Motherboard CPU incompatibility question

[unholy414]

I?m going to buy the MSI K9MM-V motherboard and an AMD Athlon X2 6400+ CPU, but according to MSI?s CPU compatibility list for the K9MM-V motherboard, the X2 6400+ is said to not be compatible with this motherboard. I?ve read reports of people successfully using this combo, such as a a person named Adarryl on Newegg, who mentioned using the CPU successfully in a review of the MSI k9MM-V motherboard (near the bottom of the page), as well as online stores even selling the mobo and CPU as a combo deal, and also online stores comboing the also incompatible (lesser) X2 6000+, as well as users reporting success with it, such as Voidtek1969, a reviewer on Newegg (middle of the page). He also posted about it on Anandtech, too.

Obviously I've been doing a ton of research in efforts to make sure my purchase will not screw me over. My question is how are these processors working with this motherboard when MSI claims they're incompatible? Is it because they just haven't tested the processors thoroughly yet? If I were to do the MSI K9MM-V / X2 6400+ combination, what problems should I expect (if any)?

Not going PCI-Express.
The AGP bus isn't being used to its full potential, upgrade is not warranted yet.
Next system will be PCI-Express.
AGP FTW.

 

[Mondoman]

Even though you feel it's not time to upgrade from AGP, the VIA chipset on this MB (and most current AGP MBs AFAIK) is a big *downgrade* from Intel and nVidia chipsets and will likely cause you more problems and hassles than you would have in upgrading to PCIexpress on a motherboard with a decent chipset.
As for the CPU incompatibility issue, if you look at the table, you'll note that the incompatible CPUs are the 95w and 125w CPUs. This tells me that the nature of the incompatibility is that the MB's CPU power circuitry is not robust enough to reliably supply that much power to the CPU (note that this is a MB issue and has nothing to do with the power supply). Since the MB is designed for the low end with cheap components, it's not surprising that it can't handle the highest-power CPUs.

A MUCH higher-quality, and faster-performing, CPU+MB package is:
1) GA-P35-DS3L MB ($90-100)
2) e2160 CPU (boxed retail, $80)
Just set the FSB to 1333MHz and your e2160 (with a real high-performance core2duo core design) will be running at 3GHz without problems on the included stock Intel CPU cooler.

If you need RAM and a video card, $30 gets you 2GB of good RAM, and a 73xx series video card will run $25, while an 84xx series card will run $50.

 

[unholy414]

Taking into consideration that there's online vendors selling the MSI K9MM-V mobo and the X2 6400+ CPU combo, wouldn't that be a pretty good indication that they run ok together, as well as users reporting success?

As for the CPU's thermal design power (X2 6400+ TDP = 125 watts), this is what AMD defines TDP in regards to their processors:

TDP, as defined by AMD, is measured at the maximum current the CPU can draw, at the default voltage, under the worst-case temperature conditions. This is the maximum power that the CPU can possibly dissipate. {1}

The Thermal Design Power (TDP) (sometimes called Thermal Design Point) represents the maximum amount of power the cooling system in a computer is required to dissipate.{2}

So it appears that thermal power is just heat output, which is in correlation to a hardware device's (in this case, the CPU) voltage requirements. I'll admit that I'm no electrician, so if I misunderstood, I'd like to be corrected.


I expect that my system will be able to run all of the latest games (save Crysis) very well.
My system specifications will be as follows:

AMD Athlon X2 6400+ / ZALMAN 9500A HSF with Arctic Silver 5
MSI K9MM-V motherboard
2GB DDR2 800 Kingston HyperX memory
HIS ATI X1950PRO ICEQ3 Turbo 512MB
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS gamer
74GB Western Digital Raptor
PC Power and Cooling T51X-ASL power supply


Old specs:

AMD Athlon XP 2700+ / Vantec Aeroflow HSF with Arctic Silver 5
Asus A7V8X motherboard
1GB DDR 370 Kingston HyperX memory
HIS ATI X1950PRO ICEQ3 Turbo 512MB
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS gamer
74GB Western Digital Raptor
PC Power and Cooling T51X-ASL power supply

Basically I'm upgrading the CPU, motherboard, and memory. My video card is good enough to justify an AGP-system upgrade, with very positive results.

 

[Mondoman]

Originally posted by: unholy414
Taking into consideration that there's online vendors selling the MSI K9MM-V mobo and the X2 6400+ CPU combo, wouldn't that be a pretty good indication that they run ok together, as well as users reporting success?

There have been plenty of instances in the past of vendors selling combos that weren't fully compatible. TigerDirect is a bit notorious for this. MSI specifically said that the MB can't handle that CPU; why would they say that if it were not true? After all, they presumably want to sell motherboards...

As for the CPU's thermal design power (X2 6400+ TDP = 125 watts)..

There wasn't much info in the table in your link; however, TDP should be proportional to the max power used by the CPU (after all, the heat is generated from the input power) and so provides a rough guide to the max power draw of a CPU. I find it telling that only the CPUs with the highest max power draw in the table are the ones that MSI says won't work with the board, especially as one of the ways that manufacturers save money on low-end boards is to design in less-robust CPU power sections. For example, this is common on lower-end LGA775 boards.

If this is correct, the board would still boot with the CPU and work fine *until* it was run under a high CPU load. At that point, either the system wouldn't work quite correctly (intermittent errors) or, more likely, after some time running above its designed load the MB's power regulation circuitry would be damaged and the MB wouldn't work properly.

Since it seems you specifically want to max out a high-power CPU (otherwise, why not buy one of the lower-power supported CPUs?), there's a good chance you will be affected by this issue.

So it appears that thermal power is just heat output

exactly

, which is in correlation to a hardware device's (in this case, the CPU) voltage requirements.

not exactly: it's proportional to the power (not voltage) going in

Good luck with your new system whichever route you decide to take!

 

[unholy414]

I really appreciate your help, Mondoman. It makes sense that the CPU would infact stress the motherboard. I may just settle with the X2 5600+ instead and save myself some potential headaches, the difference between the two can't be that big.

When I do a complete overhaul of my system, perhaps I'll stress-test the mobo with a X2 6400+ (they're reasonably cheap), but until then, I'll just let common sense be my guide....unless if you know of a better AGP motherboard than the MSI K9MM-V, I've searched high and low.

 

[happy medium]

If your upgrading you ram, cpu, and motherboard there is NO reason not to to go the Intel route and sell your 1950pro 512mb for 150$ or so on ebay (easy) and buy a 3850 pci-e. It won't cost you an extra dollar and will be fully upgradable and highly overclockable. As for your psu? If it can run a 1950pro and x2 cpu it will run a core 2 and a 3850.
This setup will be 35% faster at least for the same price. You will not regret it!

 

[unholy414]

Originally posted by: happy medium
If your upgrading you ram, cpu, and motherboard there is NO reason not to to go the Intel route and sell your 1950pro 512mb for 150$ or so on ebay (easy) and buy a 3850 pci-e. It won't cost you an extra dollar and will be fully upgradable and highly overclockable. As for your psu? If it can run a 1950pro and x2 cpu it will run a core 2 and a 3850.
This setup will be 35% faster at least for the same price. You will not regret it!

I probably can build a PCI-Express system for about the same I'm spending on AGP-related upgrades. I've considered this, but I would really want to build a high-end system with high-end parts, basically a go big or go home mentality. My upgrade ($370) serves two purposes; a temporary band-aid, and to carry my system into the modern gaming era that will allow me to hang onto, and utilize my currently bottlenecked, x1950pro. I estimate that i'll be able to run games reasonably well until 2009 (upgrade time).

I wish I knew how well my games would run (BF2, TF2, CoD4, etc...), but I'm positive that it'll be a far cry better than my current setup, which is borderline omfgfistthroughwalllowfps.

 

[happy medium]

The 3850 agp (60% more performance) is comming in mid Feb. which is a perfect match for you new overclocked cpu.

 

[unholy414]

Originally posted by: happy medium
The 3850 agp (60% more performance) is comming in mid Feb. which is a perfect match for you new overclocked cpu.

You guessed right, the X2 5600+ will be OCed.

Ahh, the 3850, I too read that it was coming in AGP. Whether or not I'll get one (they're extremely well priced, $200'ish) will depend on whether or not my new setup will run games to my liking. My typical ingame-res will be 1280 x 1024, so I'm confident that things will be okay in terms of performance.