Multiple Airport routers...

[Ichinisan]

I've been helping a guy over the phone. He has a large house and the WiFi coverage from his previous-gen Time Capsule won't cover everything. He already had an Airport Express operating in repeater mode one floor away (I think it was one floor down). I suggested having someone add a network line to another room of the house where there's little-to-no WiFi signal from the Time Capsule, then install the Express there in bridged/AP mode. He had the network line installed. Instead of using the Express, he purchased a current-gen AirPort Extreme; which should be no problem at all. I walked him through enabling bridged mode. We also changed it from "extend a wireless network" to "create a wireless network" (to make sure it wasn't acting as a WDS repeater and cutting throughput in half).

Now, the strange part...

When he connects his MacBook Pro to the Extreme over WiFi, it's terribly slow (< 1mbps). When he connects to a wired LAN port on the Extreme, it's still MUCH slower than it should be on his 30m Internet connection (around 11mbps). When he disconnects the Extreme from the new network line and hooks his MacBook Pro directly to the wall outlet, he gets full-speed 30mbps.

What the heck is going on?!

 

[Kaido]

So he has the second Airport Extreme plugged into an Ethernet cable, acting as a WAP? Is it on a different channel?

 

[Ichinisan]

So he has the second Airport Extreme plugged into an Ethernet cable, acting as a WAP? Is it on a different channel?

Yes. The Extreme was configured to behave as an AP and the Time Capsule connected to the cable modem. The Time Capsule provided DHCP IPs for the LAN.

I believe the channel was set to Auto. I didn't want to override anything there because I don't know how that would affect 802.11ac and beamforming. As I understand it, they're far enough away from each other now that it wouldn't even matter if they were in the same channel (though I assume they will avoid overlapping while both are set to "auto").

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Change the SSID on the new device.

Macs and iOS devices are VERY stubborn about WiFi. If they formed a connection with the WAP upstairs, they will cling to that connection come hell or high water, even if there's a network with a much stronger signal RIGHT THERE, as long as they can even sort of see "their" WAP. It's easier just to connect to "downstairs wifi" and "upstairs wifi." (With laptops, sleeping/waking will usually reconnect, but iOS devices maintain WiFi connections in their sleep so the switch would have to be manual.)

Ubuquiti base stations have a roaming network mode which makes all the WAPs fake the same MAC address and is transparent to the client devices. I wish I had the money to burn on that now.

 

[KeithP]

You could try using Wireless Diagnostics to check what the best channel would be.
http://osxdaily.com/2013/12/11/find-best-wi-fi-channel-wireless-tool-mac/

Also, is there any chance a double NAT situation is going on?

-KeithP

 

[Ichinisan]

No double NAT. Bridge mode is enabled on the second device. It's not configured to extend a network (so it's not in repeater mode). Also, the wireless channel shouldn't be a factor. Even a wired connection through the Extreme is slow.

Anyway, he reconfigured his setup with the Extreme where the Time Capsule used to be and set everything up from scratch. Then it seemed to work fine from either place. He's going to exchange the current-gen Extreme for a current-gen Time Capsule and replace his existing previous-gen Time Capsule with it. Then he's just going to use an Airport Express in the other room.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Oh... if the wired connections are slow too, I'd start checking wiring.

Like the prof says, "always check Layer 1."

 

[CZroe]

Oh... if the wired connections are slow too, I'd start checking wiring.

Like the prof says, "always check Layer 1."

The wired connection is only slow through the Extreme, wired or wireless. As he said in the OP, bypassing the Extreme and connecting the notebook directly to the new drop works great.

 

[vbuggy]

Which socket is the LAN cable connected to on the Extreme?

 

[Ichinisan]

Which socket is the LAN cable connected to on the Extreme?

The jack from the wall (which led to the room with the Time Capsule) was connected to the Extreme on the correct WAN port (the port with the ring of dots symbol).

When we tested a wired connection, the MacBook was plugged into one of the LAN ports ("<...>") on the AirPort Extreme.

 

[vbuggy]

Hmm. Just checking, you never know with Apple users who profess (nay, usually insist) any degree of technical competency - and NAT is definitively turned off and you have no other warnings in Airport Utility?

I also noticed that you did 'create a network' and not 'join a network via Ethernet' (or something like that, I forget) - I'd suggest setting up the 'base' wireless network on the Time Crapsule, then joining other Airports to it. Macs aren't particularly stubborn about Wifi, they have crap Wifi, but they aren't in my experience any more stubborn about keeping a connection than a typical Windows notebook.

I've not actually used the LAN ports on my Extremes since I just use them as a Mac/iOS dedicated wireless network since they can't hold a stable connection with my regular AP's (which most of my non-Mac systems appear to have no problems with, I point you to the crap wifi comment above), and I no longer own a Crapsule. But as far as the speed thing for the LAN ports, bridging is not switching and I'm thinking that may be processor-bound on the Extreme. My guess is that you'll get device-speed transfer if you test with two Macs on the Extreme LAN ports. Next time I'm rooting around at home I might get around to connecting Mombooks to it and testing speed. Until then, it's purely a guess.

The slow wireless thing is probably a) still not set up correctly and may even still be working as a repeater or b) a siting issue. I've had to dot my Airports out at fairly regular intervals to make sure I get a signal.

 

[Ichinisan]

Hmm. Just checking, you never know with Apple users who profess (nay, usually insist) any degree of technical competency - and NAT is definitively turned off and you have no other warnings in Airport Utility?

I know what you mean. Anyway, I was telling him which options to select over the phone. I had to follow along using the AirPort Utility for Windows, so my options weren't in exactly the same places, but he eventually found each option in his Mac AirPort utility and set it accordingly. Bridged (AP) mode and "create a wireless network" (to make absolutely sure it wasn't operating as a WDS repeater).

I also noticed that you did 'create a network' and not 'join a network via Ethernet' (or something like that, I forget) - I'd suggest setting up the 'base' wireless network on the Time Crapsule, then joining other Airports to it. Macs aren't particularly stubborn about Wifi, they have crap Wifi, but they aren't in my experience any more stubborn about keeping a connection than a typical Windows notebook.

I suppose I don't have that option since I only had one AirPort device. I did see the "Extend a network..." option on mine. It seemed to be talking about WDS mode (where both APs have to repeat everything and bandwidth is cut in half). I didn't want to trust that it would be smart enough to use Ethernet, so I recommended choosing the option to create a wireless network so it could have an SSID that describes its location (example: "AX - Basement").

I've not actually used the LAN ports on my Extremes since I just use them as a Mac/iOS dedicated wireless network since they can't hold a stable connection with my regular AP's (which most of my non-Mac systems appear to have no problems with, I point you to the crap wifi comment above), and I no longer own a Crapsule. But as far as the speed thing for the LAN ports, bridging is not switching and I'm thinking that may be processor-bound on the Extreme. My guess is that you'll get device-speed transfer if you test with two Macs on the Extreme LAN ports. Next time I'm rooting around at home I might get around to connecting Mombooks to it and testing speed. Until then, it's purely a guess.

The slow wireless thing is probably a) still not set up correctly and may even still be working as a repeater or b) a siting issue. I've had to dot my Airports out at fairly regular intervals to make sure I get a signal.

I suppose it's possible he still never correctly saved the settings I directed him to. If I recall, I think we checked his private LAN IP when he was wired into the AX and it was from the Time Capsule's subnet.

He says he worked it out by reversing them and reconfiguring from scratch. I can't trust that he did it correctly. My guess is that now he probably has 2 separate LANs and devices on one can't necessarily see devices on another. Anyway, since it worked better when he swapped the roles of the devices, I'm guessing there was some kind of compatibility issue with the current-gen AX and the previous-gen TC. He's getting a newer TC (his employer will pay for it), so we'll see if he has any trouble getting these things to play nice then...