msconfig - No more IDE connections?!?!?

imported_KuJaX

Platinum Member
May 29, 2004
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Hey Everyone,

I have just got a BFG 6800ultra 256mb AGP video card, so I downloaded driver cleaner, uninstalled the ATI drivers, restarted in safemode (went into msconfig and clicked bootsafe). From safemode I went ahead and ran driver cleaner successfully. I then turned off the computer, took out my ATI cards, and installed the BFG 6800 ultra. Well, I started up windows, popped in the BFG drivers CD, and noticed that I didn't have any CDRW/DVDRW drives! Nothing! I restarted the computer and checked the bios, and sure enough, NOTHING in the IDE slots.

So I went ahead and switched out the IDE cable that I was using, and still nothing in my BIOS.

So my question, can MSCONFIG like delete my IDE drives? I tried looking in system manager and they were not there. any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
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If you're not seeing them in BIOS then nothing you do in Windows will affect them. Windows can manage interrupts and whatnot via ACPI once it boots, but when you are in your BIOS setup screen Windows has no effect.

Also, all you did with MSConfig was add the /Safeboot switch to your boot.ini. You can verify that the switch is now gone if you would like. Doesn't really change things though.
 

imported_KuJaX

Platinum Member
May 29, 2004
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Smilin - Thats precisely what I thought! Isn't it strange that after I install the card that the IDE drives arent detected in BIOS? I've switched IDE cables and IDE ports on the motherboard). Still nothing :Q
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
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Forgive me, but be sure do a D'oh! check..

Did you disconnect any power cables to the drives when installing your card?
Your new card uses a molex power connector - try moving things around until you can get it on it's own line to the power supply.
Are your hard drives IDE/SATA etc? Are they on the same or different controller?
If IDE, what happens if you move your boot drive to one of the 'dead' controllers?
Verify the IDE controller isn't disabled in bios.
Tried resetting your BIOS?
What happens when you pop your old video card in? (just cancel if it attempts to install drivers)

 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
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Better try and temporarily disconnect the PATA/SATA that you have for XP and make sure that you do not have another active PATA/SATA in the system.

Leave your CD/DVDs on the IDE line(s) aand boot to BIOS...see if they show up now.

If so, XP has (because it can) trumped over the BIOS settings.

If so, post here as first things first.
 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: Smilin
This is not an operating system issue.
While I would tend to agree, it may be a little more basic than that.

Windoze is a shell that sits on top of DOS (regardless of what they tell you).
Win can and does affect the Disk Operating System.
That's why I stated what I did. I've seen it happen. :D:D:D
However, I've also seen a power line or molex connector go out and accomplish the same thing - to name but two that quickly come to mind.

 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: RideFree
Windoze is a shell that sits on top of DOS (regardless of what they tell you).
Win can and does affect the Disk Operating System.

ROFL oh man. I feel so sorry for you otherwise you'd be flamed. I bet you have an 80s hair do.

When was the last decade that you actually read something about how an operating system works?

Windows (Windoze no less!) is a shell that sits on top of DOS!!! ROFLMFAO Oh man wait till the other guys see this.
 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
Originally posted by: RideFree
Originally posted by: Smilin
This is not an operating system issue.
While I would tend to agree, it may be a little more basic than that.

Windoze is a shell that sits on top of DOS (regardless of what they tell you).
Win can and does affect the Disk Operating System.
That's why I stated what I did. I've seen it happen. :D:D:D
However, I've also seen a power line or molex connector go out and accomplish the same thing - to name but two that quickly come to mind.

You've just completely invalidated your advice.

Windows hasn't included any variation of DOS since the 9x operating systems. NT-based OSes (NT, 2000, XP) do not include nor do they "sit on top of" DOS.

Regardless of that error, there is nothing that an operating system can do to a hard drive that would prevent the BIOS from detecting it. The BIOS is the lowest level of hardware detection and communication, and is unaware of any operating system when it scans the IDE bus. If the scan of the IDE bus fails, it is certainly a hardware issue and NOT an operating system issue.
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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Agreed - not an OS issue if the BIOS isn't seeing the drives.

*If* you remove the new card, put in the old one and then do see the drives, then it's likely a conflict in IRQ/DMA resources.. possibly a memory address as well.
 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,433
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You guys are going to look funny with egg on the egos...
When XP writes to the Master Boot Record (MBR) of a PC's hard drive it is the very first physical sector on the disk (0,0,1 in head, cylinder, sector terms). There are some special things about the MBR. It contains (at a minimum) some executable code to start the bootstrap of the operating system. This can affect partition tables, logical and virtual drives as well as the status of the whole subsystem, itself.
The bootstrap of the OS that is being considered in this equation is none other than DOS, itself.
It may be possible to run "fdisk /status" to get an idea of what may have gone wrong.
I would advise against running the undocumented "fdisk /mbr" without a master boot record backup.
I do not consider it to be a possibility that some card is interfering with either IRQ 14 or 15.
Other possibilities for the problem have never been excluded by me and I remain open to the real solution, one of which I have put forth here.
 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
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Let's have KuJaX report his success or failure to get this back on track.
I'm willing to bet that if he has a spare H/D and places it in the system along with the CD/DVD drive(s) - after removing all other hard drives, everything will show up in the BIOS. :D:D:D
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
10,436
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I can only assume you're not talking to me because *if* you're in the BIOS utility of the motherboard and you can't see IDE devices connected to the channel, it has nothing whatsoever to do with what operating system happens to be installed on a hard disk, whether that OS writes to the MBR or not. ;)

 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,433
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D0H!
All he has to do is disconnect all hard drives in the system and if the CD/DVD shows up the ? is answered...I should have stated that before all this.
 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,433
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Originally posted by: networkman
I can only assume you're not talking to me because *if* you're in the BIOS utility of the motherboard and you can't see IDE devices connected to the channel, it has nothing whatsoever to do with what operating system happens to be installed on a hard disk, whether that OS writes to the MBR or not. ;)
We're not talking about what O/S is installed on the disk, we are talking about the potential modifications to the MBR that may have been accidently created. The actual O/S may have been erased but it has left the MBR.

One of the reasons I always use fdisk to partition for Windoz (assuming it is not going to be used for another O/S i.e.Linux, etc.).

 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,433
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Think of this...
If you were to create one *hidden* drive, would the BIOS *see* it to display?

In order to report to the BIOS display screen, the BIOS firmware touches the 1st active drive in the system and reads the MBR which *can* controll all other drives nearly any way that can be imagined.
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
10,436
1
0
Which still has no effect whatsoever on whether a disk is detected in the BIOS utility of the motherboard. It doesn't matter whether the MBR thinks it has Linux, OS/2 Warp, XP, 2K, DOS, Solaris, Mac, etc! The information about the drive(assuming IDE) is embedded in the electronics of the device.
 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,433
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0
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." While I can agree with this, I can not agree, "186,282 miles per second - it's not just a good idea, it's the Law."

The edge of the known universe is coming into view...the reason it's the edge? Everything beyond is moving at greater than the speed of light. How do we know if it is true? It shows up in the darkl
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
10,436
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Whether you agree with my sig or not doesn't matter one bit to me, but this thread is not the place for it. Stay on topic.

 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
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0
Originally posted by: RideFree
You guys are going to look funny with egg on the egos...
When XP writes to the Master Boot Record (MBR) of a PC's hard drive it is the very first physical sector on the disk (0,0,1 in head, cylinder, sector terms). There are some special things about the MBR. It contains (at a minimum) some executable code to start the bootstrap of the operating system. This can affect partition tables, logical and virtual drives as well as the status of the whole subsystem, itself.
The bootstrap of the OS that is being considered in this equation is none other than DOS, itself.
It may be possible to run "fdisk /status" to get an idea of what may have gone wrong.
I would advise against running the undocumented "fdisk /mbr" without a master boot record backup.
I do not consider it to be a possibility that some card is interfering with either IRQ 14 or 15.
Other possibilities for the problem have never been excluded by me and I remain open to the real solution, one of which I have put forth here.

Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

First, let's get that little IRQ thing out of the way. This is an ACPI system. It does not use old ISA, EISA, VESA style interrupts where an interrupt represented a physical line going to the processor. If we still did things that way we would be limited to 16 devices in the system. No, we're using interrupts now that communicate via packets. It is perfectly normal for two devices to share the same interrupt.

Second, let's get a little fdisk issue cleared up. WTF is Fdisk /status? That's a DOS switch and doesn't exist in XP (we use the LDM in 2005 m'kay?). Further more, Fdisk /MBR is a perfectly safe command to run unless one condition is present: The end of sector marker for sector zero (55 AAh) is missing. Fdisk /MBR simply rewrites the MBR boot code and then zeros everything else in the sector until the start of the partition table. It calulates where the partition table starts by counting backwards from the 55AA. No marker? Zero's your partition table out. Why on earth would you think Fdisk /MBR is undocumented? It's well documented. SELF documented even! Run Fdisk /? geez.

Finally, let's get this whole MBR thing cleared up. The boot code in the MBR is OS independent. It's the same boot code whether you're running DOS, or Server 2003 Enterprise. It is not an operating system and performs no operating system functions. It is enough code to read the partition table, find the active partition (80h marker) then locate and run the boot sector at the beginning of that partition. The MBR boot code contains no dynamic information whatsoever and has absolutely nothing to do with this problem. The MBR code runs in realmode. Windows runs in protected paging mode. (Shell on top of DOS?? - what a riot!!). The moment the MBR passes control over to the boot sector you have become OS specific. The boot sector dropped in place by formatting with an NT based OS like Windows XP (NT 5.1) looks specifically for NTLDR. The boot sector dropped in place by DOS looks for IO.SYS or MSDOS.SYS (for the life of me I can't stretch back two decades to remember which).

Now explain to me how Windows' ACPI.sys which loads way after ntoskrnl.exe, which loads after ntldr, which loads after the boot sector, which loads after the MBR, which loads after BIOS can make any changes to what BIOS sees when you go into your BIOS setup screen and aren't even accessing the disk?

To save yourself future egg, please know that I edit disks by hand with a hex editor. I can completely rebuild a lost sector zero and get an OS booting again. Don't try pulling any wool over my eyes. I'll get impatient and flame you.

Let's leave the remainder of this thread clear of any bulls*** so we can help KuJax with his problem. Please ban yourself. Twice.
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: RideFree
Think of this...
If you were to create one *hidden* drive, would the BIOS *see* it to display?

In order to report to the BIOS display screen, the BIOS firmware touches the 1st active drive in the system and reads the MBR which *can* controll all other drives nearly any way that can be imagined.

No it doesn't.

BIOS does not need to touch ANY sector of the drive to gather information about it. Quit trippin' old man. Go upgrade your 286 and leave us be.
 

RideFree

Diamond Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,433
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Don't everybody rush out and google on "windows shell"!

Even though I had never done it...even I was surprized!
Also, there are lots of DOS remnants in the good ol' Windows "system" although it has been updated considerably to accomodate all of the M$/Intel tricks in order to emulate both real & protected mode processing...

Meanwhile, I'll just go back to being the Homer Simpson of the O/S world.
 

imported_KuJaX

Platinum Member
May 29, 2004
2,428
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UPDATE

Well everyone, in the BIOS I loaded the "optimized" BIOS. I turned off my system for a good 45 seconds, restarted it and the BIOS was essentially reset. POP, my IDE connections were there. I tried many things, but figured I would try the EASIEST last. :)

So I got my CDRW/DVDRW drives back! :)

However, a stupid problem still remains. :(

I have a 1210SA Adaptec RAID controller that I use for my main operating system in RAID 0 with two raptors. I recently added a SATA harddrive to the system for backup purposes and plugged directly into "sata1" on my Abit AS8 motherboard. I started the system and it said "cannot boot ......." so I laughed and went into the BIOS and changed the boot priority back to PCI SLOT and not the recent SATA harddrive I put in. Well, I got past "cannot boot....." and where normally Windows XP Professional logo comes up, nothing does. Totally black. I let it sit for a good 10 minutes and didn't boot. Push the power button once and it instantly turns off (basically meaning no response).

I have an adaptec 1210sa RAID controller with RAID 0 setup as main OS. I also have a SCSI controller with SCSI harddrive. This combo has worked flawlessly, but I need more storage. When I added a SATA or even an IDE harddrive, it wouldn't boot properly.

Any help? I swear i've looked everywhere in the BIOS and the boot priority, along with "boot PCI device" is set first, just as it is when I don't have the additional sata/ide harddrive plugged in.