Question MSI motherboards

[BoomerD]

In all my years of building PCs for myself and others, I've never used a MSI board. WAAAY back when, it seems like they just weren't considered to be quality. Nearly every rig I built was ASUS...with the odd ASRock thrown in when they were still a division of ASUS)

Nowadays, after doing several days of reading reviews and ratings, they seem to be leading the pack. (although their documentation suck when compared to ASUS and ASRock)

Am I reading things right? Is MSI now considered a "GOOD" brand? (looking at <$400 Z690 and Z790 DDR4 boards)

 

[igor_kavinski]

I have had nothing but Disappoint with MSI. Will never use again.

Can you please elaborate for our benefit? Which models did you use?

 

[Khanan]

B650E has PCIE 5 too for $200-350. The only thing I see on X670E is a few more lanes (not a big difference) and 40G USB. It's useless for the vast majority of consumers. Unlike a CPU or GPU there is no performance gain.

It has higher power delivery, clearly so, more lanes, more io, capability to be used for XOC. Not useful for you perhaps but to others

the analogy to GPUs is sound as well, nearly nobody needs that much performance and the card chokes itself in anything lower than 4K which nearly everyone uses as well.

 

[CP5670]

The top X670E boards do, but not the sub-$500 boards most people will buy. The Asrock B650E seems to have 24+2 phase VRM for $370, and many others have 16+2. It's not clear how much this even matters for Zen 4 overclocking. There is no reason to think that a cheaper X670E board will OC better than a top end B650E one, versus just chip lottery.

The GPU analogy is silly because the top ones actually perform much better despite their cost. It's the only PC component where that is still the case.

 

[Khanan]

Doesn’t really matter, it doesn’t really change anything about the points I made. And a comparison between a high end B650E and a low end X670E is more than moot

The GPU analogy is absolutely sound as nearly nobody needs as much performance as the 4090 provides, most not even 4080. Exact same as with X670E. There’s something else silly here…

 

[igor_kavinski]

The GPU analogy is absolutely sound as nearly nobody needs as much performance as the 4090 provides, most not even 4080.

Seems you haven't seen VR benchmarks.

RTX 4090 Performance – 45 Games, VR & Pro Apps Benchmarked

The $1599 RTX 4090 Performance of 45 Games, VR, SPEC, Pro Apps, Workstation & GPGPU BTR recently received a RTX 4090 Founders Edition (FE) from ... Read more

babeltechreviews.com

4090 FE isn't able to even double the framerates over the 3090 FE.

There is room for a $2000 4090 Ti.

 

[Khanan]

Seems you haven't seen VR benchmarks.

RTX 4090 Performance – 45 Games, VR & Pro Apps Benchmarked

The $1599 RTX 4090 Performance of 45 Games, VR, SPEC, Pro Apps, Workstation & GPGPU BTR recently received a RTX 4090 Founders Edition (FE) from ... Read more

babeltechreviews.com

4090 FE isn't able to even double the framerates over the 3090 FE.

There is room for a $2000 4090 Ti.

You’re firmly OT now, mods will be intervening. And you don’t have a new point, VR is as niche as it gets, absolutely underlining my point of the high end / enthusiast gpus being the same as mainboards that have too much performance or stuff. You realize that PCIE 5.0 extra IO is also a sort of performance? Theres a perfect analogy to useless extra performance almost nobody will use with GPUs. On the other hand, whoever can afford a 4090 will also 100% buy a 670E for 500+.

Also lol @ “2000$ 4090 Ti”, the 4090 is already 2000€ here and I doubt it’s different elsewhere.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Also lol @ “2000$ 4090 Ti”, the 4090 is already 2000€ here and I doubt it’s different elsewhere.

I meant MSRP.

 

[Khanan]

I meant MSRP.

Msrp isn’t relevant since the 2020s. Especially not with Nvidia. Even 3070s still oversell for 600€ here despite them being old gpus with only 8GB vram.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You’re firmly OT now, mods will be intervening. And you don’t have a new point, VR is as niche as it gets, absolutely underlining my point of the high end / enthusiast gpus being the same as mainboards that have too much performance or stuff.

What value do high end motherboards provide that matters to consumers NOW and will help them in their work/games NOW?

At least, 4090 is making the buyers pretty happy, regardless of all its warts (huge size being the biggest).

 

[Khanan]

What value do high end motherboards provide that matters to consumers NOW and will help them in their work/games NOW?

At least, 4090 is making the buyers pretty happy, regardless of all its warts (huge size being the biggest).

What value does an enthusiast gpu provide to someone using a 1080p or 1440p monitor?

At least X670E is making buyers pretty happy, regardless of all its warts.

here even edited it to be company agnostic

People don’t realize that GPUs have ample performance since 2020 and the new ones have so much performance that almost nobody really needs it, let alone pricing and the fact that they are called enthusiast gpus. The absolute same is true since a long time for mainboards as well. Mainboards are even more complicated than GPUs, they have multiple segments between chipsets and IN chipsets themselves.

 

[BoomerD]

I've heard good things about MSI BIOS. I had an MSI Geforce 1060 3GB that had military certified components (I know, marketing!) but it was a good card and I only sold it coz of the low VRAM. I still wouldn't get any budget oriented product from MSI. There was a used MSI P100-106 6GB mining card that I bought for a friend. It got so loud at default fan speeds that it scared the hell out of me. I was surprised that the fans still worked. Had to lower the fan speeds to 70% using MSI Afterburner to bring sanity back. My friend enjoyed using the card too (he refuses to plop down money on a decent 3D card coz he's not a gamer but does love the Tomb Raider series. So I gifted the card to him).

How do people here pronounce MSI? I go with M S I but I think it would be easier to just say, MASAYI !!!

Or Messi

Since MSI stands for Micro Star International...let's go with messi.

 

[igor_kavinski]

People don’t realize that GPUs have ample performance since 2020 and the new ones have so much performance that almost nobody really needs it, let alone pricing and the fact that they are called enthusiast gpus.

Make a thread about that under Graphics cards.

Please

 

[Khanan]

Make a thread about that under Graphics cards.

Please

You were partaking in the offtopic yourself, so you can do that, idgaf. Easy W for me btw. Laughing at me and other nonsense doesn't qualify as sensical argument

 

[igor_kavinski]

You were partaking in the offtopic yourself, so you can do that, idgaf. Easy W for me btw. Laughing at me and other nonsense doesn't qualify as sensical argument

You were the one who introduced a GPU analogy in a mobo thread...

 

[Khanan]

You were the one who introduced a GPU analogy in a mobo thread...

Yea well i didnt expect what happened after that

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yea well i didnt expect what happened after that

What are your current system specs and what are your workloads like?

 

[Khanan]

What are your current system specs and what are your workloads like?

1440p gamer with everything maxed out. 5800X3D + 2080 TI strix unlocked to matrix + high oc

 

[Ajay]

I have an MSI AM4 boards (in sig). Pretty pleased with it. Some bugs up front - but fixed in BIOS updates. Bit of a learning curve in BIOS coming from ASUS. I'd buy MSI again, but prefer ASUS.

 

[lopri]

A Quiz: Which is which?

I don't really care about overclocking. (I know...then why buy a "K" CPU?) I'd MUCH rather just buy something that works the way I want...and run it at stock. As for overpriced...doesn't seem that way, they're priced very competitively with the others. (except for high end stuff like the Godlike...and even that is pretty close to the same as the ASUS ROG high end.)

That is Gigabyte in my book.

Answer to the quiz: ASUS B560-F (left, $180 circa 2021) ASUS B650E-F (right, $300 as of now)

Edit: OK I can't remember the exact MSRP of B560-F. It was somewhere between $150 and $200

 

[BoomerD]

I went ahead and ordered the MSI MAG Z690 Tomahawk DDR4. Seems to have what I want/need in a motherboard at a reasonable price. I'd have LOVED to get one of the high end enthusiast boards, (ASUS ROG Maximus something, MSI GODLIKE, or Gigabyte Aorus Extreme...etc.) but my budget wouldn't stand such nonsense...and I really don't have a need for such things. I'm NOT an overclocker trying to wring every possible frame or mHz out of my components.
Thanks to all who chimed in with advice and recommendations. We'll see how this goes.

 

[lopri]

That is an awesome looking board. Congrats. Checked it out at Newegg and I think Z790 EDGE WIFI DDR4 is an identical board? Wearing a different coat.

 

[lopri]

I see one minor difference.

 

[BoomerD]

yeah, the MAG series are all pretty similar...a few minor differences here and there.

 

[Meghan54]

I went ahead and ordered the MSI MAG Z690 Tomahawk DDR4. Seems to have what I want/need in a motherboard at a reasonable price. I'd have LOVED to get one of the high end enthusiast boards, (ASUS ROG Maximus something, MSI GODLIKE, or Gigabyte Aorus Extreme...etc.) but my budget wouldn't stand such nonsense...and I really don't have a need for such things. I'm NOT an overclocker trying to wring every possible frame or mHz out of my components.
Thanks to all who chimed in with advice and recommendations. We'll see how this goes.

I’m like you…almost all Asus mb’s and mostly some ROG variety. But when I upgraded from my 4790k to an AMD 3700x, bought an MSI X570 ACE. Wife now has it as her board, running a 5700x and 2060.

I’m now running a 12700ks on an MSI Z690 Tomahawk WiFi DDR4 mb, about a twin of yours. Have had zero issues with it. Easy to set up although the BIOS is different. Have 32gb (16x2) 3600 DDR4, 3070 gpu on it. 1tb 980 Pro for hd.

The M.2 drive mounts are interesting. Kinda make sense but dang it…I’m really starting to hate on these micro-tiny screws. Thank goodness for reading glasses and bright lite.

Straightforward board. I flashed the BIOS upon purchase/install last year to get it up-to-date, but have no intentions to do any more. Otherwise, it does its job without making itself known. It did default to JEDEC spec on memory settings…I had to “turn on” the XMP settings to get their rated speed. Which it did without a peep.

Been a good solid board so far. Have zero doubts you’ll be disappointed.

 

[BoomerD]

I’m like you…almost all Asus mb’s and mostly some ROG variety. But when I upgraded from my 4790k to an AMD 3700x, bought an MSI X570 ACE. Wife now has it as her board, running a 5700x and 2060.

I’m now running a 12700ks on an MSI Z690 Tomahawk WiFi DDR4 mb, about a twin of yours. Have had zero issues with it. Easy to set up although the BIOS is different. Have 32gb (16x2) 3600 DDR4, 3070 gpu on it. 1tb 980 Pro for hd.

The M.2 drive mounts are interesting. Kinda make sense but dang it…I’m really starting to hate on these micro-tiny screws. Thank goodness for reading glasses and bright lite.

Straightforward board. I flashed the BIOS upon purchase/install last year to get it up-to-date, but have no intentions to do any more. Otherwise, it does its job without making itself known. It did default to JEDEC spec on memory settings…I had to “turn on” the XMP settings to get their rated speed. Which it did without a peep.

Been a good solid board so far. Have zero doubts you’ll be disappointed.

So far, the only complaints are: (1) the M.2-2 slot. It doesm't have one of the little clips to hold the M.2 drive...for a good reason. The screw that holds the heatsink in place is also the screw that holds the drive in place. Seems like a poor design.
(2) The placement of the wi-fi antenna connectors on the rear IO panel are in a bad place.Things plugged into the USB ports interfere with the antennas...I'm going to have to buy an antenna that connects with cables instead of directly on the connectors.

Otherwise, I flashed the BIOS to the newest version before installing CPU or RAM. Worked just fine...booted right into the BIOS when I finally got everything connected, and right into Windows from the NVMe drive I took out of the old build.
The EUFI BIOS is kind of weirdly laid out coming from the ASRock Z390 board I had, but it's manageable.