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MT tests 2011 Mustang GT vs 2010 M3

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Arkaign said:
Huh? The 2011 model just threw that whole POV on it's head. 2010 and earlier, I'd agree in a heartbeat, but the 2011 V6 is just as fast as the 2010 V8 GT, and oddly it handles better. 0-60 in very very low 5s (I think the MT first test was at 5.1), quarter in the 13s, it's definitely not a Mustang without the power. Sure it's not a total ass whooper like the new 5.0, but it's one god damned helluva bargain. It is around the same price range as stuff like MazdaSpeed3, GTI, WRX (non-STI), etc, and is faster along with shockingly good skidpad, slalom, and braking scores.
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Like I said above though, you have to factor in that every Camry and Maxima now has 300 HP V6s. If the "non performance" V6 Mustang couldn't even pace a Camry.... yeah, as popular as it is, people who don't even care about performance would have to pause for a second to think about that.

It's all relative 🙂
 
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crazySOB297 said:
The new Boss 302 should outpace the M3... by a nice margin too. Score one for Ford.
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I'm honestly not so sure. On a snarly track like the one Top Gear uses, the M3's brakes and suspension probably make quite a difference.

On the other hand, Ford will reputedly be selling a bolt-on blower good for over 600HP, and, at $8k, it's not too expensive either. Combine with a few factory suspension upgrades and you'll leave the M3 behind.

I guess the question is what you want. If you want a nice, quiet, and luxurious daily driver that you can take to the track on occasion, you buy the M3 for about $60k. If you want something economical, you buy base Mustang - either version - for less than half as much. Or, if you want a manly-man car capable of ripping your face off, you buy an optioned-up 'Stang for $45k which can outrun light.

What I do like about the Mustang is that, from my standpoint, they've finally cracked it. It's a car available in a myriad array of configurations, all of them functional, and all available based on what you don't want. If you want a cheap car that goes 'round corners, they'll sell you one for $25k. If you want a big, soft convertible, they'll sell you one of those, too. Or you can get any level of engine tune - all from the factory. It's a tricky feat to pull off (especially because it's impossible to fit anything bigger than a tissue box in the engine bay - it's quite full!) but Ford has pulled it off.

It's also, notably, the first one I'd actually buy.
 
exdeath said:
Like I said above though, you have to factor in that every Camry and Maxima now has 300 HP V6s. If the "non performance" V6 Mustang couldn't even pace a Camry.... yeah, as popular as it is, people who don't even care about performance would have to pause for a second to think about that.

It's all relative 🙂
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If you want to get technical, the Camry has 268hp and only 248ft/lbs. The 2011 stang should be at least a full second quicker in 0-60 and the quarter which we know is a lot.
 
Arkaign said:
Huh? The 2011 model just threw that whole POV on it's head. 2010 and earlier, I'd agree in a heartbeat, but the 2011 V6 is just as fast as the 2010 V8 GT, and oddly it handles better. 0-60 in very very low 5s (I think the MT first test was at 5.1), quarter in the 13s, it's definitely not a Mustang without the power. Sure it's not a total ass whooper like the new 5.0, but it's one god damned helluva bargain. It is around the same price range as stuff like MazdaSpeed3, GTI, WRX (non-STI), etc, and is faster along with shockingly good skidpad, slalom, and braking scores.
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Specs don't say everything about the car. I test drove a 2010 GT (315hp) and a V6 2010 Camaro (304 hp) and it was a night and day experience. The Camaro was boring and lifeless. I don't care what the hell the specs said, it was awful and didn't feel like a sports car. It felt more like a Camry with a Camaro shell on it. The 2010 GT on the other hand was great. Great torque and felt like it had a lot more power than 315hp.

Again, to me, buying a V6 Mustang, even a 2011 Mustang, is like buying a V6 Vette. Even if it puts out 320hp, what is the point? So you can say you have a Vette?
 
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exdeath said:
Like I said above though, you have to factor in that every Camry and Maxima now has 300 HP V6s. If the "non performance" V6 Mustang couldn't even pace a Camry.... yeah, as popular as it is, people who don't even care about performance would have to pause for a second to think about that.

It's all relative 🙂
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Erm, I get your point, but the numbers are a bit fuzzy there.

2011 Maxima is 290hp/260tq, starts at $30k+, and hits 0-60 in 6.5.

2011 Camry comes in either a really anemic (for these purposes) but very practical i4, or a pretty decent V6, though still weaker than the Maxima. I also see easily at least 5 i4 camrys for every v6, just like the Accord, and the Mustang for that matter (v6 vs Gt in that case)

The 2011 Mustang V6 obliterates them for all intents and purposes in performance, unlike the 2010 and older V6 which would either tie or lose, which was pretty damned sad when you think about it. Maybe that was your point all along, but this thread has become a big muddled mess 😀

Your Terminator is still one holy hell of a beast.
 
JackBurton said:
Specs don't say everything about the car. I test drove a 2010 GT (315hp) and a V6 2010 Camaro (304 hp) and it was a night and day experience. The Camaro was boring and lifeless. I don't care what the hell the specs said, it was awful and didn't feel like a sports car. It felt more like a Camry with a Camaro shell on it. The 2010 GT on the other hand was great. Great torque and felt like it had a lot more power than 315hp.

Again, to me, buying a V6 Mustang, even a 2011 Mustang, is like buying a V6 Vette. Even if it puts out 320hp, what is the point? So you can say you have a Vette?
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Huh? It's exactly the opposite really. The point is not to get a V6 Mustang to brag about getting a Mustang, it's about getting a 305hp FR car with outstanding performance for a price that others can't match. It's a bargain, that's that. If a Vette put out 320hp, it would have to compete with 400hp Mustangs and be priced at $30k or less, which would not not only be impossible, but make no sense, so that analogy doesn't wash.

The V6 Camaro felt like shit because it's a really heavy beast at 3800lbs, it needs the V8 to really get it going. The 2011 V6 should feel just as ample as that 2010 GT, only difference is a little wider powerband and the torque hitting about 800rpm higher up.
 
Arkaign said:
Huh? It's exactly the opposite really. The point is not to get a V6 Mustang to brag about getting a Mustang, it's about getting a 305hp FR car with outstanding performance for a price that others can't match. It's a bargain, that's that. If a Vette put out 320hp, it would have to compete with 400hp Mustangs and be priced at $30k or less, which would not not only be impossible, but make no sense, so that analogy doesn't wash.

The V6 Camaro felt like shit because it's a really heavy beast at 3800lbs, it needs the V8 to really get it going. The 2011 V6 should feel just as ample as that 2010 GT, only difference is a little wider powerband and the torque hitting about 800rpm higher up.
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Sorry man, I just think it is a boring car (performance wise). Is it a bargain for what you get? Yes. Is it something I would consider a performance car? No. And when I think of a Mustang, I think of a performance muscle car, and the V6 ain't it.

If it were up to me, I'd take the 2010 GT over the 2011 V6 Mustang. They had some SERIOUS deals on the 2010 GT, so it should put the price right about equal, or VERY close.
 
JackBurton said:
Sorry man, I just think it is a boring car (performance wise). Is it a bargain for what you get? Yes. Is it something I would consider a performance car? No. And when I think of a Mustang, I think of a performance muscle car, and the V6 ain't it.

If it were up to me, I'd take the 2010 GT over the 2011 V6 Mustang. They had some SERIOUS deals on the 2010 GT, so it should put the price right about equal, or VERY close.
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If performance is #1 then you would do even better to pick up a 2003/2004 Cobra for an even bigger deal and throw an intake($150), exhaust (varies), tune ($300-400 including programmer and lifetime retuning), 2.76" upper pulley ($70) and port the stock blower ($500) for nearly 550 RWHP and forget about everything else that isn't at least twice the cost. If that's not enough for you, throw on a Kenne Bell 2.8 or Whipple 3.4 or twin turbo setup and crank it up past 20 psi.

Of course you give up a bit in ride comfort and build quality of the new platform and don't get the brand new car attention but you'll be nearly unbeatable if that's all you're into.
 
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exdeath said:
If performance is #1 then you would do even better to pick up a 2003/2004 Cobra for an even bigger deal and throw an intake($150), exhaust (varies), tune ($300-400 including programmer and lifetime retuning), 2.76" upper pulley ($70) and port the stock blower ($500) for nearly 550 RWHP and forget about everything else that isn't at least twice the cost. Of course you give up a bit in ride comfort and build quality of the new platform, but you'll be nearly unbeatable if that's what you're into.
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but then pay an insanely high insurance rate
 
zerocool84 said:
but then pay an insanely high insurance rate
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Insurance isn't high at all for a 8 year old Cobra. Cobras aren't wrecked by the dozens daily like the 16 yr olds in GTs for the first time and thus have lower risk and demographic profiles. When I first insured mine, I was surprised to learn that it was actually less to insure than a GT.
 
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Back-Road Surprise

But we already knew that the 2011 car was going to be quicker than last year’s model; we just didn’t expect Ford to dial up the entertainment value so high. All 2011 V-6 models sport revised suspension tuning, a standard limited-slip differential, and larger brakes—11.5 inches up front, 11.8 in the rear—and our tester also had Ford’s factory-installed Performance package ($1995), which will be available in late summer and essentially brings the car up to GT spec. In addition to the aforementioned Pirelli gumballs ($360 each) and 19-inch wheels, the kit includes the GT’s upgraded shocks, springs, and anti-roll bars; the V-6’s optional 3.31:1 rear axle (a 2.73:1 ring and pinion is standard); GT brake calipers with upgraded pads; a front strut-tower brace; a revised stability-control system with a more-liberal sport mode; and a couple of unique badges.

What results is a sharper, better-balanced whole that is an absolute blast to toss through the twisties. The V-6 may be only 60 pounds lighter than the new GT, but the difference feels greater from the driver’s seat; it’s more nimble and neutral-handling, with a surprising amount of feedback from the electric power-steering rack. Despite the solid-axle layout, our tester’s ride felt compliant and controlled, with little if any uneasiness during hard cornering on rough pavement.

We’ll say the steering is a bit too light for our liking, and the suspension tuning made for an occasional ass-out surprise during abrupt, high-speed directional changes. But we can’t fault the big-league numbers: a 152-foot stop from 70 mph and a neck-straining 0.95 g around the skidpad, both of which slightly better the 2011 GT’s and approach those of far more expensive stuff. We also didn’t notice any fade from the stock brakes, which should hold up fairly well even if you plan to hit the track regularly. (Did we just suggest frequent track use of a V-6 Mustang? I think we did.)
 
^^ Win. The GT is a killer, but the V6 is absolutely no joke, and stock v stock for the $, nothing short of a used car is going to touch it with a 100' pole.
 
Arkaign said:
^^ Win. The GT is a killer, but the V6 is absolutely no joke, and stock v stock for the $, nothing short of a used car is going to touch it with a 100' pole.
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I agree. For once you can't claim that the V6 is just a chick car. If I was in the car market I would seriously be considering a V6 stang because the amount of performance you get for the money is ridiculous.
 
exdeath said:
If performance is #1 then you would do even better to pick up a 2003/2004 Cobra for an even bigger deal and throw an intake($150), exhaust (varies), tune ($300-400 including programmer and lifetime retuning), 2.76" upper pulley ($70) and port the stock blower ($500) for nearly 550 RWHP and forget about everything else that isn't at least twice the cost. If that's not enough for you, throw on a Kenne Bell 2.8 or Whipple 3.4 or twin turbo setup and crank it up past 20 psi.

Of course you give up a bit in ride comfort and build quality of the new platform and don't get the brand new car attention but you'll be nearly unbeatable if that's all you're into.
Click to expand...

Actually, reliability is my number one concern. That is why I'm buying a new car. Performance is secondary.
 
JackBurton said:
Actually, reliability is my number one concern. That is why I'm buying a new car. Performance is secondary.
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Most cars are fairly reliable. Do your research and save the difference in price for maintenance.

I could never spend the coinage for a brand new E350 4Matic. Used however, is well within my reach and it has been decent so far. put in 54k km in 20 month so I work it hard.
 
brainhulk said:
the new gt is pretty sick. I guess the only thing else I would want is too put it on a diet and lose the live rear axle
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Going to independent suspension would be fantastic. Their number one buyer isn't looking forward to track days though, that's a smaller segment of their potential customers. Their primary customers are the same people that buy any other car, because they like the name or the look or the cupholders. Then there's the camaro/mustang guy that I know and love and wants just BEAT ON the car every day and have a car that won't break. Live axle wins at that for sure. And then there's the guy that wants fast, which is rare. But still, I think the car could benefit from independent.

I just picked up a 2007 GT. The suspension is a lot lot softer than what I'm used to, it's a bit annoying. But I am in California now, where the roads are worse than in any third world country. I'm glad I have the big boaty car here.

They should offer a package (do they?) that gives you real tires and much tighter suspension on these Mustangs. Would you believe that this Mustang GT with its 300 horsepower has 235 tires all around?
covered_wagon3.JPG


I want to get a supercharger so it has decent power for how massively boaty it is, and I want tires on it that are made for a car with this much power. Like it comes out of the gate not ready to perform. Oh well, top speed in this state is 30mph due to the dumbest drivers imaginable.
 
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TwinsenTacquito said:
I just picked up a 2007 GT. The suspension is a lot lot softer than what I'm used to, it's a bit annoying. But I am in California now, where the roads are worse than in any third world country. I'm glad I have the big boaty car here.

They should offer a package (do they?) that gives you real tires and much tighter suspension on these Mustangs. Would you believe that this Mustang GT with its 300 horsepower has 235 tires all around?
covered_wagon3.JPG


I want to get a supercharger so it has decent power for how massively boaty it is, and I want tires on it that are made for a car with this much power. Like it comes out of the gate not ready to perform. Oh well, top speed in this state is 30mph due to the dumbest drivers imaginable.
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how much does it weight?

and how fast do you want to accelerate to 30mph? 😛
 
Although I would never buy one, I was pretty impressed with the 2011 Mustang V6. But I am surprised one of its most amazing attributes haven't come up yet, the rated MPG. Can you name any other 300+ HP car with 0-60 in the mid 5 performance with 30+ MPG rated on the highway? That is a hard to beat formula.

Not even the "300" HP family sedans can pull that off. Not even close.

Hats off to ford, amazing job.
 
LTC8K6 said:
One reason the 3.7L V6 does better with economy is Borg-Warner's Cam-Torque Actuated Variable Valve Timing System...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q3/cam-torque_actuated_variable_valve_timing_system-tech_dept
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I'd say it has more to do with the super tall 6th gear. Like 1600rpm at 70mph.

Standard 6-speed manual
Gear ratios
1st 4.236
2nd 2.538
3rd 1.665
4th 1.238
5th 1.00
6th 0.70
Final drive 2.73 or 3.31

Optional 6-speed automatic
1st 4.171
2nd 2.340
3rd 1.521
4th 1.143
5th 0.867
6th 0.691
Final drive 2.73 or 3.31
 
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