MSU prof's e-mail outrages Muslims

[Iron Woode]

Hmmm....I was just reading the Michigan Free Press when I stumbled across a letter to the editors about this article in the paper:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060425/NEWS05/604250381

To be honest, I support the Prof in this situation. The right to free speech is far more important than your pride. I believe Indrek Wichman's email is not racist but says things that most Americans and most people around the world are thinking.

Does he deserve punishment for speaking his mind? No. If said Islamic student group would have responded with an intelligent dialogue with this professor, maybe things would be different. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Its just easier to deflect the issue by accusing him and hoping everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and forgets the real issues involved.

For the record I am not racist in any way. My boss is Muslim and feels the same way I do about this issue.

 

[Amplifier]

Repost!

Edit: Sorry I just can't tell one muslim outrage from another these days

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Repost!

Edit: Sorry I just can't tell one muslim outrage from another these days

Understandable.

no harm, no foul.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Don't forget about the thousands of rampaging Greek Orthodox hurling fire bombs and rocks, protesting against Rice in Greece. Where was the outrage ? !!!

Some tried to break a police ring surrounding the building where the two leaders met; police met the attempt by firing tear gas into the crowd, the BBC reported. Protesters hurled petrol bombs and stones in return.

Rice greeted by violent protests in Athens

 

[dahunan]

More displaced rage by a bunch of infants who didn't even read who he was addressing it to.. Did he address it to ALL muslims.. uh.. dee duh dee.. NO..


I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders," Wichman wrote.

 

[Aimster]

MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

 

[daniel49]

Quote:
"Naturally, I was very upset. I was disgusted. All of those emotions went through my body," said Azeez, 20, of Canton.


Why are they always upset by someone calling it what it is but never?


quote
"I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders," Wichman wrote

 

[Amplifier]

I think this is fitting.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Don't forget about the thousands of rampaging Greek Orthodox hurling fire bombs and rocks, protesting against Rice in Greece. Where was the outrage ? !!!

Some tried to break a police ring surrounding the building where the two leaders met; police met the attempt by firing tear gas into the crowd, the BBC reported. Protesters hurled petrol bombs and stones in return.

Rice greeted by violent protests in Athens

Those aren't Orthod...oh wait...ah I get it lol

But yea, so what was inaccurate about the prof's statement? When I see western Muslims defending the terrorist Muslims and/or keeping quiet about them, I have to assume they are supportive of them. This makes me suspicious of the western Muslims.

 

[ScottyB]

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

I agree.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: Iron WoodeTo be honest, I support the Prof in this situation. The right to free speech is far more important than your pride. I believe Indrek Wichman's email is not racist but says things that most Americans and most people around the world are thinking.

It has content that is not "inappropriate", although confused (1st amendment a "value" or a law?) and other content that is more strongly reprehensible - lumping all moslems together, calling them barbaric in various ways and telling them to leave.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

Care to prove any of the above?

I have a feeling you never actually sat down with a Muslim and had a discussion with one.

 

[ajaxtala]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

So what you're saying is that you have "no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about" Muslims? But you have a problem with it when it's about Jews? And that doesn't make you a hypocrite?

Can someone explain this to me?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
Hmmm....I was just reading the Michigan Free Press when I stumbled across a letter to the editors about this article in the paper:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060425/NEWS05/604250381

To be honest, I support the Prof in this situation. The right to free speech is far more important than your pride. I believe Indrek Wichman's email is not racist but says things that most Americans and most people around the world are thinking.

Does he deserve punishment for speaking his mind? No. If said Islamic student group would have responded with an intelligent dialogue with this professor, maybe things would be different. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Its just easier to deflect the issue by accusing him and hoping everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and forgets the real issues involved.

For the record I am not racist in any way. My boss is Muslim and feels the same way I do about this issue.

They attempted an intelligent dialogue

The Muslim Students' Association, along with 12 other student and advocacy groups, called Monday for the university to issue a letter of reprimand. They have met several times with university officials since Feb. 28 and went public with the e-mail Monday because the school had not acted.

Not saying the prof should get repimanded, as I agree with 1) What he says and 2) his right to say it, but nice to see some muslims trying to go about things the proper way before beheading people.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: ajaxtala

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

So what you're saying is that you have "no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about" Muslims? But you have a problem with it when it's about Jews? And that doesn't make you a hypocrite?

Can someone explain this to me?

Is that what you got from my post? Wow. What an idiot.

1. The reason they're hypocrites is because they spew hate all day along about other people, but if anybody draws a fvcking cartoon about their imaginary friend, its time for decapitations, kidnappings, and flag-burnings (no hate involved there, right?). Which would actually be fine if it was confined to their own ridiculous countries, but they expect to dictate what the law is in other countries as well. Sorry, but we've evolved past that, and I could give a ****** less what the Pope or Jerry Falwell thinks of the law. If you prefer to live in the Middle Ages, then go back home where they are in full swing.

2. Even if I don't like anti-Semitic speech, I will not attempt to STOP it from being said! Do you see the difference? As far as I'm concerned, they can say whatever the hell they want to in my country whether I like it or not, but then SO CAN THE PROFESSOR, whether they like it or not. If they can't handle that, then they should go back home; if they can, then they can say whatever they want about the Jews, me, or anyone else.

Now, let's see what you can fabricate from that.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ajaxtala

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

So what you're saying is that you have "no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about" Muslims? But you have a problem with it when it's about Jews? And that doesn't make you a hypocrite?

Can someone explain this to me?

Is that what you got from my post? Wow. What an idiot.

1. The reason they're hypocrites is because they spew hate all day along about other people, but if anybody draws a fvcking cartoon about their imaginary friend, its time for decapitations, kidnappings, and flag-burnings (no hate involved there, right?). Which would actually be fine if it was confined to their own ridiculous countries, but they expect to dictate what the law is in other countries as well. Sorry, but we've evolved past that, and I could give a ****** less what the Pope or Jerry Falwell thinks of the law. If you prefer to live in the Middle Ages, then go back home where they are in full swing.

2. Even if I don't like anti-Semitic speech, I will not attempt to STOP it from being said! Do you see the difference? As far as I'm concerned, they can say whatever the hell they want to in my country whether I like it or not, but then SO CAN THE PROFESSOR, whether they like it or not. If they can't handle that, then they should go back home; if they can, then they can say whatever they want about the Jews, me, or anyone else.

Now, let's see what you can fabricate from that.

How is this your country and not their country?

A Muslim can be an American too. Is it cause you are 'white' and follow the Bible?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

Care to prove any of the above?

I have a feeling you never actually sat down with a Muslim and had a discussion with one.

Buy an Arabic newspaper tomorrow, or tune in to the Fuhrer of Iran's next speech. Point proven.

All I'm saying is that Muslims can say whatever they want, even if its offensive to me or Jews or whoever, but in exchange, so can this professor, even if its offensive to Muslims. How you can possibly find fault in that, I have no idea.

I also wouldn't trust the Pope, or ANY OTHER religious fundamentalist to decide what constitutes free speech, either. Again, I don't understand why you'd disagree with that?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ajaxtala

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

So what you're saying is that you have "no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about" Muslims? But you have a problem with it when it's about Jews? And that doesn't make you a hypocrite?

Can someone explain this to me?

Is that what you got from my post? Wow. What an idiot.

1. The reason they're hypocrites is because they spew hate all day along about other people, but if anybody draws a fvcking cartoon about their imaginary friend, its time for decapitations, kidnappings, and flag-burnings (no hate involved there, right?). Which would actually be fine if it was confined to their own ridiculous countries, but they expect to dictate what the law is in other countries as well. Sorry, but we've evolved past that, and I could give a ****** less what the Pope or Jerry Falwell thinks of the law. If you prefer to live in the Middle Ages, then go back home where they are in full swing.

2. Even if I don't like anti-Semitic speech, I will not attempt to STOP it from being said! Do you see the difference? As far as I'm concerned, they can say whatever the hell they want to in my country whether I like it or not, but then SO CAN THE PROFESSOR, whether they like it or not. If they can't handle that, then they should go back home; if they can, then they can say whatever they want about the Jews, me, or anyone else.

Now, let's see what you can fabricate from that.

How is this your country and not their country?

A Muslim can be an American too. Is it cause you are 'white' and follow the Bible?

It is their country, as long as they're willing to live by its laws, including those protecting free speech. Don't tell me what I can't say, and I won't tell you what you can't say. Fair enough?

Like no other professor has ever said anything unpopular, right? I don't agree with Fox News either, but instead of trying to shut them up, I just TURN THE CHANNEL. Welcome to America.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

Care to prove any of the above?

I have a feeling you never actually sat down with a Muslim and had a discussion with one.

Buy an Arabic newspaper tomorrow, or tune in to the Fuhrer of Iran's next speech. Point proven.

All I'm saying is that Muslims can say whatever they want, even if its offensive to me or Jews or whoever, but in exchange, so can this professor, even if its offensive to Muslims. How you can possibly find fault in that, I have no idea.

I also wouldn't trust the Pope, or ANY OTHER religious fundamentalist to decide what constitutes free speech, either. Again, I don't understand why you'd disagree with that?

1) Arabs are 12% of the Muslim population
2) Iran doesn't say anything negative about Jews. It says negative stuff about the country of Israel.

You seem to lack an understanding of the Muslim population.

Maybe your problem is with Arabs and not Muslims. Have you ever thought about that? Majority of everything you described that you hate about Islam is done by Arabs who are only 12% of the Muslim population.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ajaxtala

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

So what you're saying is that you have "no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about" Muslims? But you have a problem with it when it's about Jews? And that doesn't make you a hypocrite?

Can someone explain this to me?

Is that what you got from my post? Wow. What an idiot.

1. The reason they're hypocrites is because they spew hate all day along about other people, but if anybody draws a fvcking cartoon about their imaginary friend, its time for decapitations, kidnappings, and flag-burnings (no hate involved there, right?). Which would actually be fine if it was confined to their own ridiculous countries, but they expect to dictate what the law is in other countries as well. Sorry, but we've evolved past that, and I could give a ****** less what the Pope or Jerry Falwell thinks of the law. If you prefer to live in the Middle Ages, then go back home where they are in full swing.

2. Even if I don't like anti-Semitic speech, I will not attempt to STOP it from being said! Do you see the difference? As far as I'm concerned, they can say whatever the hell they want to in my country whether I like it or not, but then SO CAN THE PROFESSOR, whether they like it or not. If they can't handle that, then they should go back home; if they can, then they can say whatever they want about the Jews, me, or anyone else.

Now, let's see what you can fabricate from that.

How is this your country and not their country?

A Muslim can be an American too. Is it cause you are 'white' and follow the Bible?

It is their country, as long as they're willing to live by its laws, including those protecting free speech. Don't tell me what I can't say, and I won't tell you what you can't say. Fair enough?

If they were born here it is their country just as much as it is your country.

You are no more a citizen than a natural born Muslim.

Not all Muslims are "Arab". A lot of Muslims were born in the United States. A lot of Muslims used to be Christian and converted. You hold no special status over them when it comes to this being "your" country.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
Hmmm....I was just reading the Michigan Free Press when I stumbled across a letter to the editors about this article in the paper:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060425/NEWS05/604250381

To be honest, I support the Prof in this situation. The right to free speech is far more important than your pride. I believe Indrek Wichman's email is not racist but says things that most Americans and most people around the world are thinking.

Does he deserve punishment for speaking his mind? No. If said Islamic student group would have responded with an intelligent dialogue with this professor, maybe things would be different. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Its just easier to deflect the issue by accusing him and hoping everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and forgets the real issues involved.

For the record I am not racist in any way. My boss is Muslim and feels the same way I do about this issue.

They attempted an intelligent dialogue

The Muslim Students' Association, along with 12 other student and advocacy groups, called Monday for the university to issue a letter of reprimand. They have met several times with university officials since Feb. 28 and went public with the e-mail Monday because the school had not acted.

Not saying the prof should get repimanded, as I agree with 1) What he says and 2) his right to say it, but nice to see some muslims trying to go about things the proper way before beheading people.

re: bolded part

with who? Did they sit down and discuss the prof's concerns? nope, they imediately demanded punishment for him exercising his right to his opinion.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Aimster
MSU has a high muslim population

the majority of them show symptoms of extremist behavior.

I am of course pulling this information out of my ( / ) but I find it reliable.

Actually, during the whole cartoon fiasco the campus Muslim group (don't remember the name) was out by the rock--ceremonial free speech area on campus--with signs that said "Hate speech is not free speech."

Excuse me if I don't trust Muslims to decide what constitutes free speech. If they want to be sheep, fine, but I'll say and draw whatever the hell I want. If they don't like it, they can go back home where they're told exactly what to say, what to think, and who to hate.

They have no problem whatsoever with "hate speech" as long as its about Jews. Hypocrites.

Care to prove any of the above?

I have a feeling you never actually sat down with a Muslim and had a discussion with one.

Buy an Arabic newspaper tomorrow, or tune in to the Fuhrer of Iran's next speech. Point proven.

All I'm saying is that Muslims can say whatever they want, even if its offensive to me or Jews or whoever, but in exchange, so can this professor, even if its offensive to Muslims. How you can possibly find fault in that, I have no idea.

I also wouldn't trust the Pope, or ANY OTHER religious fundamentalist to decide what constitutes free speech, either. Again, I don't understand why you'd disagree with that?

1) Arabs are 12% of the Muslim population
2) Iran doesn't say anything negative about Jews. It says negative stuff about the country of Israel.

You seem to lack an understanding of the Muslim population.

Maybe your problem is with Arabs and not Muslims. Have you ever thought about that? Majority of everything you described that you hate about Islam is done by Arabs who are only 12% of the Muslim population.

Ok, I'm with you on the rest...but you're going to try and separate "I hate Israel" babble from "I hate Jews"? Come on, man, you're trying way too hard. Prove me wrong, but don't get ridiculous about it. That man, and many more like him (Persian and Arab), is a rabid anti-Semite, and you KNOW it.

And where did I say "I hate" Muslims OR Arabs? One more time, all I'm saying is they can come to America and talk sh*t about anybody they want, but then SO CAN THE PROFESSOR who says bad things about Muslims. Period. If you're too thin-skinned to take what you dish out, then keep your mouth shut. I totally agree with him that speech and cartoons are NOTHING compared to hijackings, suicide bombers, decapitations, and so on. So howbout the Muslim students loudly denounce all of that, thereby helping to remove this professor's excuse?

 

[magomago]

nothing will happen. When a professor is tenured, unless he does something realllllly over the top the school can't touch him. One of my professors even joked how my college has nothing on him, so he doesn't care if the material doesn't even get taught (FYI: that was a self taught course pretty much).

Muslims don't have to "Come to America"...many are born here natively, and speak English as their first and primary language.

Ok, I'm with you on the rest...but you're going to try and separate "I hate Israel" babble from "I hate Jews"? Come on, man, you're trying way too hard. Prove me wrong, but don't get ridiculous about

Not to get too off topic, but you are telling me to criticize Isreal and criticize Jews are the same thing? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. If I say the Queen of England sucks, it doesn't mean I have anything against the Anglican Church since the royal family leads it