MS pays $10K for win 10 upgrade issues?

[Elixer]

http://arstechnica.com/information-...ted-windows-10-upgrade-costs-microsoft-10000/

Teri Goldstein's computer, used to run her travel agency business, was apparently upgraded to Windows 10 shortly after Microsoft made the free upgrade available to Windows 7 and 8.1 users last year. Goldstein said this update was so problematic that it left her computer crashing and unusable for days at a time. After Microsoft's tech support was unable to assist, Goldstein sued the software company, asking the court to award her compensation for lost wages and the cost of a new computer.

Goldstein won and was awarded a $10,000 judgement. Microsoft appealed this decision but then dropped this appeal. According to a Microsoft spokesperson, the company still denies any wrongdoing but dropped the appeal to avoid the expense of further litigation.

While I do think MS is wrong for pushing win 10 to people that don't want it, it is also wrong to sue for "the cost of a new computer" since win 10 doesn't magically break the old machine. Just reinstall the old OS again.
Sheesh.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Just reinstall the old OS again.
Sheesh.

And... ? You're not thinking of the end-user. MOST end-users wouldn't have a clue how to re-install an OS, not to mention necessary drivers.

That's if they even have the media and key necessary to do that.

At the very least, they would have to hire a computer tech.

 

[Elixer]

No, I am saying that MS's tech support should have told them to reinstall the old OS, or just rollback the upgrade.

 

[Mike64]

As little a threat as it is in the greater scheme of things, I'm actually surprised they dropped the appeal, even though of course it would've cost most/more than the judgment to press it. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall of the meeting/conference call that resulted in the final decision to drop it. Whatever their rationale was, it obviously wasn't the standard "boilerplate" we-did-it-to-avoid-further-litigation-expenses nonsense everyone more or less automatically spouts whenever they pay out instead of litigating to the bitter end...

 

[lightningbaron]

Wait,if she went to Windows 10 on her on free will and didn't do a backup, then it's the end user problem. You have a PC for business use and no backup before jumping ship? Technical support is not god; they can't wave a magic wand and make your issues disappear.

 

[Dahak]

Wait,if she went to Windows 10 on her on free wil.....

But it does not say that she did, it could be one of the cases where it automatically did the upgrade. And if it was soon after the release, I could see it be problematic as well

 

[sm625]

I dont understand how does a Win 10 upgrade get "forced" onto someone? Dont you have to click on multiple things in order to start the upgrade?

 

[TeknoBug]

Chances are she had proprietary software that wasn't compatible with Win 10, we had some PC's at work that some bozo decided to upgrade to WIn 10 and it was having issues left and right and was unfixable so the IT guy had to revert them back to Win 7 enterprise.

 

[Ketchup]

Good for her. I wish more people would have tried this, maybe MS would have stopped their forcing of Windows 10. Didn't happen to me, but a lot of people on the forums said that this is exactly what happened to them, and I remember at least one thread about a company that got the upgrade, even though their shouldn't have.

People just want to use their computer to do their job. When they are ready for Windows 10, they will go to the store and buy it, or go to an IT consultant/friend/company to make sure it is right for them.

People talk about Windows ME, Vista, and 8 being such bad OS's, but I am sure that the Windows that was pushed down people's throats will also have it's own special place in history.

 

[Nashemon]

I wonder what OS her new computer has on it...hmmm. If it's Win10, how ironic. If it's not, she's probably going to encounter the same issue within a week or two, unless she's proactive about it.

I dont understand how does a Win 10 upgrade get "forced" onto someone? Dont you have to click on multiple things in order to start the upgrade?

Not if you have "Automatic Updates (Recommended)" turned on. It auto-downloads then auto-schedules itself. It's up to the user to notice that closing the window does not cancel the scheduled update. When that day comes, one reboot is all it takes. The only prompt they get is "Windows is configuring; Do not power off your computer." And by then, it's too late to do anything about.

 

[sm625]

I have "Automatic Updates (Recommended)" turned on on several machines. The Get WinX appears on the tray, but it doesnt install.

 

[Dahak]

I have "Automatic Updates (Recommended)" turned on on several machines. The Get WinX appears on the tray, but it doesnt install.

There was a bug that caused this, it supposed to have been fixed now, but back when it was first out for the first few months it happened. there was no real reason for it, one day you would have 10 or if you had to reboot for any reason it would start the install

 

[Nashemon]

"A bug." Yeah. Fool me once...something, something.

 

[Mike64]

Wait,if she went to Windows 10 on her on free will and didn't do a backup

ArsTechnica's and the the Seattle newspaper's article it cites are both ridiculously thin on detail. I don't recall offhand what other coverage I read (I scanned a bunch of sites when the above articles left so many open questions) but as I understand her actual claim, the problem wasn't that "Windows 10" borked her system, but that repeatedly trying to avoid/abort the upgrade is what eventually screwed something up so badly. And then worse still, and in the details of which I suspect lies MS's reason for not pursuing their appeal, MS phone support and/or the "Microsoft store" she eventually went to for help (I didn't even know such things existed) after phone support told her - apparently literally - "don't call us again" either couldn't fix it either or possibly screwed things up even worse.

Frankly, the whole thing seems pretty sketchy to me. This apparently all this went on for months, so I assume her system must have been at least semi-functional for some part of that time, and if she's technologically clueless enough not to know to re-install the original OS, why she didn't hire even some "geek" with a classified "computer repair" ad to deal with it after a couple of weeks, presumably before things got so screwed up that nothing could be done (supposedly) is utterly beyond me... (It's her business after all. If it's a big enough deal to take the MS store to small claims court, it wasn't a big enough deal to hire a "consultant" to fix it quickly instead of screwing around with it herself?) And then at first glance, I really can't imagine what could have gone so wrong that, at least early on in the debacle, it wasn't fixable by simply backing up her data and doing a fresh install of Windows 7. But with nothing more than the sort of "minor media" attention a story like this will ever get, we're unlikely ever to know exactly what really happened. (And since it was in small claims court, whatever papers were filed are unlikely to be very detailed, much less well/clearly written even if any journalist bothers to find and read them.) There's got to be more to it than the superficial versions I've seen on various tech sites/newspaper articles, or I truly cannot imagine Microsoft being willing to let the judgment stand even if it is "merely" a small claims case...

 

[IGBT]

buggered up my laptop twice even though the win10 upgrade advisor said it was compatible.

 

[TheGardener]

We are all limited by the media's reporting of this claim against Microsoft. If the text of the small claims trial were available, I'd probably only skim it for why the judge found in favor of the plaintiff.

So I don't know if the trial claim was won under the auspices of the Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 10 licensing agreement. If under the Windows 10 agreement, was she was not required to hire a consultant, but Microsoft was contractually obligated to help her.

Here is an except from the Windows 10 license agreement.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

[FONT=&quot]c. Small claims court option.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Instead of mailing a Notice of Dispute, and if you meet the court’s requirements, you may sue us in small claims court in your county of residence (or if a business your principal place of business) or our principal place of business–King County, Washington USA if your dispute is with Microsoft. We hope you’ll mail a Notice of Dispute and give us 60 days to try to work it out, but you don’t have to before going to small claims court.[/FONT]

So arbitration apparently isn't always required under the new license agreement, and the local court accepted the claimant's case.

I have to wonder if Microsoft did financial analyses on what their legal costs would be if they did or did not "force" licensees to upgrade from versions 7, 8 and 10. Maybe those costs were deemed acceptable in the overall upgrade strategy, and did not impose a barrier to "forcing" licensees to upgrade. Of course I am only speculating.

 

[C1]

All of this is not surprising.

If you listen to the call-ins on computer tech talk shows (eg, DATEL systems - all about computers, Leo LaPorte, etc.) then one should better understand some of the issues.

There are people who simply lose all their in-work documents as a result of the WX over write.

Leo LaPorte now even tongue lashes MS stating that what it is doing is certainly unethical and seems even to border on criminal behavior.

 

[Mike64]

We are all limited by the media's reporting of this claim against Microsoft. If the text of the small claims trial were available, I'd probably only skim it for why the judge found in favor of the plaintiff.

So I don't know if the trial claim was won under the auspices of the Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 10 licensing agreement. If under the Windows 10 agreement, was she was not required to hire a consultant, but Microsoft was contractually obligated to help her.

Here is an except from the Windows 10 license agreement.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

So arbitration apparently isn't always required under the new license agreement, and the local court accepted the claimant's case.

I have to wonder if Microsoft did financial analyses on what their legal costs would be if they did or did not "force" licensees to upgrade from versions 7, 8 and 10. Maybe those costs were deemed acceptable in the overall upgrade strategy, and did not impose a barrier to "forcing" licensees to upgrade. Of course I am only speculating.

I wasn't suggesting she was "required" to hire someone, I implied that she was a fool not to, after an initial call or two to MS phone support didn't clear things up right away. (Or that alternatively, if she is in fact "tech savvy" enough to have tried to handle it herself, one has to wonder why she didn't just back up her data when she could, wipe the drive, and reinstall her original OS...)

ETA: And frankly, since she was using the machine in question for business, she would get no sympathy from me if she didn't at the very least have her original key somewhere safe, and preferably a copy of the installation disc, even if she was foolish enough not to be making even semi-regular backups. Again, this is her business, not her web-surfing, emailing and iTunes-running home PC we're talking about. What would she have done if her hard drive crashed? Just said "aw, shucks, there went $10 grand down the crapper. Better luck next time..."?)

 

[SparkyJJO]

All of this is not surprising.

If you listen to the call-ins on computer tech talk shows (eg, DATEL systems - all about computers, Leo LaPorte, etc.) then one should better understand some of the issues.

There are people who simply lose all their in-work documents as a result of the WX over write.

Leo LaPorte now even tongue lashes MS stating that what it is doing is certainly unethical and seems even to border on criminal behavior.

A Windows 10 upgrade will NOT destroy documents.

The only way for it to do that is not via GWX but to download the media creation tool, create a disc or USB drive, run setup from that drive, and then change the setting to wipe everything.

You have to be VERY deliberate to have it delete any documents or data like that.

Well, one exception might be if you store that stuff in the C: \Windows folder, but that would be your own dumb fault for doing that!

And please... "Criminal" behavior?

I still find it funny with all these issues of Windows supposedly automatically installing itself that none of the dozens of the PCs I work on monthly ever have tried that even once. Many of them that have the GWX applet just are sitting there quietly with the icon, waiting.

Shoot, on my PC I had to go out of my way to initiate the upgrade as it wouldn't do anything by itself.

 

[mv2devnull]

I still find it funny with all these issues of Windows supposedly automatically installing itself that none of the dozens of the PCs I work on monthly ever have tried that even once.

Mostl are user errors, hearsay, urban legends, but given enough cases some could be genuine.

MS claims "over 300 mil WinX in active use*". Add to that installs that were reverted (unless MS counts them "active" too). That is some more than dozens. Lets say that one PC in ten million is such a fringe case that it can evoke a bug. There is then fair chance that at least one of all the WinX installs that have occurred, was a software bug.

If the bug is possible but highly unlikely, then MS should not end up paying 10k many times over.
If the bug is simply not possible, then MS did pay for something else.


*) Is this what telemetry is for?

 

[SparkyJJO]

I know, small sample compared to the thousands of systems out there, but still strikes me a bit odd. I'd have thought I'd have seen it at least once if it was so widespread.

 

[sn8ke]

Well I do know several people that told me they woke up one morning with Win 10. A couple of them asked me for help because it was broken (compatibility). I have no personal experience with it aside from that, but it apparently does happen.

10k is probably the price of a business dinner for one floor of execs anyway. Too bad it wasn't a class action suit... yet?.
Though blindly agreeing to the license agreement will probably bite them all in the bum (as usual), the woman winning the case might help by setting a precedent of sorts.

 

[Mem]

buggered up my laptop twice even though the win10 upgrade advisor said it was compatible.

You should know by now never trust any software advisor program or even any upgrade period, OS upgrades have been causing havoc for many decades, nothing new there on any Windows OS you can name.

End of the day, all you can do is make sure you have all your important stuff backed up, clean install is normally best way to go.

Side note: Also some companies are lazy with regards to support for drivers and software for latest Operating Systems, so they should get some of the blame, I ditched companies with crap support, probably why I have had a lot of enjoyable upgrades since pre Win98 days.

 

[Fallen Kell]

No, I am saying that MS's tech support should have told them to reinstall the old OS, or just rollback the upgrade.

It doesn't matter if they said to roll it back or not. At that point, the business had already suffered damages from the system upgrading and being unusable. Loss of availability is no different than if MS had performed a denial of service attack against the company.

 

[sweenish]

Oh, so an idiot actively screwing up their own machine is the same as being targeted by a corporation.

Checks out.