Motherboard issue or something else?

[geekfather]

Motherboard MSI K9N SLI V2 running Twin 7600GT MSI video cards -
4 gb PC6400 ram
AMD 2.6 X2 chip
2 - NEC dvd reader/writers.
2 250 gb Samsung Hd's


Approx 5 weeks ago Windows Vista 64 bit crashed when my son was using the computer. Even to the point where safe mode would not start up. Inserting my Vista 64 DVD the computer would not respond with the "Boot from CD " message and went to the windows boot options. At this time I assumed there was a hardware conflict. So from here I did the following:

Having the 2 DVD readers I placed one at a time in the system so only one would be present with no results. Installed a good known Dvd unit from another machine and same results.

Tried different cables to DVD's - no change

Removed memory 1 stick at a time with same results.

An interesting point to make is that the CD version of Windows XP would read just fine. Also if I boot into my hard drive with 32bit Vista I can play DVD's no problem. 32bit or 64bit DVD's have the same issue.

At this point I consulted with a computer guru friend who thought the driver chip on the motherboard was defective. Consulted MSI online tech support and they thought the motherboard was defective. I shipped the board to them under warranty and 2 weeks later received the board back (Was the same board I shipped to them) and still had same issue. Calling their tech support I was able to talk to a tech who stated that they dont get the information I typr in on the online form. So they sent me a drop ship label and I sent it back and again 3 weeks later (same board I sent them) hook it all up and same issue.

At this point I am a bit frustrated in the fact that either MSI did nothing or missed the issue OR what else is left for me to check?


If the current DVD's units play DVDs okay then isnt that a good proof that they are working properly?

What else am I missing here? Also I built this system myself and it has worked flawlessly for 7 months until the issue started. I am really really trying to avoid replacing the motherboard with a different model in order to get my main system (with all my wifes files needed) up and running faster.

Thank you for the look over and appreciate the information.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I am sketchy on the details, so I have questions:

Are you able to access the Vista 64 install i.e. get to the desktop?

Do you have Vista 32 on one 250gb HDD, and Vista 64 on the other?

 

[geekfather]

Sorry for the confusion.

The system will not recognize my Windows Vista 32 or 64 bit install dvd's. The system however will recognize a Windows install CD.


I was running Vista 32 bit and when I went to 64bit I used a new hard drive. I tried booting into the 32bit Vista just to see if the DVD players would recognize the install dvd while in windows. If I stick my 32bit Vista harddrive into the system and boot into Windows (32bit runs fine and Windows is not damaged) I can play DVD's and if I install the Windows 32 or 64 bit install dvd's windows recognizes thn just fine.

The issue is only on a boot from DVD (just like loading a system from scratch).

I hope this clears up the questions?

And again thank you for the reply

 

[DAPUNISHER]

No worries

It sounds like it could just be a simple BIOS setting issue. The drive the Vista DVD is in may not be set as a boot device, check that out, and set it as the 1st in the boot order, for now. Hope this helps, and post back what you find.

EDIT: I just re-read your post and see a windows CD is detected, so the boot order isn't the issue.

EDIT 2: I am a bit slow sometimes, it just occurred to me that it read the DVD fine before the crash. I'll look around and see what I can dig up.

 

[geekfather]

Let me ask you this real fast then.

The DVD units I have are IDE.

If I was to go pick up a SATA DVD unit will this still use th same chip on the motherboard when it comes to dvd operation?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'm not certain what you mean when you say DVD operation, but I do think the southbridge handles the i/o for both PATA and SATA with that chipset. The fact that it boots from CD is what makes it so strange. The drive is bootable and obviously it booted the Vista DVD before the crash. I would think MSI tested the board for the issue you submitted too.

I'm not certain what the problem could be at this point, I would guess corrupted bios or a physically defective board, but that would mean MSI completely drop the ball twice on you. You could try flashing the bios and see if it cures it, I suppose. Worst case scenario you just have to RMA yet again.

At this point, I'd just get a different board and RMA that one, yet again. I'd be very specific about the problem, make certain the support person understands it, since English may not be their first language, and try to get them to send you a different board if they have one.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I had the strangest experience once with a machine with a Dell P3 mobo in it.
I was attempting to re-install XP onto it (it had XP, but needed to be re-installed), and my CD copy of XP (A dell OEM version) wouldn't boot. Yet, a WinME OEM CD that came with the Dell would boot.
Had to install WinME first, then install XP on top of it. I think that's what finally did it.

I think that before the boot CD says to press any key to boot the CD, it scans the bootsector(s) of the HD(s) first. I think that there is some mistaken logic in there, that if it sometimes doesn't recognize what it finds, then it acts strangely.

Btw, a system crash can corrupt the bootsector, too.

I would download the mfg's diagnostic disc for your HD, and run a "write zeros" operation over the whole drive, and then try the Vista boot DVD again, and see what happens.

 

[akaaka]

This is most likely an I/O conflict, not a fried board problem.

This response is really long-winded, so I want to apologize upfront. And it could be way, way off base. Causes are still unclear. There are, though, several more possibilities.

It might not hurt to read the fine print about your MoBo when troubleshooting these issues. The constraints vary widely from model to model.
http://www.msicomputer.com/pro...K9N_SLI-F_V.2&class=mb

1) Total, how many of your drives (HDDs + DVDs) are IDE drives on your rig?

Even some SATA-connector devices are actually running over IDE, especially DVD drives, which don't feel the need for speed.

I'm reading this: "An IDE controller on the nVIDIA nForce 570 LT SLI chipset ... can connect up to 2 IDE devices."

IDE controllers generally handle devices in pairs, since that's the maximum capacity of any PATA connection that IDE was designed to use. It may be that your I/O controller had to handle too many IDE devices, and fused them into the same channel. (How? Dunno. But if it's just emulating IDE, it might slip up and act like it's handling SATA workloads, which allow for more devices per channel.) Now whatever HDD you're booting Vista from is written into the I/O controller's EPROM as a different device (so it looks to the I/O controller like a DVD drive, not an HDD), or something along those lines.
MSI didn't have your drives on hand, so they wouldn't bother to check.

I've seen the problem, but I haven't seen the solution. If you can flash some firmware related to the I/O controller hub, you might be in luck overwriting any EEPROM settings, but it's not clear that just reinstalling I/O drivers would do so, as I would suspect MoBos try to keep the I/O channel info stable to stay in constant contact with the I/O devices during a driver update.

I'm really getting ahead of things, but I'm saying this as a "what-if scenario" for future readers of this thread. You may be able to read the device's I/O settings by running something like Everest Ultimate (trial version). Connect your Vista x64 HDD to the machine (non-booted 'slave' mode), preferably through the same slot that it fried itself in (or at least recall which that was). Install Everest on the HDD you boot into, and then take the hardware settings readings. If things don't square, like the slot Vista's in shows up as a being taken up by a DVD drive, that may be a sign that this happened.

2) You have some kind of flash-cache NAND on board -- like Intel Turbo Memory. That makes problem #1 much more likely to happen, for reasons I can't explain at this point in my research, but which probably have to do with NAND formatting as FAT, and then running over IDE.

3) Vista x64 might have been installed when your BIOS was set to SATA Compatibility Mode (IDE emulation) in BIOS, and your rig is now in SATA AHCI mode in BIOS. I'm reading this:

"The mainboard BIOS provides 'Plug & Play' BIOS which detects the peripheral devices and expansion cards of the board automatically. "

Again, hypothetically, the SATA setting in BIOS may have been switched to IDE Compatibility Mode at some point, and then when your son was at the controls, Windows needed to use a SATA device on the fly, BIOS switched back, and derailed Vista. I don't know if the MSI BIOS is capable of switching to AHCI on you, but if it is, MSI isn't going to be very forthcoming about it, because it's been admitted by Microsoft as of a year now, that this kills Vista.

Why would it kill Vista? Vista disables AHCI drivers to run in IDE mode, and the only way to reenable them is to edit the registry hive and change one value, which tells Vista to load the AHCI drivers. If you find you're in AHCI mode in BIOS, read through KB922976, and work out a way to mount the Vista x64 registry hive to make the change. OR, you can also put the AHCI SATA drivers (Msahci) on a USB floppy as you're booting into x64. (You might even try burning them to an ISO if you don't have a floppy around -- but that will probably confuse the OS, since the DVD drive that's loading them may itself be IDE. Floppy is better. USB might also work. This is getting totally beyond my ken.)

So, at least go into BIOS, and see if your rig is in AHCI mode. If it is, flip it back to Compatibility, and see if Vista boots. But if that works, then make sure you square away what SATA devices would trigger the switch to AHCI, and fix your rig so you're not hybridizing the interface modes -- go all SATA, as I think you suggested. And do the reg edit to Vista JUST BEFORE you reboot and change the BIOS setting to AHCI!

If you find that even in Compatibility Mode, Vista won't boot, then it's not 2), but could be 1), or just about anything else you can imagine.

...

- On the DVDs not booting -- in BIOS, check on this: Are these drives actually in your "boot priority" list? If they aren't, or they're too far down in boot priority, your rig won't let you boot from them. Also, if it's 1), then BIOS could even be trying to hand the boot off to another device that's "fused", so it's assuming that the boot is already happening.

...

I'm dense right now, but if you could restate things, that might help too:

- What's a "Vista installation DVD" versus a "Windows installation DVD"?

- Do all of your DVD players work right now? I'm reading this: "The system will not recognize my Windows Vista 32 or 64 bit install dvd's. The system however will recognize a Windows install CD." If you have a dead DVD drive right now, it might be because the IDE controller fused it with something else.

- What did you refer to when you wrote "the same issue" here: "if I boot into my hard drive with 32bit Vista I can play DVD's no problem. 32bit or 64bit DVD's have the same issue."


Hope this gives you some more leverage!

akaaka