Mothers send sons to Somalia to avoid knife crime

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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
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I'm not biting on the analogy but I looked at the Mayor who said there is no reason, ever, to carry a knife and people will be harshly punished. That's a Trumpian lie. If I'm carrying my Paramilitary 2 (run, scary name!) and am imprisoned for the peaceful possession of a tool laws notwithstanding, I have been done a wrong for no good reason. Why? Because if my intent is to do harm I go to a Big Box store, get a piece of metal and grind it, or use hard plastic, or... a hundred things including concrete. And to protect the British, the powers in charge who do have protection, enact laws that make them look like thugs all because the people there are conditioned to fear as much as many here in the US.

As you may note I am not a fan of what the British lords and ladies, elected or not, have done to amass power and control.

Ooh Paramilitary! What kinda of pussy name is that?

If I’m looking for a smaller knife I’m taking out the “Microtech Death on Contact Killswitch”

Something a little larger maybe the “Bastinelli Assuacalypse” or if I need a fixed blade the “Buck/Hood Thug”.

https://blog.knife-depot.com/worst-knife-names/

Although I don’t like the “Vulture Cholera”. Found it to be a shitty knife.
GHnapSz.gif
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
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Thank you to the forefathers for being sure to encode the 2A in the Bill of Rights to keep it safe from scared little men like yourself. Firearms homicides isn't a too-many-rights issue, it is a failed liberal societal issue.

Because the wild west was known for its mass of guns and little to no gun violence / deaths.
No filthy liberals stinking up society back then! #MAGA #Deadwood
 

Luna1968

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2019
1,202
680
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ooooo brit cops taking a buck knife off somebody and making a FB post of HEY LOOK AT US WE TOOK A DANGEROUS WEAPON OFF THE STREETS AND THREW A GUY IN JAIL" absolutely pathetic that their country has been reduced to boogy man scare tactics.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...nd-sons-abroad-to-protect-against-knife-crime

British teenagers are being sent by their parents to Somalia, itself recovering from a series of terror attacks, because of concern that the police cannot protect them from knife crime.

Representatives from north London’s Somali community say hundreds of children have been flown to Somalia, Somaliland and Kenya because of rising concerns over drug gangs and county lines, the criminal networks that use children to transport drugs from cities to the provinces.

..
The revelations follow a week of heated debate over the causes of and potential solutions to Britain’s knife crime epidemic. Seventeen people have died after attacks in London alone since the start of 2019. On Saturday, there were reports that three people were in hospital after an attack at a nightclub in Birmingham, a city reeling from three knife fatalities within days last month. And a 15-year-old boy was charged with murder after the stabbing of 17-year-old Ayub Hassan, in west London, on Thursday afternoon.




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I can’t fathom sending kids to Somalia would be better off than London, even it’s worse parts. I can’t help but laugh though that knife violence is a big concern across the UK. Shows that if we take guns away there will still be violence, there will always be violence. And as the violence continues so does the police state. Would taking knives away solve the issue these Somali moms are worried about or just morph it into something else. Our fear is an opening for the government to creep into our lives, don’t let that happen.

When knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have knives!
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
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Because the wild west was known for its mass of guns and little to no gun violence / deaths.
No filthy liberals stinking up society back then! #MAGA #Deadwood
Guns allowed individuals to succeed in a lawless frontier society.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
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In America, outside of large Democrat cities our homicide rates fall much closer inline with those countries you speak of despite there being guns everywhere and often many more "gun nutters" that have several or even many guns.
So please explain Alaska. Homocide rate there is 8.4 per 100k people.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
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But guns are still throughout the low crime areas just the same. And yet they aren't being used to kill people at a rate that different than people are murdered in other westernized countries that do not allow for guns. So your argument doesn't hold water. If you said Democrat cities can't handle guns, that might have some truth to it, but to blame our homicides on guns is to look at things in a vacuum and dismiss every other bit of data no matter how relevant. You do this quite often, though.

Correlation does not mean causation. It is not about looking at data. It is about how you look at the data. Here's a math example:

2 * 5 * 20 = 200
1.5 * 4 * 50 = 300

Why is it that the second equation yields a higher number than the first? 2 is > 1.5 and 5 is > than 4! Because there's a 3rd factor that bears more weight than the first 2.

In the case of gun violence per capita, it might be actually that there is lower risk from fewer guns (term 1) and lower risk in Democrat predominant areas (term 2) yet higher risk with population density (term 3) unrelated to the first 2 terms.

Or it might be something completely different. Who knows? You have to actually apply some statistical methods to a data set to start to understand things. In this case, you have asserted some data although I'm not sure I believe it as stated. But you haven't applied any methods of examining the data in drawing your conclusions.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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So please explain Alaska. Homocide rate there is 8.4 per 100k people.

You found an outlier. There are plenty of states that have lower than the global average murders, and are on par with westernized nations that have strict gun control laws, too. Some you don't even need a permit to carry a gun in public. But when you factor in Democratic urban cities... watch out.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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The Somalia angle is wonderfully silly, but I do wonder if there is something new happening. Not sure, but London is a city of transience and churn these days. I blame capitalism.

All fixed, fast frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned ...

Oh, when it comes to street crime, I also like -

Since the finance aristocracy made the laws, was at the head of the administration of the state, had command of all the organized public authorities, dominated public opinion through the actual state of affairs and through the press, the same prostitution, the same shameless cheating, the same mania to get rich was repeated in every sphere, from the court to the Café Borgne to get rich not by production, but by pocketing the already available wealth of others, Clashing every moment with the bourgeois laws themselves, an unbridled assertion of unhealthy and dissolute appetites manifested itself, particularly at the top of bourgeois society – lusts wherein wealth derived from gambling naturally seeks its satisfaction, where pleasure becomes crapuleux , where money, filth, and blood commingle. The finance aristocracy, in its mode of acquisition as well as in its pleasures, is nothing but the rebirth of the lumpen proletariat on the heights of bourgeois society.

Though that's really just a long-winded way of saying the fish rots from the head, I guess.
 
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Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
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Dang!

I never looked at the numbers till I read through this thread.

I was surprised that from 2009-2013 more people were killed "Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.)" (2,624) than with rifles (1,633) or shotguns (1,769).
And more were killed with "Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)" (3,731) than with rifles and shotguns combined (3,402)!
Knives or cutting instruments accounted for 8,378.

.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
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You found an outlier. There are plenty of states that have lower than the global average murders, and are on par with westernized nations that have strict gun control laws, too. Some you don't even need a permit to carry a gun in public. But when you factor in Democratic urban cities... watch out.

There are tons of examples of westernized nations restricting access to guns and lowering their murder rates. The whole thread was started as using an outlier to invalidate the obvious evidence.

Valid complaint you've made albeit an ironic one.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
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Dang!

I never looked at the numbers till I read through this thread.

I was surprised that from 2009-2013 more people were killed "Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.)" (2,624) than with rifles (1,633) or shotguns (1,769).
And more were killed with "Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)" (3,731) than with rifles and shotguns combined (3,402)!
Knives or cutting instruments accounted for 8,378.

.


I thought handguns were the main killer? And do those figures include suicides? I'd imagine you'd have to be quite inventive to do yourself in with a hammer. Though I do remember reading of a case where someone killed himself by means of a quite inventive-sounding home-built guillotine.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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I thought handguns were the main killer? And do those figures include suicides? I'd imagine you'd have to be quite inventive to do yourself in with a hammer. Though I do remember reading of a case where someone killed himself by means of a quite inventive-sounding home-built guillotine.


Those numbers must contain suicides. Homicides by rifles and shotguns are somewhere around ~350 each per year (far less than blunt objects or knives). Yet liberals think AR15's are some prime evil.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
8,522
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I am familiar with the principles. The argument about your weapon is limited range and is not a repeater. The reliable range of that weapon is likely less than a ground down lawnmower blade with the information found on youtube. The Brits can, of course, monitor your communications with the Snooper's Charter so they need to be very careful what they say, see and do.

PS I had a relative who was a gun and bladesmith and he taught me a few things during summer breaks. I could be a potential nightmare in the UK. Imagine someone who can forge a blade. I'm a potential terrorist threat.

Maybe I should be using Tor and VPN?


Don't flatter yourself. The crime is carrying an offensive weapon, and they have to find it on you and to establish you had no innocent reason for having it, whatever it is. I found a screwdriver in the street a while back, picked it up because one can never have too many screwdrivers, but when I went to use it I realised it had been sharpened (making it less than ideal for its intended purpose).

Personally I don't agree with the barrage of demands for the police to stop-and-search people more. It's just a receipe for alienating communities, and to me it seems like lazy policing. Though it sometimes seems as if every white person in the country thinks doing that is 'common sense' (while as far as I can make out, 90% of black people appear to be entirely against it, for obvious reasons. Though I wonder if it's the same with recent arrivals from Africa vs long-standing afro-carribbean community?)
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Some other numbers to consider when looking at firearms deaths, for perspective:

Number of people killed by tobacco: ~480,000 (~42,000 innocents due to second hand smoke, almost four innocent people for every gun homicide). Alcohol: ~88,000 (16000 drunk driving deaths). Guns: ~12000 homicides / ~26000 suicides Knives: ~1600

Some stats: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls


Still pushing that passive-smoking nonsense, eh?

And I like the little bonus lie you get in there, blaming alcohol for deaths where the car was the lethal element. You left out the one category I'd have had some sympathy for including.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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Still pushing that passive-smoking nonsense, eh?

And I like the little bonus lie you get in there, blaming alcohol for deaths where the car was the lethal element. You left out the one category I'd have had some sympathy for including.


An innocent person killed is an innocent person killed. And the FACT of it is that many more are killed due to smoking than guns. It doesn't matter if we're looking at self harm, harm to third parties, or a combined look. Not sure what you're getting at with alcohol, I called out the drunk driving deaths, that vast majority of alcohol deaths have nothing to do with a car, however.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,636
8,522
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An innocent person killed is an innocent person killed. And the FACT of it is that many more are killed due to smoking than guns. It doesn't matter if we're looking at self harm, harm to third parties, or a combined look. Not sure what you're getting at with alcohol, I called out the drunk driving deaths, that vast majority of alcohol deaths have nothing to do with a car, however.

And the vast majority of car deaths have nothing to do with alcohol.

And you clearly don't even read your own posts so don't know what just typed. Go back and read it and see what 'category' you put drunk driving deaths under (clue: it wasn't 'cars').

The US has problems with sufficiently regulating car-use, as much as guns. Cars certainly can be lethal weapons, as terrorists have started to realise. I've yet to hear of an Islamist terrorist attempting to cause mayhem by lighting up a cigarette in a crowded area.

Your 'FACT' is not really a 'FACT', or even a lower case 'fact', because, as you keep consistently ignoring, it neglects the question of 'years lost'. Everyone dies one day, the question is not whether you die, but how much earlier you do than you otherwise would have. You also keep ignoring the fact that the 'passive smoking death' data is far less robust than the gun death data.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
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Those numbers must contain suicides. Homicides by rifles and shotguns are somewhere around ~350 each per year (far less than blunt objects or knives). Yet liberals think AR15's are some prime evil.

conservatism is the the only true universal evil.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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Don't flatter yourself.

I don't and more is the pity for the Brits. The concept of "weapon" is effectively so broad that anything which could possibly harm someone can be made to fit the description and while it is the UK, no one who objects to excessive police invasiveness or fear as a basis for manipulation, like the Wall here and many other things, should find this acceptable. Inapplicable, yes, but morally there is no more defense than for stop and frisk in NYC.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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conservatism is the the only true universal evil.


I"d disagree. It is a great source of evil, but it is not the beginning and end. There are many universal ills that transcend political ideology.

BTW, I'd love an AR as they're a lot of fun, but having almost any means of self defense in NY is impossible or outrageously and intentionally comprised of red tape. I'm not even sure I can have an AR these days. My daughter who has to work in less than good areas at night is completely at the mercy of anyone with ill intent.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
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And the vast majority of car deaths have nothing to do with alcohol.

And you clearly don't even read your own posts so don't know what just typed. Go back and read it and see what 'category' you put drunk driving deaths under (clue: it wasn't 'cars').

The US has problems with sufficiently regulating car-use, as much as guns. Cars certainly can be lethal weapons, as terrorists have started to realise. I've yet to hear of an Islamist terrorist attempting to cause mayhem by lighting up a cigarette in a crowded area.

Your 'FACT' is not really a 'FACT', or even a lower case 'fact', because, as you keep consistently ignoring, it neglects the question of 'years lost'. Everyone dies one day, the question is not whether you die, but how much earlier you do than you otherwise would have. You also keep ignoring the fact that the 'passive smoking death' data is far less robust than the gun death data.


Where are you going with this? The point is to compare deaths by other things to guns. If you remove drunk driving (alcohol being the major factor) all together, you are still left with a much larger number of people being killed by alcohol. If you want to blame the car and not alcohol for drunk driving, I don't know what to tell you. There are reasons why alcohol-related drunk driving deaths are handled differently that an accident without alcohol. Just like a gun can contribute to a death, so can alcohol, only alcohol leaves far more bodies in the ground than guns, and no one cares.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,545
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The family thinks the kids will be safer in Somalia. People do stupid shit. Who really gives a fuck..
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
Those numbers must contain suicides. Homicides by rifles and shotguns are somewhere around ~350 each per year (far less than blunt objects or knives). Yet liberals think AR15's are some prime evil.

AR15s are associated with just about every mass shooting. We could get into potential reasons why and if limiting their access would have an effect, but I highlight this because clearly they are important to understand regardless of absolute numbers.