MSDNAA License Question

[Tsaar]

I have XP and Vista (along with other MSDNAA software) along with the respective licenses saved on my HDD from when I was an engineering student and had access to the network.

I also bought the $30 Windows 7 Professional Upgrade win741.com deal when my wife was a part-time graduate student.

Even when the MS licensing agreements seem absolutely retarded, I try to follow the EULA.

Basically, what are the rules pertaining to my MSDNAA software and operating systems (2 years since graduation) sitting in ISO format on my HDD? I have read these licenses persist after graduation. They obviously can't be used for business purposes, but what of normal personal usage?

Also, I have read that MSDNAA licenses are considered full licenses, so I assume that by owning a Windows 7 Upgrade license I can legally do a clean/custom install on top of one of my existing MSDNAA OS licenses?

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One other random question:

I understand today that OEM licenses are for system builders who are into resale, and not the DIY hobbyist end-user (even though I could get a friend to buy the parts, me "assist" him in assembling the computer, and have him "sell" the PC to me and be within the licensing agreement).

Prior to 2005 the only rule was a non-peripheral component had to be sold with the OEM OS disc to be a legal OEM license (so NewEgg would bundle a $0.99 power cable for protection if audited).

My father in 2004 purchased an OEM copy of Windows XP along with all the components needed to build his computer. Other than some reformats and reinstalls I have helped him with onto the same computer, this copy of XP remains with the same PC. I assume since it was purchased prior to the OEM rule changes that he is grandfathered in as having a legal copy of Windows?

I would think that MS lawyers would have trouble proving that a license change going into effect years after his purchase would negate his previously legally purchased license.

This is Microsoft's page outlining "hobbyist" rules (these rules started in 2008): http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/licensing_for_hobbyists.aspx

 

[RebateMonger]

This is Microsoft's page outlining "hobbyist" rules (these rules started in 2008): http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/licensing_for_hobbyists.aspx

I seldom, if ever, buy OEM software, so I haven't, until now, seen the latest OEM EULA for Windows.

Interesting....

First, as you probably know, MS says that the EULA OVERRULES any other documents. So any MS web page should generally be considered "advisory" and wouldn't necessarily hold up in court. The most recent English EULA for OEM software seems to be here:
http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf

It does appear that the EULA has some sort of restriction on home builders:

"2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this license. “System Builder” means an original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party."

EULAs aren't "laws". They are "agreements" and their exact meanings can only be determined by past and future civil actions.

It's strange. As you are aware, MS changed its guidelines about OEM distribution and use in 2005, linking OEM software to the MOTHERBOARD rather than to other components. MS made a big deal about the changes, sending copies to every OEM partner. They also stricly banned the sale of OPENED OEM software unless it accompanied a PC where it was installed. Finally, that 2005 policy definitely RECOGNIZED the "home builder" and specifically allowed "home builders" to use OEM software.

Now it seems (at least from your linked article) that home builders are no longer allowed to use OEM Windows in PCs that they've personally built.

I don't have any real answers about this. Like I said, I've never even seen the 2008 EULA until now. But I'm going to take a deeper look into it.

 

[Tsaar]

I don't have any real answers about this. Like I said, I've never even seen the 2008 EULA until now. But I'm going to take a deeper look into it.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't see how Microsoft could retroactively change the rules if you obtained it legally at the time, so I am assuming if you have an OEM license from pre-2005 that is still connected to the same hardware then you are OK.

I also assume reformats and reinstallations on the same hardware would also have no effect.

Edit: I also mentioned post-2008 on that page because between 2005 and 2008 there was verbage in their agreements which defined DIY computers as "system builders" (which you mentioned in your post above). Sometime in 2008 is when they changed their rules.

 

[RebateMonger]

I don't see how Microsoft could retroactively change the rules if you obtained it legally at the time, so I am assuming if you have an OEM license from pre-2005 that is still connected to the same hardware then you are OK.

I used to wonder about that. But I THINK what MS did at times was to include changes to their licensing wrapped into various Windows Updates (maybe Service Packs?). When you clicked on "I Agree to the Update", you were also agreeing to the new licensing terms. I'm not 100% sure about this, but that's my recollection from the Windows XP days.

Here's another page on the "no-home-builders" policy that MS has adoped with OEM Windows 7:
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/productlicensing/pages/windows_7_licensing.aspx

"End User Distribution

System builder software packs should not be distributed to end users. Software is preinstalled onto PCs, and the individual software license—located in the pack—must be given to the customer. Individual software licenses may include a COA, media, and a manual.

System Builder Software: Not for Legalization

The Get Genuine Kit for Windows—not OEM System Builder software—is the proper channel legalization solution for existing PCs."

BTW, the "OPK-only" installation clause would be tough to prove on a used system because the system builder is supposed to give the consumer the OEM Install disk. If the consumer ever used the OEM disk to re-install Windows, any evidence of whether or not the original install was done using the OPK kit would be gone.

 

[RebateMonger]

Regarding MSDNAA, here's the "Student Use Agreement":

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/academic/bb250622.aspx

It includes:

"You may use the software for non-commercial purposes including instructional use, research and/or design, and development and testing of projects for class assignments, tests, or personal projects. You may not use MSDNAA software for any for-profit software development.

When you are no longer taking credit courses in the member school, you may no longer obtain MSDNAA software. However, you may continue to use previously installed products on your computer, provided you continue to follow MSDNAA program guidelines."

Regarding upgrades of MSDNAA software, I'm GUESSING that you can upgrade it, but that the use restrictions of your original license would still apply. But I've never seen that issue discussed before and I'm just guessing.

 

[tcsenter]

Here's another page on the "no-home-builders" policy that MS has adoped with OEM Windows 7:
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/productlicensing/pages/windows_7_licensing.aspx

"End User Distribution

System builder software packs should not be distributed to end users. Software is preinstalled onto PCs, and the individual software license—located in the pack—must be given to the customer. Individual software licenses may include a COA, media, and a manual.

The key word is "should" not (its discouraged but not prohibited), and it refers to unbroken/unopened 3-count and 30-count System Builder packs, not to individual/single packs. Nothing has changed, Microsoft still considers a home user who builds their own computer or install the OS to be a System Builder for the purposes of being able to acquire and use the individual/single packs.

 

[RebateMonger]

The key word is "should" not (its discouraged but not prohibited), and it refers to unbroken/unopened 3-count and 30-count System Builder packs, not to individual/single packs.

The single-unit packages are alao labelled "System Builder". The difference with the multi-packs is that they include the OPK installation software. Since the single pack doesn't include the OPK disk and the OPK software isn't supposed to be distributed to End Users, that makes it "impossible" for a home builder to install it according to the OEM license.

While Newegg is certainly NOT the last word in licensing, their description of the single-packs now includes:

"Disclaimer: Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user support for the Windows."

The single-pack is included along with the mullt-packs in Micrsoft's OEM System Builder product listings. A multi-pack consists of three or more of the single-packs along with an OPK kit, all sealed in a soft wrapper with licensing information on the outside.

 

[Tsaar]

Regarding MSDNAA, here's the "Student Use Agreement":

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/acadeYou must be registered in at least one for-credit course within the member school to be eligible to load program software on your personal computer.mic/bb250622.aspx

It includes:

"You may use the software for non-commercial purposes including instructional use, research and/or design, and development and testing of projects for class assignments, tests, or personal projects. You may not use MSDNAA software for any for-profit software development.

When you are no longer taking credit courses in the member school, you may no longer obtain MSDNAA software. However, you may continue to use previously installed products on your computer, provided you continue to follow MSDNAA program guidelines."

Regarding upgrades of MSDNAA software, I'm GUESSING that you can upgrade it, but that the use restrictions of your original license would still apply. But I've never seen that issue discussed before and I'm just guessing.

According to that link it seems perfectly acceptable to continue using the software forever for personal usage, but here is a snag:

"You must be registered in at least one for-credit course within the member school to be eligible to load program software on your personal computer."

"However, you may continue to use previously installed products on your computer, provided you continue to follow MSDNAA program guidelines."

Is that really telling me that I can never reinstall the software, even though the license is still valid after graduation?

Obviously most of the software and operating systems are sitting in ISO format on my HDD.

"Load program software" could be interpreted as download from the MSDNAA website, which I obviously do not have access to since I graduated two years ago. The second line seems the most damning, though it doesn't explicitly say you cannot reinstall it though. Not sure which lawyers would win this one. They both have an argument.

 

[RebateMonger]

"Load program software" could be interpreted as download from the MSDNAA website, which I obviously do not have access to since I graduated two years ago. The second line seems the most damning, though it doesn't explicitly say you cannot reinstall it though. Not sure which lawyers would win this one. They both have an argument.

I'm pretty sure you can't re-install it. At least not without a phone call to MS or your former MSDNAA administrator. You might call the administrator of your University's MSDNAA program. I imagine they'll talk to you even if you no longer a student.

"Q: Is the software permanently unlocked by the license (or "key")?
A: No - the key allows you to install the software once. After that, if you need to re-install the software, you will need to use the "Request Re-Install" option from the Support section of the site. This is how their system helps to reduce software piracy."

http://support.cc.gatech.edu/resources/downloads/msdnaa-frequently-asked-questions

 

[postmortemIA]

I'm pretty sure you can't re-install it. At least not without a phone call to MS or your former MSDNAA administrator. You might call the administrator of your University's MSDNAA program. I imagine they'll talk to you even if you no longer a student.

"Q: Is the software permanently unlocked by the license (or "key")?
A: No - the key allows you to install the software once. After that, if you need to re-install the software, you will need to use the "Request Re-Install" option from the Support section of the site. This is how their system helps to reduce software piracy."

http://support.cc.gatech.edu/resources/downloads/msdnaa-frequently-asked-questions

I have reinstalled my MSDNAA Windows XP and Vista licenses many times, on many different computers. Generally, it would activate without issue, just like you would with retail version of XP or Vista. At times when it wouldn't activate (too many activations in a short time, switching a PC), I would call Microsoft and get it to activate without problem.

So treat MSDNAA licenses as retail full versions. That is how windows activation treats them. It is not what their very confusing licensing agreement says explicitly, but it comes down to it.

 

[Tsaar]

I have reinstalled my MSDNAA Windows XP and Vista licenses many times, on many different computers. Generally, it would activate without issue, just like you would with retail version of XP or Vista. At times when it wouldn't activate (too many activations in a short time, switching a PC), I would call Microsoft and get it to activate without problem.

So treat MSDNAA licenses as retail full versions. That is how windows activation treats them. It is not what their very confusing licensing agreement says explicitly, but it comes down to it.

I have also reinstalled them many times (and activated obviously) without a problem.

After reading the licensing agreement though I started to feel guilty. So I am trying to find out if I have been breaking EULA on a fairly regular basis by activating these copies since graduation.

 

[Tsaar]

Update. I sent an email to my msdnaa program admin and asked this:

"I saved all of my product ISOs and product keys from when I was a student.

Is reinstallation fine of the OS and software fine as long as it follows the academic guidelines (ie no commercial software development)?"

The reply:

"Correct"

So if the PA tells me I am ok, am I covered if the MS legal team ever came after me haha?