MSNBC Poll: Should President Bush be impeached?

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Furthermore, impeachment is only investigation, not conviction. If Bush is innocent he has nothing to worry about.

Actually, it's more than investigation, it's the equivalent of an indictment.

But it's also, as you said, less than a conviction.

But Bush has plenty to worry about, if he were innocent which he's not, because it's a major negative on him to be the third president impeached.

Although when we're 2 for 2 on politicized and groundless impeachments, it's starting to be a badge of honor.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

And I thank you for advertising my view, which I stand by.

Having gone to moveon meetings and seeing how they work, it's actually based on facts.

Of course, when I say 'moderate', I'm referring to the positions, not to their placement in current public opinion. I think Earl Warren was 'moderate', too.

At the time he was seen as an extremist liberal for decisions like Brown, but who today would say that opposing 'separate but equal' is anything but moderate?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Furthermore, impeachment is only investigation, not conviction. If Bush is innocent he has nothing to worry about.

Actually, it's more than investigation, it's the equivalent of an indictment.

But it's also, as you said, less than a conviction.

By definition, an indictment is the legal form of an accusation against a defendant, not a conviction.

indictment (in-dit'm?nt)

n.

1. a. The act of indicting.
   b. The condition of being indicted.
   
2. Law. A written statement charging a party with the commission of a crime or other offense, drawn up by a prosecuting attorney and found and presented by a grand jury.

There is only embarrassment, shame and dishonor in what the Bushwackos have done.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that MSNBC has a liberal slant because Bush is doing things that are legally wrong. Also, there is a massive majority of Americans whom honestly and truthfully believe Bush should be impeached and I wouldn't be surprised it's above 51%.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that MSNBC has a liberal slant because Bush is doing things that are legally wrong. Also, there is a massive majority of Americans whom honestly and truthfully believe Bush should be impeached and I wouldn't be surprised it's above 51%.

Good guess, last time Zogby polled it (which was awhile ago) support for impeachment was at 52%.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that MSNBC has a liberal slant

There are people in this thread doing just that.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that MSNBC has a liberal slant

There are people in this thread doing just that.

Reality has a liberal bias, at least since GWB went into office.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that MSNBC has a liberal slant

There are people in this thread doing just that.

Reality has a liberal bias, at least since GWB went into office.

:roll:

 

[Sinsear]

Nick!!! What's up?


For the record I don't think the President should be impeached.

 

[Duddy]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Nick!!! What's up?


For the record I don't think the President should be impeached.

Why?

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

What does MSNBC's slant have to do with the poll's results? Are you saying that MSNBC has manipulated the poll's results?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Did they take the poll down ???

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Did they take the poll down ???

No, it only works in IE. :roll:

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Furthermore, impeachment is only investigation, not conviction. If Bush is innocent he has nothing to worry about.

Actually, it's more than investigation, it's the equivalent of an indictment.

But it's also, as you said, less than a conviction.

By definition, an indictment is the legal form of an accusation against a defendant, not a conviction.

indictment (in-dit'm?nt)

n.

1. a. The act of indicting.
   b. The condition of being indicted.
   
2. Law. A written statement charging a party with the commission of a crime or other offense, drawn up by a prosecuting attorney and found and presented by a grand jury.

There is only embarrassment, shame and dishonor in what the Bushwackos have done.

You do realize you agreed with me, right?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that MSNBC has a liberal slant because Bush is doing things that are legally wrong. Also, there is a massive majority of Americans whom honestly and truthfully believe Bush should be impeached and I wouldn't be surprised it's above 51%.

Yes, I am denying MSNBC has a 'liberal slant' overall.

Tab, I'm having a hard time parsing your sentence, 'because Bush committed crimes'.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Craig234

You do realize you agreed with me, right?

Yep. I hope you don't mind. :thumbsup:

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
I said No. Bush hasn't committed what I consider "high crimes and misdemeanors" Presidents generally considered great have done bad things in times of war too. The idea that war can set back rights has existed since the founding father days.

You don't consider the warrantless wiretapping program a high crime and/or misdemeanor? He secretly and deliberately violated federal wiretapping laws to spy on American citizens without warrants in direct violation of both statutory authority and the 4th Amendment. What would he have to do in order to meet your standard?

If that was all that was needed to impeach a president, we would have had plenty of impeached presidents.

John Adams - Alien and Sedition Acts

Wilson- Sedition Acts

Roosevelt- Executive Order 9066

Johnson - Tonkin Gulf Resolution

In times of war, rights are sacrificed routinely

And no, I don't consider warrantless wiretapping high crime and misdemeanor. I consider a criminal cover up like Watergate impeachable. I consider perjury impeachable.

I'm not sure if you understand what we're talking about.

All of those things you mentioned (with the exception of Roosevelt) were statutes passed by congress that the president signed. That's not illegal. It may be found later that those statues passed were unconstitutional, but it's not impeachable to pass dumb laws.

What IS impeachable is violating the express letter of the law already on the books. Bush freely admits that he broke the law by ignoring FISA. That is a federal crime, a felony to be exact. In fact, the federal penalties for violating FISA ($10,000 fine and up to 5 years in jail) are much harsher then the penalties for perjury. (3 years max) Federal law obviously considers a violation of FISA as worse then perjury, can you explain why you do not? Do you support the president's ability to unilaterally declare himself exempt from lawfully enacted statutes? If so, why? If not, why is that not impeachable?

:thumbsup:

What he said.

Why any citizen would be willing to sacrifice their civil liberties and privacy on the alter of the Cheney/Bush ravings about war is a mystery to me.

I would go for impeachment and more. I don't care about Bush/Cheney's sex life. I sure as hell care about the destruction of our Country they have instigated.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Why any citizen would be willing to sacrifice their civil liberties and privacy on the alter of the Cheney/Bush ravings about war is a mystery to me.

I would go for impeachment and more. I don't care about Bush/Cheney's sex life. I sure as hell care about the destruction of our Country they have instigated.

"President Bush presents a clear and present danger to the rule of law."
- 2005, Bruce Fein, Asst. Deputy Attorney General under President Reagan

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: nick1985

I stand by my claim. If an unbiased polling group polled the nation, I would bet everything I own that the number favoring impeachment would not be 89%.

I agree with you the figure is lower. I disagree with you that it proves anything about MSNBC bias.

Look, I know its impossible to show you MSNBC has a liberal slant, so I wont even bother. By checking my sig you are the guy that thinks moveon.com is 'darned moderate', so I dont think I will waste my time.

What does MSNBC's slant have to do with the poll's results? Are you saying that MSNBC has manipulated the poll's results?

My point was that the people that frequent MSNBC's website most likely share their liberal views...making them more likely to vote for the impeachment option.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Craig234

You do realize you agreed with me, right?

Yep. I hope you don't mind. :thumbsup:

Ah, I got used to it

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Nick!!! What's up?


For the record I don't think the President should be impeached.

Hey man!

 

[JD50]

IMO, if they want to impeach then go ahead. If they have enough evidence where they think it would be successful, and they can prove that he actually did break the law, then good for them. As I've always said, if you can PROVE that Bush actually did break the law, then charge him. If he's convicted, I'll be right there with everyone else demanding the stiffest punishment possible.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Yes, I am denying MSNBC has a 'liberal slant' overall.

Well that's ridiculous. I believe that other's have pointed out that even MSNBC has admitted to having a liberal slant.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: JD50
IMO, if they want to impeach then go ahead. If they have enough evidence where they think it would be successful, and they can prove that he actually did break the law, then good for them. As I've always said, if you can PROVE that Bush actually did break the law, then charge him. If he's convicted, I'll be right there with everyone else demanding the stiffest punishment possible.

As JD50 misses the entire point. The JD50 delusion is that JD50 matters, when what matters is the 49 GOP Senators who will say no to conviction.

Its the GOP that stops impeachment and its a waste of time before at least 17 GOP senators grow a brain with an iota of principle.

But when it comes to proof positive that GWB&co are violating the constitution and should be removed from office, that was established definitely years ago.