multiple case fans wiring to PWM header on motherboard

srbraith

Junior Member
Dec 9, 2016
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Im using multiple 3-pin fans that will connect to this:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/modmytoy ... block.html

What adapter cable do I need to connect the above link to my PWN 4-pin header on motherboard so I can control fan speed in BIOS or using software? Is there a Molex end/4-pin female end cable that exists?

I know Jayz2cents used that block in part of his Skunkworks build and was able to control fan speed

thanks for your help!!


Or would this work better - http://www.phanteks.com/PH-PWHUB.html
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
May 4, 2000
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The Phantek hub would work much better. The first one from what I can tell from the website, is just a splitter that will power up to 8 fans, powered by a molex, but there is no (4-pin) PWM going out to your motherboard, so they would all run full speed.

I wasn't too sure of the Phantek at first, but looking at the user manual, it shows it has six 3-pin connectors, SATA power input, and 4-pin to go to your motherboard where you can control the speed from your BIOS (or motherboard utility program within Windows).

Also, you might want to read page two of the user manual on that site as it explains the difference PWM connections on motherboards (not all 4-pin connections are truly PWM). You can figure out what your motherboard has by looking at the specs in your motherboard manual.

For example, my Gigabyte board has five 4-pin connectors on it, but only two of them are truly PWM (cpu_fan and cpu_opt). The other three are controlled by voltage.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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UsandThem has raised two very good points. But the second one first - that is, the capabilities of your mobo.

Any HUB requires a PWM signal to operate with. That means it must be connected to a 4-pin mobo fan header that actually is using PWM Mode for control. The problem is that many current mobos use 4-pin headers, but actually operate under Voltage Control Mode just like a 3-pin fan header. That is, that type of header does NOT supply a PWM signal for a Hub. So, OP, post back here exactly what maker and model number of mobo you have so we can look at its manual and discern what it does.

If your mobo's headers use only Voltage Control Mode, the way to power and control multiple 3-pin fans from them is with SPLITTERS (they operate differently from Hubs, and do not require a PWM signal). But if your mobo headers operate in PWM Mode, then a very particular Hub is what you need.

As it happens, the very particular one is that Phanteks PWM Hub. Most HUBS just multiply the 4-pin PWM ports so that you can power and control only 4-pin fans with them. A 3-pin fan on a true 4-pin port or mobo header will only run at full speed. BUT the Phanteks PWM Hub is unique. It uses the PWM signal from a mobo header to create its own group of six 3-pin ports operating in Voltage Control Mode, which is exactly what you need to control 3-pin fans. There are a few hints on how best to use this hub. When you post the mobo details, if it turns out you need this Hub, we can advise the best way. To do that, let us know how many fans you have. I'm assuming (but this might be revised) that you will have some CPU cooling system plugged into the mobo CPU_FAN header, and plan "multiple" (how many?) case ventilation fans. Give us details, please.
 

srbraith

Junior Member
Dec 9, 2016
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The motherboard im using a the Asus ROG MAXIMUS VIII Formula

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-VIII-FORMULA/

looks like I do have 6 seperate 4 pin PWM headers available on the motherboard

As far as my fan setup....it's a little crazy. Its exactly what Jayz2cents has in his Skunkworks build.

fans going in a caselabs SM8 case

4 air fans (3 in front and 1 in back)
6 fans on bottom of case - 4 140mm's for the 560 rad and 2 140 mm's for a 280 rad - supplying GPU loop
4 fans on top of case supplying a 480 rad - supplying CPU loop

I know.....way overkill

I was hoping to control fan speeds for the 3 seperate zones - seperate control for the GPU loop rads, the CPU rad, and the 4 air fans.

So i was planning on maybe using 3 of those Phantek Hubs to control the 3 seperate zones attached to 3 of the PWM 4-pin headers on motherboard.

thoughts?
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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Yes, this can all work using only 3-pin fans (as you say you intend) and three Phanteks PWM Hubs, as you have anticipated. You will have to make a adjustments in BIOS Setup. I think the GPU cooling plan may be risky.

You can install and arrange your Hubs as you say. This will require plugging all three into SATA power outputs connectors from your PSU, so check whether you have three spare of those.

Your mobo has very complete options for configuring use of its four CHA_FAN headers. First change you will need, though, is that they come set to "DC Mode" by default, and you will need to change that to "PWM Mode" for EACH of the headers you use, to ensure each Hub gets the PWM signal it requires. THEN you will want to configure which temperature sensor is used for each fan group.

For the fans cooling the CPU, I don't know how you are doing that but it surely involves a liquid cooling loop, pump, etc. Most such systems come with their own instructions on what to connect where, often because they do their own CPU temperature control. This MAY mean that you can NOT use a Hub and 3-pin fans to cool the rad for that system, so review that detail carefully. But maybe it can be done. For example, IF the liquid cooling system uses 4-pin fans and has output connectors for them you may be able to custom-splice a connector onto the fan lead from a Hub to plug into the pump unit's fan header and get the required PWM signal. BUT if that cooling system only uses Voltage Control Mode to power its own 3-pin fans, then the Hub can't do this job. In that case, you would be able only to connect your CPU rad fans to the CPU liquid cooling system's outputs using a SPLITTER, and you would have to be SURE that that system can provide enough power to run four fans. Consult the cooling system's maker for that. OR, figure out with their advice how NOT to use their system's cooling control plan, and just let your mobo's CPU_FAN header do that control, which would allow you to use one of the Hubs for that. Lots of "if's" and thinking to do there.

For the case fans it's easy. Just be sure to set up the CHA_FAN header you plan to use for that group to use as its temperature source the "MotherBoard" option.

For cooling the rads on the GPU you have a problem. I have no idea how the GPU tries to control its temperatures. I expect it has one or more temperature sensors and its own control system internally, and how you could get access to that is a big question. Somehow you need a PWM signal from that system for your third Hub to guide the 6 fans you plan for the GPU rads. The mobo has no way to access that info. The closest approximation I can see is to ignore the GPU card's temperature control system entirely (probably NOT a good idea), try to rig a thermistor sensor onto some point on the GPU card, and connect it to the mobo's T-Sensor1 header (see manual p. 1-45, item 10). Then you'd have to configure the CHA_FAN header for that Hub and fan group to use the T-Sensor1 sensor AND custom-configure the automatic temperature controls used on that CHA_FAN header to cool the GPU properly. It is NOT pre-configured for that job! BUT I MUST warn you this would be VERY risky. Identifying the correct spot for placement of that sensor, and ensuring that it makes good contact and KEEPS giving reliable temperature readings, is not at all reliable. You would do much better to follow the plans of the GPU card and / or the liquid cooling system you have planned for it. You need to consult the GPU card maker, and realize that your custom system may invalidate their warranty.
 

srbraith

Junior Member
Dec 9, 2016
7
0
1
I appreciate your feedback Paperdoc. You obviousaly understand this way better than I do. I'm just a beginner doing an advanced build. lol

Let me clarify a few things here. I'm running 2 different custom watercooling loops in this build, one for the CPU and the other for the GPU's (SLI) using seperate pumps.

For the case fans:

For the case fans it's easy. Just be sure to set up the CHA_FAN header you plan to use for that group to use as its temperature source the "MotherBoard" option.

agreed should be easy

For the CPU fans cooling radiator

For the fans cooling the CPU, I don't know how you are doing that but it surely involves a liquid cooling loop, pump, etc. Most such systems come with their own instructions on what to connect where, often because they do their own CPU temperature control. This MAY mean that you can NOT use a Hub and 3-pin fans to cool the rad for that system, so review that detail carefully. But maybe it can be done. For example, IF the liquid cooling system uses 4-pin fans and has output connectors for them you may be able to custom-splice a connector onto the fan lead from a Hub to plug into the pump unit's fan header and get the required PWM signal. BUT if that cooling system only uses Voltage Control Mode to power its own 3-pin fans, then the Hub can't do this job. In that case, you would be able only to connect your CPU rad fans to the CPU liquid cooling system's outputs using a SPLITTER, and you would have to be SURE that that system can provide enough power to run four fans. Consult the cooling system's maker for that. OR, figure out with their advice how NOT to use their system's cooling control plan, and just let your mobo's CPU_FAN header do that control, which would allow you to use one of the Hubs for that. Lots of "if's" and thinking to do there.

was planning on connecting one of the hubs (with the 4 fans connected to) to the CPU_FAN header (PWM). I'm assuming that in the BIOS there will be some sort of graph I can configure where as the temp rises on CPU I can ramp up the fan speed percentage. might need to call ASUS and find out

For the GPU fans cooling radiators

For cooling the rads on the GPU you have a problem. I have no idea how the GPU tries to control its temperatures. I expect it has one or more temperature sensors and its own control system internally, and how you could get access to that is a big question. Somehow you need a PWM signal from that system for your third Hub to guide the 6 fans you plan for the GPU rads. The mobo has no way to access that info. The closest approximation I can see is to ignore the GPU card's temperature control system entirely (probably NOT a good idea), try to rig a thermistor sensor onto some point on the GPU card, and connect it to the mobo's T-Sensor1 header (see manual p. 1-45, item 10). Then you'd have to configure the CHA_FAN header for that Hub and fan group to use the T-Sensor1 sensor AND custom-configure the automatic temperature controls used on that CHA_FAN header to cool the GPU properly. It is NOT pre-configured for that job! BUT I MUST warn you this would be VERY risky. Identifying the correct spot for placement of that sensor, and ensuring that it makes good contact and KEEPS giving reliable temperature readings, is not at all reliable. You would do much better to follow the plans of the GPU card and / or the liquid cooling system you have planned for it. You need to consult the GPU card maker, and realize that your custom system may invalidate their warranty.

can't this be done in the same way as the CPU control? Motherboard knows how hot the video cards are getting. Wonder if you can assign one of the CHA_FAN PWM headers to fluctuate depending on the temps of the GPU's. I can call Asus and ask about that. If the fan speeds cant automatically be controlled depending on temps than i guess I could just set the fan speeds at 50% as default. Since I have 6 fans cooling the radiaotors at 50% should keep the GPU's plenty cool even under load.

thank you for your patience with me. let me know what you think.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
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You are missing some important information on those last two.

For the CPU cooling system, the "normal" way is that the cooling fan you attach to the CPU chip is controlled by the mobo's CPU_FAN header, and that control is based on the actual temperature measured by a sensor built into the CPU itself. When you opt instead for a liquid cooling system that MIGHT change. Some of them take over the cooling task,doing it their own way and not using the mobo automatic system. Some do it other ways, and I suspect it is possible to use a liquid system but ignore its control plans and just use the mobo's system. What is really needed here is to know what your chosen liquid cooling system is designed to do. So, post back here exactly what make and model number of liquid cooling system you plan for your CPU, and I can look up its details.

For the two GPU cards in an SLI system, again I have no idea how your two cooling systems are designed to work. I do know that the mobo itself has NO way to know about the temperatures in those cards. Now, the cards themselves may have temperature sensors in them, and maybe some way to control their own cooling. The driver software that comes with such cards can display some of this info for you. BUT that information is NOT available to the mobo, so the mobo's automatic control systems for the CHA_FAN headers cannot use it. That info also is not normally made available to Windows, either. Only the GPU's systems know and can use that info. That is why "tapping into" that system and changing the way it is designed to operate is difficult and may be risky. So again, post back here exactly what makes and model numbers of liquid cooling systems you have planned for your two GPU cards, and maybe I can look up enough info to provide better advice.
 

srbraith

Junior Member
Dec 9, 2016
7
0
1
ok...Here are the details of my loops

So 2 seperate custom water cooling loops. Not using all-in-one watercooling kits Will be using acrylic tubing with appropiate fittings. Will be using 2 of these combo pump/resorvoir to supply both loops:
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xres-100-revo-d5-pwm-incl-pump One for each loop

2 x EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW cards

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

going to strip the card and install my own water block and back plate.

CPU Evo Supremacy block from EKWB

14 fans - combination of these 140 mm fans http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID= and these 120 mm fans http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID= These are both 3-pin non PWM fans.

Hope that helps
 

srbraith

Junior Member
Dec 9, 2016
7
0
1
So, i want to throw something else out at you PaperDoc. I read a post that you responded to concerning the differences between 3-pin and 4-pin headers and fans, etc. And than today I was reading and researching out the SpeedFan program. It sounds like you can control fan speeds using DC voltage with that program. The program can automatically read temperatures for all components on the motherboard including the video cards. And than you can set up profiles where the speed of the fan will change depending on temps.

Here is my motherboard:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-VIII-FORMULA/

Looks like the board has six 4-pin PWM headers. A CPU_FAN, CPU_OPT_FAN, and 4 CHA_FAN headers. All can be PWM or DC. Looks like in the BIOS you can change the headers function by going into either "PWM mode" or "DC Mode".

So will the following scenario work below?

X amount of 3-pin fans connected to this splitter http://www.performance-pcs.com/modmytoys-4-pin-power-distribution-pcb-8-way-block.html which connects to this adpater http://www.performance-pcs.com/modm...n-female-socket-cable-adapter-12-sleeved.html which would than plug into one of the 4-pin MOBO headers. So 3pin female end into a 4-pin male mobo header (can yhou do that?) Than i can control fans through DC voltage using SpeedFan.

Is this a possibility?
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,455
349
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Thanks for the details. Now I can give more complete advice.

Your mobo is very well equipped for what you want, but there are still limits on the graphics cards.

Let's start with the CPU cooling system. It will consist of the EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 PWM attached to the Evo Supremacy block from EKWB on your CPU, and to some radiator system you have not specified, but that's OK. The pump unit is PWM style, but your rad fans will be 3-pin style. You need a control system for that, and your mobo has all you need to do that.

You can connect the pump unit's cable that ends in a female fan connector to your mobo's W_PUMP header (see manual p. 1-42), and its other cable that ends in a male 4-pin Molex connector to a female Molex power output from the PSU. This provides power to the pump from the PSU (it needs more than a mobo header alone can provide), but control of the pump speed will be by the mobo via the PWM signal coming from the W_PUMP header, and speed of that pump will be reported to the mobo via that same header.

You then connect one of the Phanteks PWM Hub units to the mobo CPU_FAN header via the Hub's fan cable, and to a SATA power output from the PSU via the Hub's other cable. Then the four 3-pin fans mounted on the CPU rad will plug into ports of the Hub, ensuring that one of those is plugged into the white Hub Port #1 so its speed can be forwarded to the mobo CPU_FAN port. This allows the mobo to control the speed of the rad 3-pin fans and to monitor the speed of one of them to be sure it is operating.

Finally for this system, you will need to adjust BIOS Setup configurations for these two headers you are using. See your manual on p. 3-38, "CPU Q-Fan Control [Auto]". Set this to PWM Mode to ensure that the header sends out the PWM signal that your Hub will need. Next page for "CPU Fan Profile [Standard]", just check that it is set to "Standard" (the default) so the mobo will apply its automatic control system to this fan header and control your CPU rad fans via the Hub. Skip down to p. 3-42, "Water Pump Control" and set that to "PWM Mode" so the proper type of automatic control signals will be sent to the pump unit. Next you have to set up three points along the pump's speed control curve. Unlike most temperature control systems, the mobo really can't know by default the right settings for all liquid cooling systems, so you will have to create initial settings and later experiment to discover the "optimal" ones for your pump. Think of these three points as part of a graph of pump speeds versus the CPU's internal temperature. Now, "pump speed" here is really set as the "Duty Cycle" or ("% On") of the PWM signal. So for each of Max temp, Middle temp and Min temp, you will set what temperature that is, and what Duty Cycle you want the pump to run when that temperature is reached. Whatever Duty cycle you set for the Max temp, that same will be used for any temperature above that. Similarly, the Duty Cycle you set for Min temp will be used for temps below that. I'd suggest 100% Duty Cycle for Max temp (whatever temp you choose), and about 25% Duty Cycle for Min temp. To choose those temperatures (especially the Max temp), check the chip maker's spec for operating temperatures of the chip. When you have all those settings made, click on the "Exit" choice in the top menu list and on the Exit Menu page (manual p. 3-53), click on "Save Changes & Reset" to save your new settings. This configuration and physical connections will provide power and automatic speed control (by the mobo headers) both to your pump and to your four 3-pin fans mounted on the CPU cooler rad.

Next, case ventilation fans, which are easy. You plan to use four 3-pin fans for this. Your mobo has four CHA_FAN headers, and each of them can be configured to operate either in PWM Mode or in DC Mode - the latter is what you need for your fans. But you want to reserve at least one of those headers for your GPU cooling. (That is difficult (below), but I'll still assume one needs to be reserved). You could connect all four fans to one header only by using a Phnateks PWM Hub, but that's not necessary. You can just as easily connect four fans to one (or two) of these headers by using simple splitters that are much cheaper, because the total load for four of those fans certainly fits within the limits of one fan header. For two fans each to two headers, buy two Splitters with two output arms each, like these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...168&cm_re=fan_splitter-_-12-423-168-_-Product

Used this way, you will have separate control of each fan pair (although likely you will use exactly the same control settings, anyway), and the speed of ONE fan of each pair will be reported through the mobo headers.

To run all four fans off one header, buy three such splitters and "stack" them. That is, plug two of them into the output arms of the third; the result is a Splitter that converts one mobo header into four outputs. Then all four will be under the same control, and only one of them will have its speed reported. If you use Splitters (either way), configure the header(s) you use in BIOS Setup this way. Go to manual p. 3-39 and check that "Chassis Fan 1-4 Q-Fan Control" is set to DC Mode for each header used. If you have to change it, remember to go through the Exit Menu and select "Save Changes & Reset".

To run all four off one header but using a Phanteks PWM Hub, connect the Hub to one header and to a PSU SATA power output, and plug the fans into Hub port, ensuring one fan is in White Port #1. Now configure the header in BIOS Setup differently - this time it must be set to PWM Mode so that the Hub gets the PWM signal it needs. Then remember to go through the Exit Menu and select "Save Changes & Reset".

Now the hard part for which I have no complete solutions - your plans for GPU cooling. It appears that involves one more EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 PWM pump, two EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW cards in SLI, two unspecified rads and six 3-pin fans. To do this you plan to modify both video cards by removing their supplied cooling fans and replacing them with unspecified water blocks (likely invalidating the warranties). I am supposing that you plan to connect the two water blocks in series and the radiators in series using the single pump. But maybe you have a parallel arrangement intended - I don't know, but that does not matter for control purposes. To power the fans and to allow control of their speeds is straightforward in part of the design. You can do all of that using one Phanteks PWM Hub for the six fans. The units you linked from ModMyToys won't do it. The first item is just a way to connect many fans to one power source and is fed by a PSU 4-pin Molex FEMALE connector. The second item is an adapter cable that ends in a Molex MALE connector, so it won't fit into the first. (The second item is intended for use with a distribution PCB similar to the one you linked, but with an input connector of the 3-pin fan type. That adapter can power such a PCB from an PSU FEMALE Molex output. But the adapter can't connect from a mobo male fan header to a PCB with a MALE input Molex.)

BUT you need to have a PWM control signal to that Hub, and some control system that adjusts that signal according to the needs of the two cards. Your hope to do that control currently rests with Speedfan, but I am not at all sure you can get that to work. Speedfan is a software utility that works with the hardware on the mobo to take over the control mechanisms for fans. Its advantages over the mobo's built-in control systems are that it offers somewhat more flexible control strategies, and it offers access to and use of more inputs from temperature sensors. I don't know if you want the greater control strategies option, but you are counting on access to temperature sensors from your GPU cards on which to base control of their cooling systems. From the info on the Speedfan website I cannot tell whether that is possible. It is clear that it claims to know how to access temperature readings from lots of hardware units but NOT all, so you would have to contact them directly to verify for sure that it CAN read (and read correctly!) the temperatures on each GPU card you plan to use. MAYBE the card maker, EVGA, can help on that point, I don't know. But I would NOT bet on getting a "Yes" answer without taking to them directly and specifically about those cards. IF you are sure that Speedfan will do this for you, then you might be able to co-opt one of the mobo CHA_FAN headers to do your control for you, by having Speedfan force that control loop to use the GPU card temperature as its control basis.

Don't get hung up on Speed fan using Voltage Control Mode. Speedfan does not change how a mobo header puts out fan control signals - it only uses what the mobo headers can do. As it happens, your mobo's CHA_FAN headers can be configured for either type of control. So IF Speedfan can make this work, you should plan to use that CHA_FAN header in PWM Mode to control a Phanteks PWM Hub, and then connect all six GPU rad fans to that Hub.

Now, if you cannot be sure that Speedfan can access and use the temperature sensors in the GPU card(s), MAYBE there is a way to steal some info from the cards themselves. This depends entirely on how those cards control their own fans in the original configuration. IF it exercises control of its own fans using Voltage Control Mode, you're out of luck! There is no product I know of on the market to snag a Voltage Control signal (that is, a voltage signal ranging from 5 to 12 VDC intended to power a fan) and use it to create a new set of six (or more) fan ports for 3-pin fans using Voltage Control Mode, and with enough power to handle those six fans. IF the GPU cards use that fan type, my guess is that the power each card has available for the fans it comes with might not be enough to run six of your chosen fans. (Well, maybe stretching a little, even powering three fans from each card with custom wiring.) HOWEVER, IF the GPU cards from EVGA actually use PWM fan types, then EVGA might tell you where to tap into the PWM signal on a card. Then you could mod the card to get that signal and take it out to the PWM signal input pin on a Phanteks PWM Hub, and let the Hub power and control your six fans for the GPU rads. That's a lot of "if's" and figuring out to do.