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Mr. Heater Portable Buddy propane heater for emergencies.

These heaters are designed for outdoor use, like emergency water line breaks, etc, where you want to keep your workers warmer than they'd be without it.

That being said, they have no way to exhaust the carbon monoxide outside, if you use it indoors (like any natural gas appliance would), and WILL KILL YOU IF YOU USE IT INDOORS.

Did I make that clear enough??
 
marvdmartian said:
These heaters are designed for outdoor use, like emergency water line breaks, etc, where you want to keep your workers warmer than they'd be without it.

That being said, they have no way to exhaust the carbon monoxide outside, if you use it indoors (like any natural gas appliance would), and WILL KILL YOU IF YOU USE IT INDOORS.

Did I make that clear enough??
Click to expand...
People don't get about "vent-less" gas logs. You must have a large enough area.
 
marvdmartian said:
These heaters are designed for outdoor use, like emergency water line breaks, etc, where you want to keep your workers warmer than they'd be without it.

That being said, they have no way to exhaust the carbon monoxide outside, if you use it indoors (like any natural gas appliance would), and WILL KILL YOU IF YOU USE IT INDOORS.

Did I make that clear enough??
Click to expand...

That is false. I used one of those same models inside a 34' Airstream trailer and did not asphyxiate. They only make carbon monoxide if the combustion process is not complete, and they are designed for compete combustion.

The trailer I stayed in was older and a bit leaky, so it never came close to burning all of the oxygen in my space.

The point is that ceramic propane fired heaters are designed for complete combustion, and I am living proof they can be used indoors in very small spaces.

I mean if you want to scare people, then ya, monoxide poisoning is a very real thing, but not as easy as you make it out to be, especially with some common sense.
 
Thanks for your replies everyone. I live in an apartment with all electric. I can't store messy gasoline for a generator or smelly kerosene for a heater. I'm not sure what else I can do to stay warm during another emergency like Sandy.

What if I crack a window or windows when using the heater and use a CO alarm? I won't use it when sleeping and will probably only use it in short burst to take the chill out of the room.
 
balloonshark said:
Thanks for your replies everyone. I live in an apartment with all electric. I can't store messy gasoline for a generator or smelly kerosene for a heater. I'm not sure what else I can do to stay warm during another emergency like Sandy.

What if I crack a window or windows when using the heater and use a CO alarm? I won't use it when sleeping and will probably only use it in short burst to take the chill out of the room.
Click to expand...

You will definitely be ok in that scenario. I used one even overnight, and had no problems. If you are in a newer, better sealed place, then it might not be a bad idea to let some fresh air in. However, being that you will be awake, you would be aware of asphyxiation a lot more than if asleep. I mean, you will probably have psychosomatic responses and think you are suffocating, now that you have read these posts.

Make sure to set your CO alarm at the right height, and dont worry.
 
natto fire said:
You will definitely be ok in that scenario. I used one even overnight, and had no problems. If you are in a newer, better sealed place, then it might not be a bad idea to let some fresh air in. However, being that you will be awake, you would be aware of asphyxiation a lot more than if asleep. I mean, you will probably have psychosomatic responses and think you are suffocating, now that you have read these posts.

Make sure to set your CO alarm at the right height, and dont worry.
Click to expand...
Thanks natto! Is there an odor or do you think it would bother someone who has lung problems?
 
balloonshark said:
Thanks natto! Is there an odor or do you think it would bother someone who has lung problems?
Click to expand...

It is an odorless gas. Someone with lung problems might show symptoms beforehand, but best to be prepared in case.

I had a CO detector mounted about the level my face was during sleeping, and it never went off. Many people I was cohabiting with had a similar setup and never got a warning.

Simply put, you will be able to see if one of these ceramic type heaters are not obtaining complete combustion, as the whole plate will not glow orange. LPG is chosen as a gas to burn inside in ICE situations because it burns complete so easily.
 
That's good to hear. I just want to be safe and not cause problems for my relative. I'll start looking for a CO detector. I'll also keep an eye on the heater while using it.
 
Get a carbon monoxide detector - more than half of the states *require* one in all residential households.

If you use a propane burner, make sure the flames are BLUE - no yellow at all.
 
DrPizza said:
Get a carbon monoxide detector - more than half of the states *require* one in all residential households.

If you use a propane burner, make sure the flames are BLUE - no yellow at all.
Click to expand...
Thanks DrPizza. I will definitely get a CO detector. It looks like I may be able to see the flames at the bottom of the unit but the tile should be an orange color according to the video.
 
natto fire said:
That is false. I used one of those same models inside a 34' Airstream trailer and did not asphyxiate. They only make carbon monoxide if the combustion process is not complete, and they are designed for compete combustion.
Click to expand...

The danger is not just carbon monoxide. Its oxygen depletion and buildup of CO2/incidental combustion products.

natto fire said:
The trailer I stayed in was older and a bit leaky, so it never came close to burning all of the oxygen in my space.
Click to expand...

I'd still classify the leaky trailer as "outdoors" and safer than using something like that in a real indors scenario.

natto fire said:
The point is that ceramic propane fired heaters are designed for complete combustion, and I am living proof they can be used indoors in very small spaces.

I mean if you want to scare people, then ya, monoxide poisoning is a very real thing, but not as easy as you make it out to be, especially with some common sense.
Click to expand...


Call me old school, but I beleive all fossil fuel burning appliances should be vented outdoors. Even with complete combustion you are still getting a slew of other combustion products venting into the interior. Residual sulfur (and traces of other impurities such as mercury and radon) not removed from propane gas processing, mercaptan odorant that is combusted along with the fuel and nitrous oxides combustion byproducts. Combustion of hydrocarbon fuels also produces water vapor exhaust product which has its own consequences when dumped indoors and reach high enough levels.

The response from breathing in these combustion products is well documented and not psychosomatic. They are classified as air pollutants and shouldn't be dumped into an interior space. They are touted as clean burning (clean by comparison to burning coal or oil) but IMO unvented gas appliances are room vented and lung filtered.

Another point I'd like to make is the unit only completely combusts and releases CO2 under proper operating conditions. In a malfunction or degraded condition, the unit may not burn properly and release CO. All unbeknownst to the user until the CO alarm goes off, Its just a risk that i dont need to take that can be solved by venting.

Using one of these heaters is OK in a pinch or emergency situation but I would never rely on or purposefuly install one indoors.


natto fire said:
Simply put, you will be able to see if one of these ceramic type heaters are not obtaining complete combustion, as the whole plate will not glow orange. LPG is chosen as a gas to burn inside in ICE situations because it burns complete so easily.
Click to expand...


Correct

DrPizza said:
Get a carbon monoxide detector - more than half of the states *require* one in all residential households.

If you use a propane burner, make sure the flames are BLUE - no yellow at all.
Click to expand...

Correct
 
As previously stated have a CO2 detector. There is no good reason not to have one.

I do not like the idea of this heater at all & I would never stay in a room with it running regardless of what kind of shut off timer or CO2 detector is present.
 
balloonshark said:
I bought a Mr. Heater Portable Buddy 4000 to 9000 btu propane heater for emergencies. It has an oxygen depletion sensor. Should I get some type of alarm (Carbon Monoxide ?) to keep in the room I'm heating?

Link to heater. http://www.mrheater.com/portable-buddy-heater.html
Click to expand...

Using this for emergency heat shouldn't be a big deal. It is actually quite efficient in burning off the propane and puts out a stupidly small number of carbon monoxide.

The big danger is when you hook these things up improperly to a large propane tank and burn it for an extended period of time without letting the carbon monoxide an avenue to escape or mix with fresh air. So I wouldn't shut you and the kiddos in a small room and light up the propane heater for 8 hours while you all sleep.

The propane heater will work best in something like a garage or shed building. It does not perform well outdoors because the pilot light is quickly extinguished by wind.

If you want to efficiently and safely heat the indoors of your home, you need a vented heating source. Even then, there are dangers of emitting carbon monoxide emissions to dangerous levels for a variety of reasons.


So, in end, do yourself a favor and buy CO detectors for good household coverage, regardless of whether or not you burn your buddy heater!


I tested it myself in my basement using the same device, I never saw any increase of carbon monoxide emissions while letting it run for quite a while. Just remember that you MUST vent and introduce fresh air, that deadly gas will hang around until it's pushed out.
 
Thanks for the extra input everyone. I understand your concern completely. Like I said this is something that will only be used if the power goes out. The place I stay is "leaky" as it has an in window air conditioners sloppily installed plus the door and windows leak cold air in. I'll also crack a window or let fresh air in through the door every now and again as well as purchase a CO detector.
 
Is there any way you could vent it to the outdoors? I've never used one of these things before so I don't know how difficult that might be.
 
I didn't see it mentioned but if it's not obvious be sure any detector you buy runs on batteries. If it plugs in and the power goes out you want it to still be useful.

Also it doesn't sound like it might be an issue, but meters like that prefer stable temps. I had one in my garage that I'd use in the winter when I turned on my propane heater so I could get some work done. But the condensation from me breathing and the now warm garage air hitting still cold objects (such as the meter) caused issues in its ability to do its job.
 
If this is an apartment, the property owner/manager would freak the f out if they knew you had a propane heater stored in there. Even if you vent it properly.
 
I've got a couple of these out in my metal shop. It's a huge/tall steel building though with open vents at the top. Not sure how I would feel about running it in a house. I probably wouldn't do it. At least not for very long....
 
marvdmartian said:
These heaters are designed for outdoor use, like emergency water line breaks, etc, where you want to keep your workers warmer than they'd be without it.

That being said, they have no way to exhaust the carbon monoxide outside, if you use it indoors (like any natural gas appliance would), and WILL KILL YOU IF YOU USE IT INDOORS.

Did I make that clear enough??
Click to expand...

You may want to know that in Europe they use small heaters like these in each room and do without central heating. What is clear is you are out of date.
 
Funny I was thinking about propane heaters not that long ago thinking it would be great for the garage. I'd like to be able to work in there in the winter, but it's not insulated or finished, but it could be useful to at least take the edge off but then I started to wonder how they're even vented. Though in my situation I could put it in the garage, let it run for like an hour or two, then turn it off when I go in. I'd just want to get the temp to above freezing so things like power tools work better.

I guess the answer is clear, they're not meant for indoor use. I've seen propane heaters used in outside settings with tarps around (but not air tight) where workers are say, pouring concrete or something, I think this is mostly what these are made for.

For emergency I suppose it would be ok though, like set it up in the basement pointing at the water pipes, and stay upstairs near a CO detector. Some of the heat will also go upstairs but the CO will have dissipated a bit, I think. You'd probably want to crack a basement window open a tad to let fresh air in. This would not exactly be the most efficient way for heat but work in an emergency.

Now if I were to setup something more permanent I'd probably just setup a propane furnace that is permanently installed and vented correctly with a fresh air combustion intake and exhaust. A furnace from a camper or motorhome would probably work.
 
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