MS no longer locking devs to 720p

[Queasy]

Black Rock Dev - David Jefferies - Good read as it goes into some of the details about the trade-offs that devs make on getting games to look the best they can.

Essentially this boils down to the majority of popular LCD TVs use 1366x768 for their screen resolution while MS requires devs to lock in at 720p. This causes some issues with scaling the outputted image. Now, according to Jefferies, MS has relieved devs of locking in at 720p allowing them "to make the trade-off between resolution and image quality as we see fit."[/quote]

 

[destrekor]

that native resolution also includes overscan/unseen pixels, correct?

 

[Fox5]

Err, doesn't component only do 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i/p? I guess HDMI and VGA could handle that res, if the TV doesn't want to scale it anyway.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

I would prefer it if they prioritized resolution over everything else. 1080p then scale down using the 360 hardware scaler or actually make the game render at the resolution the system is set to output up to a limit of 1080p. Even the nicest textures, lighting, and models will look like ass with low resolution or a combination of low resolution and pixel interpolation on LCDs. The last game I played on 360 was Star Ocean 4 on a 24" 1080p LCD and it looked awful. Low resolution, interpolation between the rendered resolution and the scaled resolution, no anti-aliasing, bleh. Crappy filtering too, which is strange cosnidering I have never found 16x AF to be any more demanding that 4x AF or something. Probably some small, insignificant performance loss.

Though I guess on a TV this isn't as big a deal because of the distance the player is from the TV. Up close with a monitor you can see everything, all the crappyness. I was happy when I found that Geometry Wars 2 was being rendered at 1080p, looked like a PC game.

 

[erwos]

To be fair, the 360 didn't even support 1080p originally, and it looks as if Microsoft was somewhat correct in assuming that 720p would be the standard resolution. *shrugs*

 

[sourceninja]

I own 3 1080p TV's. Gimmie 1080p!

 

[Pheran]

For all those wanting 1080p - there is no console this generation that can natively support that in complex games (Geometry Wars graphics might be simple enough to do it), it's all scaled. You will have to wait for the next generation for real 1080p.

EDIT: P-p-penguin C-c-combo!

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: Pheran
For all those wanting 1080p - there is no console this generation that can natively support that in complex games (Geometry Wars graphics might be simple enough to do it), it's all scaled. You will have to wait for the next generation for real 1080p.

EDIT: P-p-penguin C-c-combo!

MGS4?

 

[Bryf50]

Originally posted by: gersson

Originally posted by: Pheran
For all those wanting 1080p - there is no console this generation that can natively support that in complex games (Geometry Wars graphics might be simple enough to do it), it's all scaled. You will have to wait for the next generation for real 1080p.

EDIT: P-p-penguin C-c-combo!

MGS4?

Nope. Actually rendered at below 720p. The web says 1024x768.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Meh, my TV has a scaler in it. It's a 1080i panel, but it will take 1080p images and downscale. I'd trust that to scale any image before I'll trust a console.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Pheran
For all those wanting 1080p - there is no console this generation that can natively support that in complex games (Geometry Wars graphics might be simple enough to do it), it's all scaled. You will have to wait for the next generation for real 1080p.

EDIT: P-p-penguin C-c-combo!

well to be fair, most games aren't going to be 1080p, but a lot of PSN games do have 1080p native capability, not just upscaled.

And notably, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue is native 1080p, and it's assumed that GT5 will be 1080p as well. That game isn't some pushover for graphics either, but granted... it's also no MGS4 or Uncharted. Does look great though.

I could swear there was another 1080p game on the PS3. Hmmmm....

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: destrekor
well to be fair, most games aren't going to be 1080p, but a lot of PSN games do have 1080p native capability, not just upscaled.

I was under the impression that most of those games were being upscaled in software anyhow.

 

[Pheran]

Originally posted by: destrekor
And notably, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue is native 1080p, and it's assumed that GT5 will be 1080p as well. That game isn't some pushover for graphics either, but granted... it's also no MGS4 or Uncharted. Does look great though.

Interesting. I admit I am skeptical, but if they can pull it off, more power to them.

 

[fatpat268]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: destrekor
well to be fair, most games aren't going to be 1080p, but a lot of PSN games do have 1080p native capability, not just upscaled.

I was under the impression that most of those games were being upscaled in software anyhow.

Yea, I never realized when I played my 360 on my hdtv on my couch, but now, I got my 360 hooked up to my PC monitor, and it's much more evident that some games aren't really running 720p.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: fatpat268

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: destrekor
well to be fair, most games aren't going to be 1080p, but a lot of PSN games do have 1080p native capability, not just upscaled.

I was under the impression that most of those games were being upscaled in software anyhow.

Yea, I never realized when I played my 360 on my hdtv on my couch, but now, I got my 360 hooked up to my PC monitor, and it's much more evident that some games aren't really running 720p.

There are a couple of games that MS allowed to render at less than 720p. Halo 3 and PGR 3 are the two that immediately come to mind.

 

[EvilComputer92]

It doesn't even matter because some devs don't even use 720p, especially the ones that put out the major releases. Modern Warfare 2 is going to use 600p and Halo 3 uses 640p. What a joke.

 

[fatpat268]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
It doesn't even matter because some devs don't even use 720p, especially the ones that put out the major releases. Modern Warfare 2 is going to use 600p and Halo 3 uses 640p. What a joke.

Yea, that's kinda why I try to get a PC version of a game if there is one.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: PieIsAwesome
I would prefer it if they prioritized resolution over everything else. 1080p then scale down using the 360 hardware scaler or actually make the game render at the resolution the system is set to output up to a limit of 1080p. Even the nicest textures, lighting, and models will look like ass with low resolution or a combination of low resolution and pixel interpolation on LCDs. The last game I played on 360 was Star Ocean 4 on a 24" 1080p LCD and it looked awful. Low resolution, interpolation between the rendered resolution and the scaled resolution, no anti-aliasing, bleh. Crappy filtering too, which is strange cosnidering I have never found 16x AF to be any more demanding that 4x AF or something. Probably some small, insignificant performance loss.

Though I guess on a TV this isn't as big a deal because of the distance the player is from the TV. Up close with a monitor you can see everything, all the crappyness. I was happy when I found that Geometry Wars 2 was being rendered at 1080p, looked like a PC game.

that would be bad. current gen consoles 512mb total memory. realistically they are all 720p machines. you scale to 1080, not the other way around. working a game to 1080p is nothing but sacrifice on that level memory/gpu for a little more sharpness..and a whole lot less actual image quality. the difference is significant, at 1080p thats double the pixels to push and you don't do that without significant sacrifice. but still its interesting to allow people to use 1:1 mode. one less run through the scaler nm the overscan areas etc.