pres if he seriously thought there would be assassination attempts? He wouldn't even go to Vietnam.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: yllus
Yeah, and personally I think what moved her was a family-ingrained lust for power. Did George W. Bush run for governor and then president because he thought he could make a difference, or was it because it was considered the natural path considering his family's heritage? Same deal here.

I find it incredible that people would even think of putting her in the same sentence as MLK or Gandhi (or perhaps Lincoln). Does getting assassinated automatically nominate you for deification and praise these days? Frankly I suspect that the ignorance of most Westerners when it comes to politics on the Indian subcontinent are the primary motivators behind all this praise.

I think you're missing the fact that there was a very strong possibility that she would be assassinated and she came back anyway, even though she was pretty safe outside of the country. They call that courage. You think GWB would have run for Pres if he seriously thought there would be assassination attempts? He wouldn't even go to Vietnam.

Courage? She didn't take the assassination threat very seriously, leading to the death of 120+ of her supporters on the first day she got back. Yet a few weeks later, Bhutto stands up and exposes her upper body in the middle of an enormous crowd outside of the safety of a bomb-resistant vehicle.

Can we now consider Lenin a courageous hero of Russia in the same league as Ghandi and Martin Luther King? He returned from exile as well to assume control of a political party and had multiple assassination attempts against him conducted. I guess maybe your reaction makes sense - Lenin's popularity spiked heavily after his last assassination attempt as well. No matter what he actually did or stood for.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,946
130
106
..who told her to stand up and stick her head out of the sun roof??