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Multiculturism a Factor Turning Moderate Muslims Radical in Europe

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,726
2
81
This is an interesting and enlightening article which spells out why Europe is having so many Islamic related issues and I don?t think it has limited it self to just Europe either;


Multiculturism a Factor Turning Moderate Muslims Radical

March 6, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Britain's Daily Mail, Jan. 29, 2007, reported in the article "Multiculturalism drives young Muslims to shun British values":

Multiculturalism has alienated an entire generation of young Muslims and made them increasingly radical, a report has found. In stark contrast with their parents, growing numbers sympathize with extreme teachings of Islam, with almost four in 10 wanting to live under Sharia law in Britain. The study identifies significant support for wearing the veil in public ... and even punishment by death for Muslims who convert to another religion. Most alarmingly, 13 percent of young Muslims said they "admired" organizations such as al-Qaida which are prepared to "fight the West."
Germany's Spiegel, Dec. 20, 2007, reported in the article "Interior Ministry warns of radicalization of Muslims":

A new study released by Germany's Interior Ministry has added new fuel to the debate about integration of Muslims in Germany, with the report warning about the danger of radicalization of Muslims. According to the study ... 40 percent of Muslims surveyed had a "fundamentalist orientation" ... 6 percent of those surveyed were classified as having "violent tendencies," while 14 percent of respondents had "anti-democratic" tendencies. ... The report also concluded that religious beliefs are becoming increasingly important for young people.
Europe is wondering why fundamental Islam is not assimilating, - history may reveal the reason.

The word "Islam" means submission to the will of Allah, and a "Muslim" is someone who has submitted. A "dhimmi" is an inferior non-Muslim coerced to submit.

Muhammad divided the world into two parts: those who have submitted and those yet to submit. He called these two parts the House of Islam and the House of War, pronounced in Arabic "dar al-Islam" and "dar al-harb
I think Europe is slowly but surely submitting and the US, Canada and Australia won?t be too far behind. In the US we are already giving Muslims payer time/rooms in some schools and workplaces, foot baths at air ports, cashiers at places like Wal-Mart that can refuse to ring up pork products, and yesterday on the news I heard that Muslims at Harvard want their own gym time separate from all other students and will likely get it.


Don?t expect any help from moderate Muslims either;

Since there is no one theological body governing all of Islam, faithful Muslims have developed differing views.

Moderate Muslims think the remaining area of the world will submit to Allah in the distant future, maybe at the Hour of Judgment. Therefore, since it is so far off, it is acceptable to get along with non-Muslims in the present.

Fundamental violent Muslims think the rest of the world is submitting to Allah now and feel it is Islam's "manifest destiny" to make it happen. They would just as soon fight moderate Muslims, considering them backslidden from following the example of Muhammad and the caliphs.

Moderate Muslims are hesitant to speak out against fundamental violent Muslims, as occasionally one does and they are threatened, intimidated, forced to change their names for protection, have fatwas put on them and even killed.

So there could, in a sense, be three groups of Muslims: a minority of fundamental violent ones; a majority of moderate ones who are afraid of the fundamental violent ones; and the courageous dead ones who were not afraid of the fundamental violent ones.

The West may be inadvertently fueling the problem by not understanding that fundamental Muslims interpret their "politeness" as weakness or submission.
Sounds like the West is traveling down a road with no brakes, no off ramp, no way to stop.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
The state needs to be strictly secular, however if private enterprise feels it's in their best interest to accommodate fundieness, more power to them.

Cashier's refusing to ring up pork is no different than crazy Christians refusing to release birth control for prescription... the backslash will cost them business and they'll change the policy.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
141
116
Originally posted by: Socio
In the US we are already giving Muslims payer time/rooms in some schools and workplaces, foot baths at air ports, cashiers at places like Wal-Mart that can refuse to ring up pork products, and yesterday on the news I heard that Muslims at Harvard want their own gym time separate from all other students and will likely get it.
Question: What do you think is worse?

A) Giving Muslims prayer time, gym time, foot baths, etc.

B) Giving Christians Faith-Based Educational Control Over Schools

I pick B.

I would say multiculturalism is turning moderate Christians radical as well. Look at the outcry in the past few years against abortion, gay rights, "under God", creationism in schools, etc.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
The culture of a foreign people is seeping into ours and the more we accommodate them the more we make it worse. Force assimilation. Rinse and repeat. I think I've read this chapter before.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: Farang
The culture of a foreign people is seeping into ours and the more we accommodate them the more we make it worse. Force assimilation. Rinse and repeat. I think I've read this chapter before.
It is seeping more and more..and I like it..its necessary.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
bla bla bla this is such bullshit. This entire article is simply propaganda and nothing more. Most of it is simply B.S. I'll cherry pick one part for fun:

Moderate Muslims think the remaining area of the world will submit to Allah in the distant future, maybe at the Hour of Judgment. Therefore, since it is so far off, it is acceptable to get along with non-Muslims in the present.


I've NEVER met a Muslim who has thought what is bolded.

All of this is the "analysis" by "experts on Islam" who make up their own bullshit as they go along. There are already enough problems with purposely pulling things out of context to make it seem worse, we don't need pure tripe made up.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: magomago
bla bla bla this is such bullshit. This entire article is simply propaganda and nothing more. Most of it is simply B.S. I'll cherry pick one part for fun:

Moderate Muslims think the remaining area of the world will submit to Allah in the distant future, maybe at the Hour of Judgment. Therefore, since it is so far off, it is acceptable to get along with non-Muslims in the present.


I've NEVER met a Muslim who has thought what is bolded.

All of this is the "analysis" by "experts on Islam" who make up their own bullshit as they go along. There are already enough problems with purposely pulling things out of context to make it seem worse, we don't need pure tripe made up.
Regardless of the topic or the alleged authority of the author, I tend to disregard any ideas that are supported with statements like "Moderate Muslims think...". Broad generalizations about actions are bad enough, but when someone is attempting to make their case with mind reading, my BS detector starts going absolutely crazy. It's the intellectually lazy way of arguing, because you can put whatever thoughts you like into the minds of the people you're talking about.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: magomago
Moderate Muslims think the remaining area of the world will submit to Allah in the distant future, maybe at the Hour of Judgment. Therefore, since it is so far off, it is acceptable to get along with non-Muslims in the present.


I've NEVER met a Muslim who has thought what is bolded.
Excellent. So no muslims believe that it's acceptable to get along with non-muslims in the present. Glad you came out and said it.

Can we get a bunker buster on the Kaaba in the next 6 minutes? Thanks.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
The West may be inadvertently fueling the problem by not understanding that fundamental Muslims interpret their "politeness" as weakness or submission.
This is the big problem. With Islam and with illegal immigrants from Central America. We make concessions, try to make them feel at home. Back in the day, immigrants were forced to assimilate to our culture. Our behavior as a society is making them think, "Well, they must not be too attached to their lifestyle, since they adapted to mine so quickly."
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
More hate spewing from the right against a group.

Back in the day, immigrants were forced to assimilate to our culture.
Ya, those 'no dogs or Irish allowed' policies were the better way to do it.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: magomago
Moderate Muslims think the remaining area of the world will submit to Allah in the distant future, maybe at the Hour of Judgment. Therefore, since it is so far off, it is acceptable to get along with non-Muslims in the present.


I've NEVER met a Muslim who has thought what is bolded.
Excellent. So no muslims believe that it's acceptable to get along with non-muslims in the present. Glad you came out and said it.

Can we get a bunker buster on the Kaaba in the next 6 minutes? Thanks.
I don't like to respond to your posts because I think you are barely human (notice how for a long time I never have), but stop trying to twist my words.

I've NEVER met a muslim who has rationalized interacting with non muslims on the basis of "its acceptable in the short term, but in the long term we must bla bla bla *insert lies and spin*"

Originally posted by: Craig234
More hate spewing from the right against a group.

Back in the day, immigrants were forced to assimilate to our culture.
Ya, those 'no dogs or Irish allowed' policies were the better way to do it.
Lets not forget the Chinese Exclusion Act, and the Gentlemens Agreement to keep out further immigration of Japanese.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,240
3,778
126
Originally posted by: halik
Cashier's refusing to ring up pork is no different than crazy Christians refusing to release birth control for prescription... the backslash will cost them business and they'll change the policy.
No different you say? One preaches, the other cuts your head off or assassinates you.

Your words ring hallow compared to the actions of each group. The differences are CRYSTAL CLEAR, and the blood of westerners and their distain for us shows it.

Originally posted by: Craig234
More hate spewing from the right against a group.
I'd call September 11th and 10,000+ terrorist attacks across the globe plenty of hatred spewed AT us. Yet you don't give a **** how many westerners die, so long as you can have your own personal vendetta against the Republican Party.

Some of us hate those who kill us. Others among us praise them and call them a protected group. Therein is our civil war.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: halik
Cashier's refusing to ring up pork is no different than crazy Christians refusing to release birth control for prescription... the backslash will cost them business and they'll change the policy.
No different you say? One preaches, the other cuts your head off or assassinates you.

Your words ring hallow compared to the actions of each group. The differences are CRYSTAL CLEAR, and the blood of westerners and their distain for us shows it.
The women at target who didn't want to scan the product threatened to chop off the customers head or assassinate them?

Now now, we shouldn't make a scenario seem to be what it is not. Even the Somali cab drivers didn't threaten to severe the heads of those toting alcohol
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,240
3,778
126
Originally posted by: magomago
The women at target who didn't want to scan the product threatened to chop off the customers head or assassinate them?
That was a generalization. Obviously you watch/read the news and know what their brethren are up to. The attacks are constant, and the infection of that radicalization is what drives them to demand divisiveness over unity.

It?s the hallmark is Islamic Supremacy and that is our killer. That is what they refuse to denounce and what we must force them to denounce.

It?d be like you standing up and telling me KKK members who don?t serve blacks at the checkout aren?t really KKK members. A white supremacist is a white supremacist. So is an Islamic Supremacist.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: magomago
The women at target who didn't want to scan the product threatened to chop off the customers head or assassinate them?
That was a generalization. Obviously you watch/read the news and know what their brethren are up to. The attacks are constant, and the infection of that radicalization is what drives them to demand divisiveness over unity.

It?s the hallmark of Islamic Supremacy and that is our killer. That is what they refuse to denounce and what we must force them to denounce.
That was a really bad generalization. He made a comparison that its no different from crazy Christians refusing to release birth control, and you countered saying that the former doesn't threaten to kill you. That simply...isn't true. And if we are going to talk about generalizations - considering we are talking about Muslims in our own country we should at least make sure it applies to them first.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,240
3,778
126
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
That was a generalization. Obviously you watch/read the news and know what their brethren are up to. The attacks are constant, and the infection of that radicalization is what drives them to demand divisiveness over unity.

It?s the hallmark of Islamic Supremacy and that is our killer. That is what they refuse to denounce and what we must force them to denounce.

It?d be like you standing up and telling me KKK members who don?t serve blacks at the checkout aren?t really KKK members. A white supremacist is a white supremacist. So is an Islamic Supremacist.
That was a really bad generalization. He made a comparison that its no different from crazy Christians refusing to release birth control, and you countered saying that the former doesn't threaten to kill you. That simply...isn't true. And if we are going to talk about generalizations - considering we are talking about Muslims in our own country we should at least make sure it applies to them first.
An adherent to a violent Supremacy is still in the wrong. If they do not denounce their brethren, they support them. The outward signs of that Supremacy is all we need to know about their loyalty to the violence and their disdain for infidels.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
That was a generalization. Obviously you watch/read the news and know what their brethren are up to. The attacks are constant, and the infection of that radicalization is what drives them to demand divisiveness over unity.

It?s the hallmark of Islamic Supremacy and that is our killer. That is what they refuse to denounce and what we must force them to denounce.

It?d be like you standing up and telling me KKK members who don?t serve blacks at the checkout aren?t really KKK members. A white supremacist is a white supremacist. So is an Islamic Supremacist.
That was a really bad generalization. He made a comparison that its no different from crazy Christians refusing to release birth control, and you countered saying that the former doesn't threaten to kill you. That simply...isn't true. And if we are going to talk about generalizations - considering we are talking about Muslims in our own country we should at least make sure it applies to them first.
An adherent to a violent Supremacy is still in the wrong. If they do not denounce their brethren, they support them. The outward signs of that Supremacy is all we need to know about their loyalty to the violence and their disdain for infidels.
So its basically "you are with us, otherwise you are against us"? That won't win you many friends anywhere regardless of where they stand
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,240
3,778
126
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
It?d be like you standing up and telling me KKK members who don?t serve blacks at the checkout aren?t really KKK members. A white supremacist is a white supremacist. So is an Islamic Supremacist.
An adherent to a violent Supremacy is still in the wrong. If they do not denounce their brethren, they support them. The outward signs of that Supremacy is all we need to know about their loyalty to the violence and their disdain for infidels.
So its basically "you are with us, otherwise you are against us"? That won't win you many friends anywhere regardless of where they stand
If someone is going to deny me pork in the 21st century, in a western nation, because of a 7th century religion, then that person can go screw themselves, yes. Hearts and minds are for those who do not support a violence supremacy.

This is no different than if a white person refused to serve a black man. That is white supremacy and there?s no negotiation. Same for Islamic Supremacy. To treat it any differently is to pretend there should be legitimacy behind it. It is to appease and in some way condone it. That is wrong.
 

Skyclad1uhm1

Lifer
Aug 10, 2001
11,383
87
91
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: magomago
Moderate Muslims think the remaining area of the world will submit to Allah in the distant future, maybe at the Hour of Judgment. Therefore, since it is so far off, it is acceptable to get along with non-Muslims in the present.


I've NEVER met a Muslim who has thought what is bolded.
Excellent. So no muslims believe that it's acceptable to get along with non-muslims in the present. Glad you came out and said it.

Can we get a bunker buster on the Kaaba in the next 6 minutes? Thanks.
I've never met a Nebor who was any less inhumane and murderous than Bin Laden.

So I guess that means you'll have to go to Guantanamo Bay, following your reasoning.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
More holy war FUD from the radical right. Go fight your own dirty/holy war, I didn't piss the Islamic extremists off, people like you did.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: halik
Cashier's refusing to ring up pork is no different than crazy Christians refusing to release birth control for prescription... the backslash will cost them business and they'll change the policy.
No different you say? One preaches, the other cuts your head off or assassinates you.

Your words ring hallow compared to the actions of each group. The differences are CRYSTAL CLEAR, and the blood of westerners and their distain for us shows it.

Originally posted by: Craig234
More hate spewing from the right against a group.
I'd call September 11th and 10,000+ terrorist attacks across the globe plenty of hatred spewed AT us. Yet you don't give a **** how many westerners die, so long as you can have your own personal vendetta against the Republican Party.

Some of us hate those who kill us. Others among us praise them and call them a protected group. Therein is our civil war.
Holly rollers fire bombing abortion clinics is the same thing... I have yet to meet a cashier that wanted to chop my head off for ringing up porch chops.

I take it idiotic hyperboles are your specialty?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,576
431
126
Originally posted by: Nebor
The West may be inadvertently fueling the problem by not understanding that fundamental Muslims interpret their "politeness" as weakness or submission.
This is the big problem. With Islam and with illegal immigrants from Central America. We make concessions, try to make them feel at home. Back in the day, immigrants were forced to assimilate to our culture. Our behavior as a society is making them think, "Well, they must not be too attached to their lifestyle, since they adapted to mine so quickly."
I think something along these lines is accurate. I don't believe that Western nations have stood behind their ideals as not being wrong, merely different. I deplore the person who lives in the West and rails against its moral degeneracy - which I find highly ironic considering the highly sexually charged air in countries like Pakistan where everyone's supposedly a saint.

I think Tony Blair said this better than I could articulate:

Look, we?ve got a problem even in our own Muslim communities in Europe who will half buy into some of the propaganda that?s pushed at it - the purpose of America is to suppress Islam; you know, Britain?s joined with America in the suppression of Islam.

And one of the things we?ve got to stop doing is stop apologizing for our own positions. Muslims in America, as far as I?m aware of, are free to worship.

Muslims in Britain are free to worship. We have plural societies.

You know, it?s nonsense. The propaganda is nonsense. And we?re not going to defeat this ideology until we in the West go out with sufficient confidence in our position and say, This is wrong. It?s not just wrong in its methods; it?s wrong in its ideas, it?s wrong in its ideology, it?s wrong in every single wretched reactionary thing about it.

And it will be a long struggle, I?m afraid. But there?s no alternative but to stay the course with it. And we will.
Multiculturalism is a failed policy in Canada. Here, we look at the divisiveness of Great Britain and see our future. Again, I think that someone else, this time the mayor of the city of Mississauga, can better explain:

Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion criticized federal multicultural funding as dividing immigrants instead of uniting them, and called for better integration of newcomers.

"An awful lot of money is spent on multiculturalism and on keeping our immigrants separated rather than integrated," Ms. McCallion said in an interview.

"They've been given all kinds of money over the years to have their own organization, their own programs, and I think there should be more money spent on integration, in other words, encouraging them to get involved in all the organizations within a community like the service clubs and the sports groups."

Ms. McCallion said she knows the value of cultural groups and does not want to "cut off" their funding.

However, she argues in favour of stepping up outreach efforts that help integrate the growing number of new residents who are choosing to live in the cities outside of Toronto.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: magomago
Moderate Muslims think the remaining area of the world will submit to Allah in the distant future, maybe at the Hour of Judgment. Therefore, since it is so far off, it is acceptable to get along with non-Muslims in the present.


I've NEVER met a Muslim who has thought what is bolded.
Excellent. So no muslims believe that it's acceptable to get along with non-muslims in the present. Glad you came out and said it.

Can we get a bunker buster on the Kaaba in the next 6 minutes? Thanks.
I've never met a Nebor who was any less inhumane and murderous than Bin Laden.

So I guess that means you'll have to go to Guantanamo Bay, following your reasoning.
Both sides of the fight will have those willing to speak clearly, and say what needs to be done.

Bin Laden is a scrappy fighter, making due with few resources. I don't take any comparison to him as an insult.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,240
3,778
126
Originally posted by: halik
Holly rollers fire bombing abortion clinics is the same thing... I have yet to meet a cashier that wanted to chop my head off for ringing up porch chops.

I take it idiotic hyperboles are your specialty?
Go count those attacks up compared to Islamic Terrorism. They're dwarfed AT LEAST 1000 to 1, and yet you think they even compare to one another? We also execute and jail such radicals, we don?t go marching out into the streets to praise them. We don?t burn effigies of those who are attacked in support of the attacker.

So I take it you?d fervently point out what black people did horribly wrong if a white supremacist was refusing to serve them because of race? You?re pointing out what infidels do wrong in the face of Islamic Supremacists who openly disdain us.
 

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