Motorcycle Commuting - Why go bigger?

[satyajitmenon]

What? Am I missing something?

People on this forum are always telling new motorcyclists to get 250cc bikes... then they want to upgrade a little while later because they're not powerful enough. It would make more sense to be able to detune a bigger engine to reduce horsepower.

I think manufacturers offer this in the UK, and Australia too.

 

[Doppel]

I think I said the same thing about 400HP cars. Shit cars like mine hit red line every single day and use every bit of power the engine can put out. In a car with a V6, it mostly goes unused, but is still used when passing cars on the highway. Up around 400HP in a car or having a 1300cc GSXR is just completely pointless. The first three gears can't be full throttled because you'll lose control and die. If you're in the other gears and are going full throttle then you are probably going way too fast and will die.

Stay small. Having tons of power and not being allowed to use it is just a cock tease. That's like having a super hot wife that you can't have sex with. Like what's the point?

Sounds like something I'd say, and in fact have said. I do believe it, but also some part of me wonders if it's a coping mechanism. In any case, I readily admit I'd love 400 horsepower in my commuter, but it will never get used without fear of cops on a public road anyway. Basically any V6 family sedan now can get you in trouble very damn quickly on public roads if you're not careful.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Buy a bike with a 600cc engine. Detune it so it makes as little power as a 250cc engine because you're a new rider who everybody and his grandmother says needs to start off on a 250cc bike.


When you outgrow the 250cc level of power, restore it to full horsepower.

This would have benefitted DirthNader and FuzzyBabyBunny, who a couple months ago was saying his Ninja isn't powerful enough anymore.


Is that so fucking hard to understand? Do you tell small children they should buy tricycles instead of get training wheels on their bicycles?

No, because detuning a heavier race bred bike doesn't make it any easier to ride. Smaller displacement bikes are also lighter which makes them ideal for learning to ride.

 

[JulesMaximus]

+1

Go get a Honda Ruckus and hang out with the 'hellaflush' crowd.

LOLOLOL D:

LOL!!! Those just look ridiculous. Sad thing is, I've seen a few of them around here.

 

[Greenman]

+1

Go get a Honda Ruckus and hang out with the 'hellaflush' crowd.

LOLOLOL D:

That's just plain cool. I'd buy it if the price was right.

 

[Greenman]

To answer the OP, a little power is nice to have on tap. Personally, I don't like the inline 4's because you have to wind them up pretty tight to develop any real power. I much prefer a v twin because you get horsepower and torque. Lots of torque is lots of fun. I have a buddy who's Harley puts out 119 pounds of torque at the rear wheel, twist the throttle in any gear at any speed and it goes. That's one of the reasons so many people like Harleys, they don't have much horsepower, but they have a ton of grunt.

 

[exdeath]

I think I said the same thing about 400HP cars. Shit cars like mine hit red line every single day and use every bit of power the engine can put out. In a car with a V6, it mostly goes unused, but is still used when passing cars on the highway. Up around 400HP in a car or having a 1300cc GSXR is just completely pointless. The first three gears can't be full throttled because you'll lose control and die. If you're in the other gears and are going full throttle then you are probably going way too fast and will die.

Stay small. Having tons of power and not being allowed to use it is just a cock tease. That's like having a super hot wife that you can't have sex with. Like what's the point?

:thumbsdown:

It's not pointless when everyone else around you has 300 HP and you only have 90 HP and get tossed around in traffic like a bitch at everyone elses mercy... people are animals, they see and smell weakness and they exploit it. It blows having to wait in the right lane for half the world to blow around you, and wait until there's nothing left behind or next to you but a tumble weed, before you are "allowed" to move because you're car is so slow it poses a hazardous obstacle to other vehicles.

I like having more passing power in 6th gear at 85 than everyone else does in 1st. I like being able to change lanes without causing people to have to brake for me and pissing them off in the process. And I also use that power often without killing myself or getting in trouble. I don't care for 100+, I'm perfectly content doing 0 to speed limit before I cross the intersection and cruising down the highway at 1500 RPM with the windows down.

Being completely immune to other driver's petty machismo posturing bullshit and being able to just relax and drive and mind your own business is a whole 'nother driving experience. In a world where the avg aggressive cocky teen with a backward baseball cap in mom's mini van is pushing 300 HP, driving a 90 HP car is stressful and infuriating. Driving a 600+ HP car is tranquil and stress free. It's really something you need to experience before commenting. There is nothing quite like a third gear pull on an on ramp and then effortlessly coasting through the merge and the next half mile and still keeping up with or passing traffic. Contrast with redlining your Corolla and still getting blown out of your lane by the SUVs and semis blowing by you at twice your speed as you hit the top of the on ramp hoping someone will turn their cruise control off and let you merge.

It's also fun to warp people's sense of reality when they are smirking at you at the light and chirp their tires "at" you. There is no harm in a little 0-40 yank. And 0-100 in the blink of an eye and then slowing down and it being over with before you've even covered a block is a whole lot safer than being at 80, 90, 100+ for 30 seconds at a time over a mile plus and flying past side streets because it takes you that long to get there. Most all the high speed wrecks I've seen are slow commuter cars because they stay in it and stay in it and stay in it and cover great distances durring their acceleration and a expose themselves to a huge window of opportunity for disaster because their car is slow, not because it's fast. Also they are more likely to act desperate and take risks, swerve and weave between traffic to maintain that speed once they get there, because they know it took them forever to accelerate in the first place. Slowing down and having their pants down having to repeat the slow process of accelerating again is the last thing they want to do. Again more room for error. With more power, you're more relaxed and don't care if you have to play it safe and slow down for a moment because with a flick of your right toe you're there again without any drama or suspense.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Do you tell small children they should buy tricycles instead of get training wheels on their bicycles?

Actually, most people do start small children out on tricycles before then moving them to bikes with training wheels and without training wheels and then the kid's first 10-speed.

Regardless, the analogy doesn't stand. Starting out on a 600 is like giving your 6-year old a Kestrel RT 1000 with clipless pedals and saying "good luck". Additionally, the power difference between a 600 and a 250 means that a novice mistake with throttle control is far more dangerous. With bikes, the amount of power is always the same (you). Finally, the consequences of a mistake on a bicycle are a skinned knee, on a motorcycle, there's a little bit more to worry about.

ZV

 

[crosshairs]

I typically only ride to work and I disagree.

My commute is 13 miles each way, 12 of those miles are interstate with 1/2 mile of on/off ramp and city street on each end. With a smaller bike I always felt merging and working my way over to the left lane to be a chore. With the 1200 I just sort of casually zip into traffic, find a hole and blip the throttle to get in. Getting over into the left lane is even easier.

My riding (and driving) style is very casual and not aggressive at all and with the 1200 I can sort of calmly ride to work without worrying about traffic too much. Additionally when I get to my exit, it can be a real PITA to get over as traffic is thick at this point. Again, put the blinker on, find a hole and zip on over.

With a smaller bike I always felt I was fighting the bike for the right gear or really having to give it the beans to get into and out of traffic. The 1200 is like butter, power on demand, smooth and consistent. I'd never go back to a 250.

Except he addresses that in his post..

Commute is 11 miles one way in light to medium traffic. Speed limit never goes over 45mph. There are one or two places where you can safely go ~65mph and not risk getting caught. The closest thing to a curve in my locale is a green light at an intersection with no one in front of you in the turn lane.

I also addressed your other points in my post, and said that the 250 was underpowered...and I dont like riding them,but it would be Ok for him for how he is using it.

However,the one big downfall about the 250 is that the bike lacks the power to get you OUT of trouble.....I find it way to slow to accelerate out of a bad situation....such as someone coming into your lane, and forward is the only place for you to go...twist the throttle and count to 10..if your lucky,you may be 5 feet ahead of the person.....

 

[T2urtle]

I don't know about u, but I want to get on the highway and feel somewhat safe. I took my gs500 up to 80 on the highway and just gave up and took local. The bike was just completely shaking. I can't see anything in my mirrors. Very unsafe for me. My 500 should top out near 115 but it would be stupid to try. I'm looking at 650r/sv650 to upgrade to start of next season.

Sent from my Nexus One

 

[JulesMaximus]

I don't know about u, but I want to get on the highway and feel somewhat safe. I took my gs500 up to 80 on the highway and just gave up and took local. The bike was just completely shaking. I can't see anything in my mirrors. Very unsafe for me. My 500 should top out near 115 but it would be stupid to try. I'm looking at 650r/sv650 to upgrade to start of next season.

Sent from my Nexus One

Sounds like there's something wrong with your bike. I'd start by checking the steering head nut and make sure it isn't loose.

 

[satyajitmenon]

Sounds like there's something wrong with your bike. I'd start by checking the steering head nut and make sure it isn't loose.

This.

I've taken a GS500 up to highway speeds with no problems whatsoever. Granted, it was a 2-3 yr old one. So not sure if older models had stability issues.

 

[Greenman]

I don't know about u, but I want to get on the highway and feel somewhat safe. I took my gs500 up to 80 on the highway and just gave up and took local. The bike was just completely shaking. I can't see anything in my mirrors. Very unsafe for me. My 500 should top out near 115 but it would be stupid to try. I'm looking at 650r/sv650 to upgrade to start of next season.

Sent from my Nexus One

You have a mechanical problem that has to be addressed. It could be steering head bearings, wheel alignment, or even a broken motor mount. Get is repaired ASAP.

 

[skyking]

A slightly bigger thumper would be nice. I don't know what is available that way, but I had fun with my 500 thumper back in "the day"

 

[Greenman]

:thumbsdown:

It's not pointless when everyone else around you has 300 HP and you only have 90 HP and get tossed around in traffic like a bitch at everyone elses mercy... people are animals, they see and smell weakness and they exploit it. It blows having to wait in the right lane for half the world to blow around you, and wait until there's nothing left behind or next to you but a tumble weed, before you are "allowed" to move because you're car is so slow it poses a hazardous obstacle to other vehicles.

I like having more passing power in 6th gear at 85 than everyone else does in 1st. I like being able to change lanes without causing people to have to brake for me and pissing them off in the process. And I also use that power often without killing myself or getting in trouble. I don't care for 100+, I'm perfectly content doing 0 to speed limit before I cross the intersection and cruising down the highway at 1500 RPM with the windows down.

Being completely immune to other driver's petty machismo posturing bullshit and being able to just relax and drive and mind your own business is a whole 'nother driving experience. In a world where the avg aggressive cocky teen with a backward baseball cap in mom's mini van is pushing 300 HP, driving a 90 HP car is stressful and infuriating. Driving a 600+ HP car is tranquil and stress free. It's really something you need to experience before commenting. There is nothing quite like a third gear pull on an on ramp and then effortlessly coasting through the merge and the next half mile and still keeping up with or passing traffic. Contrast with redlining your Corolla and still getting blown out of your lane by the SUVs and semis blowing by you at twice your speed as you hit the top of the on ramp hoping someone will turn their cruise control off and let you merge.

It's also fun to warp people's sense of reality when they are smirking at you at the light and chirp their tires "at" you. There is no harm in a little 0-40 yank. And 0-100 in the blink of an eye and then slowing down and it being over with before you've even covered a block is a whole lot safer than being at 80, 90, 100+ for 30 seconds at a time over a mile plus and flying past side streets because it takes you that long to get there. Most all the high speed wrecks I've seen are slow commuter cars because they stay in it and stay in it and stay in it and cover great distances durring their acceleration and a expose themselves to a huge window of opportunity for disaster because their car is slow, not because it's fast. Also they are more likely to act desperate and take risks, swerve and weave between traffic to maintain that speed once they get there, because they know it took them forever to accelerate in the first place. Slowing down and having their pants down having to repeat the slow process of accelerating again is the last thing they want to do. Again more room for error. With more power, you're more relaxed and don't care if you have to play it safe and slow down for a moment because with a flick of your right toe you're there again without any drama or suspense.

Did you assume your stance of dominance while writing that? Cause it's all macho bullshit. You own a muscle car because when you're behind the wheel you feel like the alpha male. Everything you said is justification for doing something that's foolish waste of money.
For the record, I like muscle cars, and get a chubby driving them, but lets be honest about the reasons why.

 

[LTC8K6]

With the 250, I can probably run you down on the highway with my SUV.

With the 650, you can get away.

 

[JCH13]

I think I said the same thing about 400HP cars. Shit cars like mine hit red line every single day and use every bit of power the engine can put out. In a car with a V6, it mostly goes unused, but is still used when passing cars on the highway. Up around 400HP in a car or having a 1300cc GSXR is just completely pointless. The first three gears can't be full throttled because you'll lose control and die. If you're in the other gears and are going full throttle then you are probably going way too fast and will die.

Stay small. Having tons of power and not being allowed to use it is just a cock tease. That's like having a super hot wife that you can't have sex with. Like what's the point?

A wise many once told me: "Driving your car fast is like a little ray of sunshine, and I like all of my days to be sunny."

You simply can't appreciate the enjoyment of having all of that fun on tap whenever you want it because it seems you've never had it. In the words on Ron White: "once you've seen one woman naked, you... wanna see the rest of 'em naked" the principal holds true for power mods.

OP: try something with more juice and see how you like it! Maybe find a local who'll let you borrow their bike or go take one for a test drive from a dealer.

 

[satyajitmenon]

OP: try something with more juice and see how you like it! Maybe find a local who'll let you borrow their bike or go take one for a test drive from a dealer.

Dirth, you're welcome to take mine for a spin - if you were willing to ride up north for it.

 

[Vic Vega]

:thumbsdown:

It's not pointless when everyone else around you has 300 HP and you only have 90 HP and get tossed around in traffic like a bitch at everyone elses mercy... people are animals, they see and smell weakness and they exploit it. It blows having to wait in the right lane for half the world to blow around you, and wait until there's nothing left behind or next to you but a tumble weed, before you are "allowed" to move because you're car is so slow it poses a hazardous obstacle to other vehicles.

I like having more passing power in 6th gear at 85 than everyone else does in 1st. I like being able to change lanes without causing people to have to brake for me and pissing them off in the process. And I also use that power often without killing myself or getting in trouble. I don't care for 100+, I'm perfectly content doing 0 to speed limit before I cross the intersection and cruising down the highway at 1500 RPM with the windows down.

Being completely immune to other driver's petty machismo posturing bullshit and being able to just relax and drive and mind your own business is a whole 'nother driving experience. In a world where the avg aggressive cocky teen with a backward baseball cap in mom's mini van is pushing 300 HP, driving a 90 HP car is stressful and infuriating. Driving a 600+ HP car is tranquil and stress free. It's really something you need to experience before commenting. There is nothing quite like a third gear pull on an on ramp and then effortlessly coasting through the merge and the next half mile and still keeping up with or passing traffic. Contrast with redlining your Corolla and still getting blown out of your lane by the SUVs and semis blowing by you at twice your speed as you hit the top of the on ramp hoping someone will turn their cruise control off and let you merge.

It's also fun to warp people's sense of reality when they are smirking at you at the light and chirp their tires "at" you. There is no harm in a little 0-40 yank. And 0-100 in the blink of an eye and then slowing down and it being over with before you've even covered a block is a whole lot safer than being at 80, 90, 100+ for 30 seconds at a time over a mile plus and flying past side streets because it takes you that long to get there. Most all the high speed wrecks I've seen are slow commuter cars because they stay in it and stay in it and stay in it and cover great distances durring their acceleration and a expose themselves to a huge window of opportunity for disaster because their car is slow, not because it's fast. Also they are more likely to act desperate and take risks, swerve and weave between traffic to maintain that speed once they get there, because they know it took them forever to accelerate in the first place. Slowing down and having their pants down having to repeat the slow process of accelerating again is the last thing they want to do. Again more room for error. With more power, you're more relaxed and don't care if you have to play it safe and slow down for a moment because with a flick of your right toe you're there again without any drama or suspense.

These are the many reasons I have a fast bike with plenty of mid range power. I like being able to essentially ignore traffic and just be about my business.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

I think manufacturers offer this in the UK, and Australia too.

Yup, many dealers in the UK offer 33 BHP kits for bikes - such as the SV650 (and other 600s) for free. On the SV it's basically a second ECU you get that limits the bike (you can also get mechanical restrictors).

You can then get the dealer to swap the original in when you want full power (although the dealer did say that you could do it yourself as it was quite easy).

The reason is that if you are under 21 you are limited to 33 BHP for two years after your test (for your own safety of course :\).

 

[exdeath]

Did you assume your stance of dominance while writing that? Cause it's all macho bullshit. You own a muscle car because when you're behind the wheel you feel like the alpha male. Everything you said is justification for doing something that's foolish waste of money.
For the record, I like muscle cars, and get a chubby driving them, but lets be honest about the reasons why.

No. I don't bully people just because I can. That's the difference between myself and the people I've described. I'm perfectly content holding my place in line, and getting over in advance without abusing my power and pushing and shoving. You have to clearly be posturing, instigating, and driving like a dick to earn my attention, I'm not the one out there acting like a badass towards anybody with a lesser vehicle. I refuse to become everything I despise.

But Im sure as hell not going to tolerate unsolicited aggression from those who do.

 

[Throckmorton]

Actually, most people do start small children out on tricycles before then moving them to bikes with training wheels and without training wheels and then the kid's first 10-speed.

Regardless, the analogy doesn't stand. Starting out on a 600 is like giving your 6-year old a Kestrel RT 1000 with clipless pedals and saying "good luck". Additionally, the power difference between a 600 and a 250 means that a novice mistake with throttle control is far more dangerous. With bikes, the amount of power is always the same (you). Finally, the consequences of a mistake on a bicycle are a skinned knee, on a motorcycle, there's a little bit more to worry about.

ZV

But the whole point I made was that it would make sense to be able to detune a more powerful engine, so the power difference doesn't apply.


Is the weight difference between bikes really such a big part of why you're supposed to start on a bike with a small engine?

 

[Throckmorton]

double post

 

[MiataNC]

But the whole point I made was that it would make sense to be able to detune a more powerful engine, so the power difference doesn't apply.


Is the weight difference between bikes really such a big part of why you're supposed to start on a bike with a small engine?

The weight difference isn't really that much. It is easier to handle a lighter bike at parking lot speeds, but with skill and practice you can turn just as slow and tight on 800lbs+ monsters.

In the 60-70s the average bike was well under 500cc, and they shared the road with fire breathing muscle cars. The 250s sold today can out accelerate most vehicles on the road.

Bigger bikes are an ego purchase. I ride a 1050cc Triumph because I want to, not because it is safer or better suited to legal speed limits than a Ninja 250.

 

[LTC8K6]

I suppose they could have a MyKey or valet key type of system on a motorcycle. One key is half power, the other is warp drive.