Mp3 ripping question

[SmooveB]

First, what does the law say about ripping your own CD's onto your computer without plans to share them?

Second, Dave Matthews Band's new album Busted Stuff... I can't rip it. Is it possible to partition CD's? I think they may have done that, because I can't find any way to look at the .wav files. There is only an executable, nothing else.

 

[joinT]

you can do whatever you want with CD's you own. blow them up in the microwave if u wish

some new albums (especially from sony) have new copy protection. I read somewhere that if you use a felt-tip marker about the clear plastic outside edge - it will remove the protection. You can check google for more info on that.

 

[Moonbender]

AFAIK, circumventing copy protection is illegal under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Or is that only true for encryption.

 

[Workin']

Originally posted by: SmooveB
First, what does the law say about ripping your own CD's onto your computer without plans to share them?

You can copy them for your personal use. That is perfectly legal, no matter what the DMCA says. It is covered by the long-standing concept of "fair use" in copyright law and was further established in the Sony Betamax case (first brought to court in 1976 and confirmed by the Supreme Court of the United States in 1984).

Second, Dave Matthews Band's new album Busted Stuff... I can't rip it. Is it possible to partition CD's? I think they may have done that, because I can't find any way to look at the .wav files. There is only an executable, nothing else.

I think I read somewhere that DM's latest album is an enhanced CD and contains some crap that will run on your PC. The CD is divided into 2 sections - computer data and audio data (kind of like a game CD). You'll need to rip the audio with a program that understands the difference.

The DMCA is pure evil and blatantly unconstitutional, by the way. Government "by the people and for the people" has left the building long ago.

 

[Moonbender]

You can copy them for your personal use. That is perfectly legal, no matter what the DMCA says.

Hmm ... it is illegal to rip (ie. decss) DVDs, isn't it? That is, even if you're only going to use the rips themselves, ie. in spite of your right of "fair use". Note that I'm not saying the DMCA is a Good Thing, by all means it isn't it.

 

[Workin']

Hmm ... it is illegal to rip (ie. decss) DVDs, isn't it?

I think it is - I don't think the courts have decided. The only thing I've ever heard of was the DeCSS fiasco a year or more ago when they arrested and tried to extradite that poor Norwegian kid who cracked their seriously flawed encryption. But if it was truly illegal I would think they would try an dshut down all those web sites dedicated to ripping DVDs, like vcdhelp.com and doom9, unless those are outside the US? Doesn't seem like they are. I dunno...

 

[SmooveB]

Workin seems to know his stuff lol. Thanks for that help.

Now for my actual problem of not being able to rip them. I don't know of any programs that knows the difference between the data and audio portions of the CD. I tried Total Recorder, which would work fine if it were free... but right now I'm cut off after 40 seconds. Any suggestions on a different ripper? I read a 'favorite ripper' post a few weeks ago but don't really feel like trying each one to find what I need.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: Moonbender
You can copy them for your personal use. That is perfectly legal, no matter what the DMCA says.

Hmm ... it is illegal to rip (ie. decss) DVDs, isn't it? That is, even if you're only going to use the rips themselves, ie. in spite of your right of "fair use". Note that I'm not saying the DMCA is a Good Thing, by all means it isn't it.

That is because with dvds you don't OWN SH*T. Technically all you have the right to do is watch the movie in an approved player. You have no rights in regards to the movie. That means it IS illegal to rip the dvd.

With CDS, you actually own the cd so that is why fair use holds. I have a feeling cds will be the last medium where you actually own the product.

 

[Codewiz]

For ripping I recommend Exact Audio Copy (EAC) or CDex in that order.

Exact Audio Copy is what the name says, exact. It produces the best quality.

CDex is a good ripper and easier to use but not quite as good as EAC in my opinion.

 

[SmooveB]

I actually found one while looking at the lame site called out_lame that is just a plug-in for Winamp....

out_lame is a Winamp output plug-in to create MP3 files directly from Winamp. It is currently designed to work with Winamp 2.05 and all the upper 2.x versions (dunno about the 3.x ones) and uses the LAME DLL to encode to MP3. This plugin in now official supported by Winamp. That means you can get (older) versions on the official WinAmp website.

EAC is on there too so I will try it. Thanks all for your help.


What am I actually purchasing when I pay for a DVD?

 

[Codewiz]

What am I actually purchasing when I pay for a DVD?

The right to watch it on an approved player.

 

[Moonbender]

With CDS, you actually own the cd so that is why fair use holds. I have a feeling cds will be the last medium where you actually own the product.

Where does this difference come from? Some license agreement you "sign" by ripping open the package? I'm surprised, this is the first time I've heard there's a legal difference between DVDs and CDs.

But if it was truly illegal I would think they would try an dshut down all those web sites dedicated to ripping DVDs, like vcdhelp.com and doom9, unless those are outside the US?

I doubt they are outside the US, but the authorities probably don't follow up on those "crimes" anymore, since everybody and their grandma does it. Spreading the DeCSS source code in various forms has become a sort of sport in the open-source hacker scene, I doubt the FBI wants to crack down on all of them. Nevertheless, it remains illegal, not that most people (including me) gave a rats ass about it.

 

[SmooveB]

EAC didn't work... at all. Wouldn't even execute. Is that a WinXP problem?

CDex works, but it doesn't recognize my primary CD-Rom so I'm ripping off my burner... which I don't want to burn out so I use as little as possible. Also, I could use help getting the Winamp plug-in going... I configured it but I don't know how to make it do its thing =\... tried in both Winamp3 and Winamp 2.80.

 

[nord1899]

Okay, the problem with ripping DVDs is that they are copy protected. They have an encryption scheme which is used to protect the copyrighted material on the disc. It is illegal in the USA due to the DMCA. But by fair use rights (there is no actual law giving you fair use though) you are allowed to make one backup copy for personal use only.

With CD's, you can make one backup copy as per fair use rights.

Now to rip, I would recommend EAC. Followed by Razor Lame (if making a lot of mp3s at once) or just Lame if making a few. Then follow up with Tag and Rename to put in the ID3 tags.

 

[Moonbender]

With CD's, you can make one backup copy as per fair use rights.

Unless the CDs are protected by a copy protection scheme - as many current CDs are. If they are, ripping them is in the same category as ripping DVDs, illegal due to the DMCA. So either it's legal to both rip DVDs and (copy-protected) CDs, due to your right of fair use being more important than the DMCA, or it's the other way round.

 

[Workin']

There are so many issues involved here, and half these things are laws and the other half is just fear of legal hassle.

But by fair use rights (there is no actual law giving you fair use though)

Umm, yes there is! It's been well established in copyright law for nearly two hundred years! It's the whole basis behind the existence of libraries, for cryin' out loud. Maybe you haven't been to a library lately - they loan out music CD's and movies on VHS and DVD. It's all perfectly legal and all allowed under the fair use provisions explicitly granted in the law. The DMCA subverts that, and as soon as one of the challenged cases gets to the Supreme Court you can bet that large portions of this abomination will be ruled unconstitutional. The main thing about the DMCA is that it completely bypasses any semblance of due process as guaranteed by the constitution - anybody can shut down your enterprise just by making an accusation - no proof is needed that you are violating any law, and you don't necessarily even have the right to confront your accuser or even know who it is. Basically you are guilty until proven innocent. If I wanted to mess up your life all I'd have to do is hire some slimeball attorney and file a complaint that you are violating the DMCA - and boom! - you are out of business. No proof necessary. Of course after you spend thousands of dollars proving you did nothing wrong, you - and make no mistake the burden is on you to prove you are innocent, not on me to prove you are guilty - can go about your life again. This is scary stuff, unless you enjoy living in a police state.

DVD's are owned not licensed, I'm not sure where Codewiz gets that from. Maybe because the decoder software is licensed and the only way to play the DVD is using that software (whether it's built into a stand-alone player or whatever)?

So either it's legal to both rip DVDs and (copy-protected) CDs, due to your right of fair use being more important than the DMCA, or it's the other way round.

That pretty much sums it up (aside from the constitutional issues that go along with certain provisions of the enforcement of the law). And that hasn't been decided by the courts at this time. What do you think? Are the rights of the corporation greater than the rights of the individual? They're not supposed to be.

EAC should work just fine with WinXP - it does for me and many others. Make sure you are downloading from the "official" site www.exactaudiocopy.de and make sure your downloaded file is not corrupt.

 

[zodder]

EAC works fine on my XP machine. It ripped the new DMB cd without a hitch, too.

 

[nord1899]

Workin', everything I have read has pointed out that fair use is not actually law. At least not in the sense that it was written down and voted upon by Congress and approved by the President.

What I have heard is that fair use is a common law or understanding. That is, the courts have upheld that part of the copyright law allows the end-user fair use rights. At least this is the jist I got from reading Lawrence Lessig's book "Future of Ideas" and from various websites online.

So if you could, please find me a link pointing to the actual law stating that you have fair use rights and exactly what they are.

Thanks.

 

[Workin']

nord1899 - US Code, Title 17 is the actual federal copyright law in all it obfuscating glory. I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that many sections contradict what is said in other sections. Take a look and see what you think. Also, something doesn't have to be written explicitly to be a law or to to guide the application of the law as it is written. As far as I can tell, case law and previous court decisions can be more important than what is explicitly written.

 

[randypj]

I think I read somewhere that DM's latest album is an enhanced CD and contains some crap that will run on your PC. The CD is divided into 2 sections - computer data and audio data (kind of like a game CD). You'll need to rip the audio with a program that understands the difference.

If it is in fact an enhanced cd, and not copy protected, Nero should be able to rip it. I backed up my Natalie Merchant cd, which is enhanced or something, via Nero. Nero calls them either CD-Extra or Mixed Mode cds......and, I'll be dawged if I know the difference.

It is covered by the long-standing concept of "fair use" in copyright law and was further established in the Sony Betamax case (first brought to court in 1976 and confirmed by the Supreme Court of the United States in 1984).

Workin'.....and that would be back when I had my SL8200 Betamax (cost $1250 in '77) with piano keys, and single event add on timer, and traded tapes around the nation via a magazine called The Videophile? Hehe.....Disney goin' after Sony, cuz it was gonna bring down the whole industry. Imagine what the industry would be like if we couldn't rent videos.
--Randy

 

[Workin']

The actual name of the "Betamax" case was SONY CORPORATION OF AMERICA ET AL. v. UNIVERSAL CITY STUDIOS, INC., ET AL. with the final decison on January 17, 1984. Like you said, the movie industry would be sucking wind hard today if the VCR had been killed - that just goes to show you what wonderful foresight the entertainment industry possesses and why they are trying so hard to kill the golden goose today. They are morons.

My uncle had one of those first Beta VCRs, I remember the add-on timer, hell it had rotary knobs for the tuner! His also had an autoloader because a single tape could hold only 1 hour so you'd need to switch tapes in the middle of a movie.

An interesting nugget about copy-protected music CD's is that they have questionable legal standing because they don't conform to the red book standard for music CD's and therefore infringe on Phillip's copyrights for the CD Audio designation. I guess if Phillips wanted to go after them they could, and I have read that they are actually weighing the pros and cons of such action right now.