Motorcycle questions here too?

[racolvin]

I have yet to fine a bike maker that has a traditional looking bike but that is mechanically setup like a Scooter - no gears to shift and no rear-brake foot pedal. Anyone know of anything like this?

 

[JDub02]

the higher end scooters from most japanese manufacturers look similar to sport-touring bikes. i've also seen a few motorcycles with automatic transmissions.

 

[racolvin]

Yea, I've looked at the high-end scooters. I'm just having trouble figuring out why they can't do that sort of thing on a classic looking bike, say a mid-cruiser like a 600cc Shadow or something.

 

[JDub02]

http://www.ridleymotorcycles.com/

Ridley Motorcycles. The price is at or above a Harley, but they have CVT transmissions.

 

[Arkaign]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...s-in-japan-on-march-7/

^^ Automatic, easy-to-drive like a scooter, but in conventional packaging.

 

[JDub02]

and Yamaha makes a sport tourer (FJR) with an auto-clutch. i think you still have to shift, however.

 

[MovingTarget]

Try checking out a Scaraebo. They have a basic scooter setup, but enough power and large enough wheels to make it more of a motorcycle than a scooter.

http://www.apriliausa.com/mode...beo/modello.asp?id=103

 

[SithSolo1]

There's also the Aprilia Mana 850

http://www.apriliausa.com/mode...oad/modello.asp?id=124

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: racolvin
Yea, I've looked at the high-end scooters. I'm just having trouble figuring out why they can't do that sort of thing on a classic looking bike, say a mid-cruiser like a 600cc Shadow or something.

Because the market for such a thing is about 3 people.

Honda offered an "automatic" (really a pre-selector transmission with a torque converter) option on the CB750 from 1976-1978 and on the CB400/CM400/CB450 from 1978-1983. The models sold poorly and were discontinued. All of these models used a traditional foot pedal for the rear brake however.

ZV

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: racolvin
Yea, I've looked at the high-end scooters. I'm just having trouble figuring out why they can't do that sort of thing on a classic looking bike, say a mid-cruiser like a 600cc Shadow or something.

Because the market for such a thing is about 3 people.

Honda offered an "automatic" (really a pre-selector transmission with a torque converter) option on the CB750 from 1976-1978 and on the CB400/CM400/CB450 from 1978-1983. The models sold poorly and were discontinued. All of these models used a traditional foot pedal for the rear brake however.

ZV

Those were horrible bikes, felt like they were going to frag before they shifted...

Seems like most bike riders are very happy with the controls/transmission the way they are. Sort of separates the men from the boys IMHO...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: racolvin
Yea, I've looked at the high-end scooters. I'm just having trouble figuring out why they can't do that sort of thing on a classic looking bike, say a mid-cruiser like a 600cc Shadow or something.

Because the market for such a thing is about 3 people.

Honda offered an "automatic" (really a pre-selector transmission with a torque converter) option on the CB750 from 1976-1978 and on the CB400/CM400/CB450 from 1978-1983. The models sold poorly and were discontinued. All of these models used a traditional foot pedal for the rear brake however.

ZV

Those were horrible bikes, felt like they were going to frag before they shifted...

Seems like most bike riders are very happy with the controls/transmission the way they are. Sort of separates the men from the boys IMHO...

They didn't shift...

The transmission was a pre-selector type. It relied completely upon torque converter slip for torque multiplication at low speeds. The rider had to manually select either "Low" or "Drive", with "Low" being good only up to around 60 mph.

If the rider selected "Low" while stopped, he or she would have to manually move the selector into "Drive" to engage the higher gear once moving. Selecting "Drive" while stopped engaged the higher gear only and, because the torque converter provided enough slip, the rider could simply leave the motorcycle in high gear all the time and ride it without ever shifting.

ZV

 

[hanoverphist]

im very glad my cb750 wasnt an AT. i rode a 400AT for giggles, it was slow to roll, hard shifting and kind of unreliable when needed.

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Seems like most bike riders are very happy with the controls/transmission the way they are. Sort of separates the men from the boys IMHO...

Oh I dunno about that part but when the wife wants to ride but doesn't like the idea of shifting, you look for alternatives She doesn't like the look of a scooter, even the high-end ones, but the whole "1 down, 3 up" sort of idea for shifting just drives her bonkers, so she won't consider a regular bike.

Frankly I don't blame her, I've never liked that myself. You get used to it of course but that doesn't make it any less annoying

In some ways I'm right there with her .. I wouldn't mind a bike that looks like a bigger cruiser but uses a CVT and just dual hand brakes rather than a foot pedal for the rear. Makes perfect sense to me, since that's how it is on my mountain bike

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: racolvin
but the whole "1 down, 3 up" sort of idea for shifting just drives her bonkers, so she won't consider a regular bike.

Frankly I don't blame her, I've never liked that myself. You get used to it of course but that doesn't make it any less annoying

Really? The sequential setup has always seemed much more "normal" than the H-pattern used in cars. It made perfect sense to me right from the start.

Of course, I was riding motorcycles before I was driving standard-transmission cars, so maybe that has something to do with it.

EDIT: Most of the reason that bikes tend to have manual transmissions is a space issue. A sequential transmission can be made very compact and still be very strong. The little CVT or centrifugal clutch transmissions used in scooters cannot handle the power of a full-sized motorcycle, but a proper automatic has historically been too large and heavy. With the advent of transmissions like the DSG I can imagine seeing that sort of transmission eventually appearing on a motorcycle.

I don't see companies going away from the foot pedal rear brake, however, as it would mean that they would need to engineer different rear brake assemblies for their automatic-equipped bikes which is an expense they would probably like to avoid. Also, it would mean inconsistency in controls when they are otherwise standardized, which isn't always a good thing.

ZV

 

[Bulk Beef]

If you think shifting is annoying, you should just stick to four wheels.

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: Bulk Beef
If you think shifting is annoying, you should just stick to four wheels.

Shifting is fine on the open road when you don't do it that often - once you get in high gear and cruise, its a non-issue. But for in-town, stop and go traffic, shifting is a PITA, whether on two wheels or four.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: racolvin

Originally posted by: Bulk Beef
If you think shifting is annoying, you should just stick to four wheels.

Shifting is fine on the open road when you don't do it that often - once you get in high gear and cruise, its a non-issue. But for in-town, stop and go traffic, shifting is a PITA, whether on two wheels or four.

meh. disagree

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

I don't see companies going away from the foot pedal rear brake, however, as it would mean that they would need to engineer different rear brake assemblies for their automatic-equipped bikes which is an expense they would probably like to avoid. Also, it would mean inconsistency in controls when they are otherwise standardized, which isn't always a good thing.

ZV

ive seen custom choppers that had both brakes fed from the right handle with a dual chamber master cylinder like most cars use. the cool thing is the master cyl was hidden below, brake cables hidden inside the handlebars. pretty damn smoov if ya ask me. thats the way im gonna go when i finally build my dream bike. im also going to have a retro tank shift modified to a "suicide" shift like my old 45 knuckle had. hell, i may even get the retro 74ci knuckle heads for it too.


edit:

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: racolvin

Originally posted by: Bulk Beef
If you think shifting is annoying, you should just stick to four wheels.

Shifting is fine on the open road when you don't do it that often - once you get in high gear and cruise, its a non-issue. But for in-town, stop and go traffic, shifting is a PITA, whether on two wheels or four.

meh. disagree

i disagree also, its not really that hard. my bike was my only transpo for a long time until i had kids, and my truck now is a manual trans. it doesnt bother me too much, and i sit in a lot of city traffic.

 

[Greenman]

I ran across a fellow who put a centrifugal clutch and an electric shifter on a Harley, it worked, though I don't know how well.

 

[DVad3r]

Isn't that new Honda bike automatic? Too lazy to look it up but it's actually pretty comfy, sat on it at the bike show.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

I don't see companies going away from the foot pedal rear brake, however, as it would mean that they would need to engineer different rear brake assemblies for their automatic-equipped bikes which is an expense they would probably like to avoid. Also, it would mean inconsistency in controls when they are otherwise standardized, which isn't always a good thing.

ZV

ive seen custom choppers that had both brakes fed from the right handle with a dual chamber master cylinder like most cars use. the cool thing is the master cyl was hidden below, brake cables hidden inside the handlebars. pretty damn smoov if ya ask me. thats the way im gonna go when i finally build my dream bike. im also going to have a retro tank shift modified to a "suicide" shift like my old 45 knuckle had. hell, i may even get the retro 74ci knuckle heads for it too.

I could see the use of a linked braking system (already in use on many bikes) with the pedal for the rear brake eliminated which is essentially what you describe. This does reduce the amount of control that a rider has though and, on a bike, being able to continuously adjust the front/rear braking force is fairly important if you intend to ride at any kind of speed.

ZV

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: racolvin

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Seems like most bike riders are very happy with the controls/transmission the way they are. Sort of separates the men from the boys IMHO...

Oh I dunno about that part but when the wife wants to ride but doesn't like the idea of shifting, you look for alternatives She doesn't like the look of a scooter, even the high-end ones, but the whole "1 down, 3 up" sort of idea for shifting just drives her bonkers, so she won't consider a regular bike.

Frankly I don't blame her, I've never liked that myself. You get used to it of course but that doesn't make it any less annoying

In some ways I'm right there with her .. I wouldn't mind a bike that looks like a bigger cruiser but uses a CVT and just dual hand brakes rather than a foot pedal for the rear. Makes perfect sense to me, since that's how it is on my mountain bike

It's par for the course. Get used to it or don't ride a real bike. She can ride a Vespa.

 

[MiataNC]

Scooters in the 400-650cc range are fully automatic (CVT) and more than capable of keeping up with traffic 60mph+. They have TONS of luggage space without the need to add hard/soft bags, and they get great gas mileage.

If a person has "issues" with how a scooter looks, then they need to suck it up and learn to shift a bike that suits their demand for form over function.

 

[Greenman]

This is what you should get her, these things set the standard for badass scooters.
http://www.pinktentacle.com/20...anese-custom-scooters/

 

[MovingTarget]

On second thought, you may want to check out the Piaggo MP3. Saw one in person today. You will definitely stand out in one of those!