Mr Obama is advocating a massive economic stimulus in response to the current economic crisis

[Siddhartha]

I agree with Mr Obama. I see the potential of the economy going into a long deep recession without active federal government intervention.

Are reducing the role of government and lower taxes only the solutions or the most effective solution to the current economic situation?

What do you think the Federal government should do, if anything, in response to the current economic crisis.

 

[Capitalizt]

Bad companies (and some good ones) need to fail. Insolvent people need to be evicted and forced to rent instead. Companies who made bad loans need to go bankrupt and be bought out by companies with healthy balance sheets. Prices need to come down and the market needs to reach a natural equilibrium. Yes, this might mean a temporary deflation, but it is a healthy thing in the long run and will eventually be balanced out by increased demand for the cheaper goods. A hard and painful correction is the CURE to this problem. Everything would be fine if we just let this process take place. Unfortunately our government is refusing to let it happen. They are printing money and trying to pump everything back up..which is only going to prolong the agony and waste valuable resources.

If you swallow poison, your body will go through the rather unpleasant process of vomiting. Despite the nastiness, it is actually a GOOD thing. But if your physician acted like the feds and instead tried to numb your gag reflex and settle your stomach, the results would be disastrous. Nature needs to take it's course. Let it happen.

 

[Robor]

The answer is...

...way above my pay grade.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Bad companies (and some good ones) need to fail. Insolvent people need to be evicted and forced to rent instead. Companies who made bad loans need to go bankrupt and be bought out by companies with healthy balance sheets. Prices need to come down and the market needs to reach a natural equilibrium. That is the CURE to this problem. Yes, this might mean a temporary deflation, but it is a healthy thing in the long run and will eventually be balanced out by increased demand for the cheaper goods. A hard and painful correction is the CURE to this problem. Everything would be fine if we just let this process take place. Unfortunately our government is refusing to let it happen. They are printing money and trying to pump everything back up..which is only going to prolong the agony and waste valuable resources.

If you swallow poison, your body will go through the rather unpleasant process of vomiting. Despite the nastiness, it is actually a GOOD thing. But if your physician acted like the feds and instead tried to numb your gag reflex and settle your stomach, the results would be disastrous. Nature needs to take it's course. Let it happen.

:thumbsup:

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Bad companies (and some good ones) need to fail. Insolvent people need to be evicted and forced to rent instead. Companies who made bad loans need to go bankrupt and be bought out by companies with healthy balance sheets. Prices need to come down and the market needs to reach a natural equilibrium. That is the CURE to this problem. Yes, this might mean a temporary deflation, but it is a healthy thing in the long run and will eventually be balanced out by increased demand for the cheaper goods. A hard and painful correction is the CURE to this problem. Everything would be fine if we just let this process take place. Unfortunately our government is refusing to let it happen. They are printing money and trying to pump everything back up..which is only going to prolong the agony and waste valuable resources.

If you swallow poison, your body will go through the rather unpleasant process of vomiting. Despite the nastiness, it is actually a GOOD thing. But if your physician acted like the feds and instead tried to numb your gag reflex and settle your stomach, the results would be disastrous. Nature needs to take it's course. Let it happen.

Well, if the result is a 10 year recession, then this isn't a good idea. Look at what happened to Japan in the early 90s. This is similar to when Reagan entered office. Unemployment is high and we are in the midst of a recession. You have to spend your way out of it to massively invest in the US of A.

 

[halik]

They need to focus on the credit markets and make sure lending is happening. It's the end of the business cycle, so there will be a slow down regardless.

 

[retrospooty]

The bailouts need to stop - and so do the stimulus packages.

the banks, OK, we all get it, if the lending stops, we go into full fledged depression --- but if we bail out the big 3 auto makers, just so they can lose more money and make more bad cars that fall apart, I will be SO freegin pissed at Obama and the dems I will puke. They need to die, file for bankruptcy. Thier assets wil be bought out and manufacturing will continue after stripping out the fat - so that profits can be made, and jobs can be saved.

 

[StageLeft]

I just wish any bailout could be $5M more than he says so that he can give me some of it.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I just wish any bailout could be $5M more than he says so that he can give me some of it.

Make that $10M and count me in as well. :laugh:

 

[Slew Foot]

another $600 billion down the hole today. Geez, Im surprised we arent wiping our ass with greenbacks yet.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_bi_ge/mortgage_debt

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
another $600 billion down the hole today. Geez, Im surprised we arent wiping our ass with greenbacks yet.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_bi_ge/mortgage_debt

its coming. You can go on printing money into infinity...it will be time to pay the piper soon.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
another $600 billion down the hole today. Geez, Im surprised we arent wiping our ass with greenbacks yet.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_bi_ge/mortgage_debt

My second sig-prediction seems actually cute now in its naivete. This has gone so far beyond.

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
another $600 billion down the hole today. Geez, Im surprised we arent wiping our ass with greenbacks yet.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_bi_ge/mortgage_debt

And notice the dollar/Euro has gone from $1.25 to nearly $1.31 in less than 36 hrs. I'm telling you, once the deleveraging settles down, given all the spending plans and printing of money going on by the Fed, our dollar is doomed. Expect that to be $1.40+ very shortly.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: brencat

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
another $600 billion down the hole today. Geez, Im surprised we arent wiping our ass with greenbacks yet.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_bi_ge/mortgage_debt

And notice the dollar/Euro has gone from $1.25 to nearly $1.31 in less than 36 hrs. I'm telling you, once the deleveraging settles down, given all the spending plans and printing of money going on by the Fed, our dollar is doomed. Expect that to be $1.40+ very shortly.

Weakening against CAD it seems, too. I pay student loans in Canadian funds and love a weak Canadian dollar.

 

[Xavier434]

Obama does not support writing the Big 3 a blank check bailout as he clearly stated in the press conference yesterday. The idea here is not to bailout the Big 3. The idea is to prevent them from having to file Ch. 7. Perhaps the government assisting them with Ch. 11 is the answer Obama and his staff are considering? Only time will tell.

The point is that there does exist some effective middle ground options between blank checks and simply ignoring them as they vanish into nothing.

 

[winnar111]

He doesn't give a damn about the company. It's about propping up the union that relies on the company.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111
He doesn't give a damn about the company. It's about propping up the union that relies on the company.

If that is true then why does he not support writing a blank check style bailout?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: winnar111
He doesn't give a damn about the company. It's about propping up the union that relies on the company.

If that is true then why does he not support writing a blank check style bailout?

The man is a snake oil salesman and a poker player. He won't show his hand before its needed.

Chapter 11 is the Republican position. Pelosi and company want to hand them free cash so they can turn it over to the union extortionists.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: winnar111
He doesn't give a damn about the company. It's about propping up the union that relies on the company.

If that is true then why does he not support writing a blank check style bailout?

The man is a snake oil salesman and a poker player. He won't show his hand before its needed.

Chapter 11 is the Republican position. Pelosi and company want to hand them free cash so they can turn it over to the union extortionists.

I totally agree with the reps on this... They need to file bk and get it over with. They cant contunue losing money - they need a total company enema.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
another $600 billion down the hole today. Geez, Im surprised we arent wiping our ass with greenbacks yet.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_bi_ge/mortgage_debt

Apparently nobody is asking the obvious question "Once everything is liquid again* who are banks going to loan all this liquid cash to?"

The people and companies that already can't pay their bills?

* Because that's the line we're fed every time another bank is bailed out.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: winnar111
He doesn't give a damn about the company. It's about propping up the union that relies on the company.

If that is true then why does he not support writing a blank check style bailout?

The man is a snake oil salesman and a poker player. He won't show his hand before its needed.

Chapter 11 is the Republican position. Pelosi and company want to hand them free cash so they can turn it over to the union extortionists.

It all boils down to the detailed conditions. Obama wants to provide government assistance, but he does not want to hand them free cash without proper conditions. The details beyond that are uncertain. There are middle ground options to consider and many versions which could work. If Pelosi simply wanted to hand them free cash without proper conditions then it would have happened already. All we can do is hope that the standards and ideas they put forth are good enough and if not then we need to hope that the President will veto the decision. We do not even know for certain if the veto decision will be Obama's or Bush's yet if I am not mistaken.

I don't have an issue with Ch. 11 but not without government support which helps prevent them from eventually filing Ch. 7. I am also willing to consider other options that do not involve Ch. 11 as long as it is not a straight up bailout with little to no conditions and as long as it helps avoid Ch. 7. That is where a lot of Reps and I may disagree, but the bottom line is both sides need to play ball here if we are to do this in a way that is best for country.

The rest revolves around confidence in both government and the market which you and I disagree on very much, but that is not worth arguing about. I have confidence in Obama and you do not. It's that simple.

 

[ProfJohn]

It might be a good idea to give the big 3 the $25 billion now and wait till the economy recovers to go through the shock of chapter 11.

If we go chapter 11 now it will result in a ton of job losses and right now there are no jobs out there so it could be a disaster. But wait a year or two when the economy is growing and then thew job losses won't hurt as much.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Well, if the result is a 10 year recession, then this isn't a good idea. Look at what happened to Japan in the early 90s. This is similar to when Reagan entered office. Unemployment is high and we are in the midst of a recession. You have to spend your way out of it to massively invest in the US of A.

unemployment is about the historical average. usually this would be considered a decent amount of unemployment, except the last 10 or 11 years have had ridiculously low unemployment.



anyway, we should get to rebuilding/strengthening infrastructure. better electric transmission system, rebuild bridges, straighten and rebuild freight rail lines, build high speed passenger rail lines (airport systems are already overloaded, building a new airport near NYC wouldn't increase capacity).

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: brencat

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
another $600 billion down the hole today. Geez, Im surprised we arent wiping our ass with greenbacks yet.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_bi_ge/mortgage_debt

And notice the dollar/Euro has gone from $1.25 to nearly $1.31 in less than 36 hrs. I'm telling you, once the deleveraging settles down, given all the spending plans and printing of money going on by the Fed, our dollar is doomed. Expect that to be $1.40+ very shortly.

you realized that europeans are implementing the same policies just as fast, right?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: winnar111
He doesn't give a damn about the company. It's about propping up the union that relies on the company.

If that is true then why does he not support writing a blank check style bailout?

The man is a snake oil salesman and a poker player. He won't show his hand before its needed.

Chapter 11 is the Republican position. Pelosi and company want to hand them free cash so they can turn it over to the union extortionists.

republicans don't matter, noone cares about their position because its irrelevant.