- Dec 5, 2000
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GW2 is probably one of the most popular at the moment and still growing, i just started a few months ago and its the perfect time to get in on it there is the perfect blend of vets and newbs right now..
However looking over that list it seems like the above poster is right and you may just not like games, it might be time for another hobby.
However looking over that list it seems like the above poster is right and you may just not like games, it might be time for another hobby.
Actually that's what I thought when I read your thread.
Maybe ask yourself why you enjoy gaming and find a game that fills that need/desire.
I mentioned DCO because it's not your typical bullshit superhero game. It's gritty and fun. You just go around killing stuff in a well done game environment. Xbox contoller support, F2P and the combat is very fun with the combos.
Anyway you asked for ideas and we gave em. Later
I am in the same boat, i have tried most just can't find anything i really want to get into.
Wish i could find something that gives me that EQ feeling of playing the first time and just wanting to explore.
Wish i could find something that gives me that EQ feeling of playing the first time and just wanting to explore.
Dragon Nest has been out for around 1.5 years now.
The first 15 levels can be slightly boring as you get used to the battle system because the moves aren't anything awesome. When oyu change class at 15 you start to get some really awesome skills, and the lvl 32 skills are mostly insane.
The first 15 levels can be slightly boring as you get used to the battle system because the moves aren't anything awesome. When oyu change class at 15 you start to get some really awesome skills, and the lvl 32 skills are mostly insane.
I've at least tried most of your list. Slowly realized that I just dont enjoy MMO's for the most part. Currently having a blast playing Path of Exile. It's just barely MMO enough for me, lots of character customization. Relatively interesting items. But if you're a quester don't bother. The quests arent anything special.
I'm with you all. I've lost total interest in any mmo where I just stand there and smash number keys.
I've moved to more action mmo styles.
I've moved to more action mmo styles.
I really miss the days of EQ, AC and AC2. I don't think that model of MMO will ever return. I grow tired of small instances, instanced chat, etc. Give me world bosses, global chat, and full scale interaction once again!
GW2 did that for me, the artwork is amazing and the rewards for map completion are pretty good, ive spent hours in that game just exploring the map.
diesbudt
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2012
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AC was my first MMO.
It gave the feeling some of you are describing from EQ and such. However I bet that feeling of awe is a once in a lifetime feeling for MMO games. because you are exploring a whole new genre, massive worlds, many people playing at once, etc.
I mean, I cannot tell you how nostalgic I was for AC. So I re downloded it for the trail a few months back just to step in again. First 15min the kid in me was over excited to go back to the first MMO I played.
And hour or so into playing I then realized how shitty these old MMO models really were compared to all the ones I have played in the last few years.
Thus I do not thik any of you will ever get the feeling again no matter how good the MMO is. As this is all chartered territory for you all now with all the MMOs out there and people have played.
And World stuff is great, but instances will be used, especially since MMO overall population has greatly increased to reduce stress on servers from too many peoples computers running the same instance program. However, I wouldn't mind seeing AC's "instance" version again, where you enter a portal to said dungeon, and anyone can be in that instance with you. It is just seperate from the world.
diesbudt
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2012
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where you move and mash number keys
Hey
Just because all games require mashing of keys, does not mean you should point it out to people.
Ya i was like that at the start, got to almost max level and got bored when it first came out. I might give it another shot with a new class.
akugami
Diamond Member
- Feb 14, 2005
- 5,655
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I cut my teeth on text based games such as Tele-Arena and some MUDs.
It wasn't until Ultima Online that I believe MMO games really hit it with the public. Though primitive today, UO was awesome in that there were no levels and it was all skill based play. Another great aspect is that players had to compete for limited resources such as killing mobs and reagents for spells. People had to actually interact with each other.
Then I went to Everquest. Holy crap this game was fantastic for its time. A real time online 3D mass multi-player game. This game was buggy upon release with lots of issues but it had more positives than negatives. At the time, it felt like you could do anything. You felt like you were the character you were playing. And most importantly, much like UO, you had to interact with your fellow players. This game was HARD. You had to compete for kills. You had to group up and mesh the various class abilities to complete content. The sense of achievement for something as simple as completing a quest was incredible due to the difficulty of quests and the scarceness of mobs or items needed to complete the quests. One of the best aspects of this game is how different each class can be.
WoW...tried it a few times. Way too easy of a game in terms of difficulty. A lot of the quests/tasks are almost mindless time sinks that don't require any major difficulty. Didn't play it much.
EQ2, played in beta. Played about two months from official release. Most memorably moment? Fish can chase you onto land. Maybe it's gotten better, but I haven't tried it since. Classes seemed too homogenized.
Rift was fun at first. But the problem is leveling is too quick. There's almost no sense of difficulty much like WoW had no sense of difficulty. You can solo from 1-50. Some interesting dungeon design and bosses but the lack of difficulty (for the most part) made me grow bored quickly.
I've played a few other MMO's but only for a few days so not worth mentioning.
I'm actually waiting to see how EQ Next turns out. My main concerns is that it will not provide the things that made the original EQ good or at least memorable.
1. Classes will never be balanced. One major fault with EQ1 was they tried to "balance" every class. This doesn't work. Classes need to be unique. Even if it means that certain ones are more powerful. The goal should be every class should be fun in it's own way. Each class should also have a worth. A situation where in both group and raid content where people are glad to have you around.
2. Keep the carrot just out of my reach. It seems that most quests/goals are too easy in MMO's nowadays. I don't know why this is, maybe they're following WoW's lead but most goals are so easy that there is little feeling of accomplishment. Keeping things difficult is not the same as putting in time sinks. For example, purchase the new shiny armor with 100 special tokens from the new expansion. The tokens can only be obtained by completing repetitive tasks or completing dungeons. That's just a crappy time sink. Make it difficult (but fun) to complete tasks. Make it skill based and not something mindless and time consuming.
3. Make me interact with other people. MMO stands for Mass Multi-player Online. Don't take the mass out of MMO. Make the game so that you will interact with other players. Even if it means fighting with other players. This ties in with #1 and #2 in that classes should have a certain dependance on other classes for grouping and raids. Soloing should be viable but very difficult. Too much instancing takes the fun out of a game long term. Make me have to compete with other groups for named mobs or some other limited resource.
It wasn't until Ultima Online that I believe MMO games really hit it with the public. Though primitive today, UO was awesome in that there were no levels and it was all skill based play. Another great aspect is that players had to compete for limited resources such as killing mobs and reagents for spells. People had to actually interact with each other.
Then I went to Everquest. Holy crap this game was fantastic for its time. A real time online 3D mass multi-player game. This game was buggy upon release with lots of issues but it had more positives than negatives. At the time, it felt like you could do anything. You felt like you were the character you were playing. And most importantly, much like UO, you had to interact with your fellow players. This game was HARD. You had to compete for kills. You had to group up and mesh the various class abilities to complete content. The sense of achievement for something as simple as completing a quest was incredible due to the difficulty of quests and the scarceness of mobs or items needed to complete the quests. One of the best aspects of this game is how different each class can be.
WoW...tried it a few times. Way too easy of a game in terms of difficulty. A lot of the quests/tasks are almost mindless time sinks that don't require any major difficulty. Didn't play it much.
EQ2, played in beta. Played about two months from official release. Most memorably moment? Fish can chase you onto land. Maybe it's gotten better, but I haven't tried it since. Classes seemed too homogenized.
Rift was fun at first. But the problem is leveling is too quick. There's almost no sense of difficulty much like WoW had no sense of difficulty. You can solo from 1-50. Some interesting dungeon design and bosses but the lack of difficulty (for the most part) made me grow bored quickly.
I've played a few other MMO's but only for a few days so not worth mentioning.
I'm actually waiting to see how EQ Next turns out. My main concerns is that it will not provide the things that made the original EQ good or at least memorable.
1. Classes will never be balanced. One major fault with EQ1 was they tried to "balance" every class. This doesn't work. Classes need to be unique. Even if it means that certain ones are more powerful. The goal should be every class should be fun in it's own way. Each class should also have a worth. A situation where in both group and raid content where people are glad to have you around.
2. Keep the carrot just out of my reach. It seems that most quests/goals are too easy in MMO's nowadays. I don't know why this is, maybe they're following WoW's lead but most goals are so easy that there is little feeling of accomplishment. Keeping things difficult is not the same as putting in time sinks. For example, purchase the new shiny armor with 100 special tokens from the new expansion. The tokens can only be obtained by completing repetitive tasks or completing dungeons. That's just a crappy time sink. Make it difficult (but fun) to complete tasks. Make it skill based and not something mindless and time consuming.
3. Make me interact with other people. MMO stands for Mass Multi-player Online. Don't take the mass out of MMO. Make the game so that you will interact with other players. Even if it means fighting with other players. This ties in with #1 and #2 in that classes should have a certain dependance on other classes for grouping and raids. Soloing should be viable but very difficult. Too much instancing takes the fun out of a game long term. Make me have to compete with other groups for named mobs or some other limited resource.
diesbudt
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2012
- 3,393
- 0
- 0
Except, leveling is not suppossed to be challenging. That is the "easy part/story part of MMOs" in this generation. There is PLENTY of challenges in WoW and similar MMOs now. 5 man Challenge mode dungeons that scale all gear to X stat level with harder than 5 man monsters. Heroic raid modes that only ~5-7% of the population will see because it requires smart playing, good execution and clever strategies. (this goes for a lot of current MMOs and not just WoW) so it isn't "too easy". Maybe the only things that interest you in a game, are those that are too easy in these MMOs. Thus maybe MMOs are not your exact cup of tea?
And no matter how you look at it, all games are timesinks (designed this way, "fun optional challenges"), require some skill (different skills, and level of skills depending on game), and have repetitive tasks, as games in similar genres... act similarly. (hence why we categorize them in genres - Shooters, I shoot bad guys and collect weapons. RPGs I battle using similar battle tactics to win. Racers I race a car beating other opponents.)
Yeah people have warned me about the max level wall, i intend to start a new WvW character when i get my current one to max lvl, and then just dungeon run with my max lvl character.
Agree with everything you said. I never got into UO and EQ1, didn't even know about MMOs until a co-worker kept talking to me about a game called Star Wars Galaxies. I sunk a lot of time into that game and every game since then just seems to easy and dumbed down.
I'm looking forward to a proper sandbox MMO. Themeparks cannot hold my interest for more than a couple months. If you haven't heard about it, The Repopulation is an up and coming sandbox MMO due out late this year and it ticks off all of the boxes that old school MMOs had. It's either that, or hopefully SOE can complete a hail mary and really make EQNext a proper sandbox MMO.
I may have to check that out. One of the biggest issues with me and today's glut of MMO titles, is the lack of randomized loot. I rather enjoyed finding an item that had 6-7 random rolls, including glow and style. That made for a rather unique gear set that may have taken months to acquire, something to be proud about. Nowadays, you just run a few instances/raids and voila, you look like 40% of the population.
TLDR; Give me an MMO with diablo style loot rolls again.
I hate to say it but the "old days" are not coming back. WOW is the most succesfull by a landside/rockslide/mountainside.. You will not see anybody change this winning combo up to much even when almost complete rip off cant make it. The "succesfull" current MMORPG's dont have a 10th of the player base of WoW.
WOW has shown many things, Players want easy, players want ALL content available for them, players want time sinks, players want repetitive easy grinds. Players dont want hard. easy MMORPG 10,000,000 paid accounts, hard MMORPG 1,000,000 (if they are lucky) game are a business.. the math is pretty easy, you doubtfully will see the numbers of the game you copy.. so if you are going to copy one and make money which would you copy if you thought you where going to make 50% ?
I personally feel the Experience i had in EQ was the best, everything was new, everything you accomplished felt like it took skill and work, yes the penalties for failing where harsh (to the extreme on large raids). But that made your wins that much better.
With that said i dont think i could go back to EQ (and have tried, its still going) as its just to labored now..
EQ had HUGE flaws.. most new content (dungeons etc) where seen by less then 25% of the player base, due to difficulty and people having lives.. EQ instance runs often where hours of setup, hours if you wiped.. and took more then 5-6 people.. often 20+ yes you where joe cool (in EQ) if you had the one rare piece of armour, but we also knew you seldom ventured outside as the time it took to get that was enormous.. gear up in instance a so you have fire set, gear up in instance b so you had int set.. so you could swap during instance c for specific parts.. I wont even get into the fact certain AA points where needed .. and the grind for those was awfull unless you grouped constantly.
EQ was great, but flawed.. and not many people who buy games would jump in on that again after easy street.. even sorta easy street seems to hard.
But like the rest here, i keep hope alive, try um all. maybe that EQ experience will come along again.. and for those reading, insert your favorite game where I have EQ.
WOW has shown many things, Players want easy, players want ALL content available for them, players want time sinks, players want repetitive easy grinds. Players dont want hard. easy MMORPG 10,000,000 paid accounts, hard MMORPG 1,000,000 (if they are lucky) game are a business.. the math is pretty easy, you doubtfully will see the numbers of the game you copy.. so if you are going to copy one and make money which would you copy if you thought you where going to make 50% ?
I personally feel the Experience i had in EQ was the best, everything was new, everything you accomplished felt like it took skill and work, yes the penalties for failing where harsh (to the extreme on large raids). But that made your wins that much better.
With that said i dont think i could go back to EQ (and have tried, its still going) as its just to labored now..
EQ had HUGE flaws.. most new content (dungeons etc) where seen by less then 25% of the player base, due to difficulty and people having lives.. EQ instance runs often where hours of setup, hours if you wiped.. and took more then 5-6 people.. often 20+ yes you where joe cool (in EQ) if you had the one rare piece of armour, but we also knew you seldom ventured outside as the time it took to get that was enormous.. gear up in instance a so you have fire set, gear up in instance b so you had int set.. so you could swap during instance c for specific parts.. I wont even get into the fact certain AA points where needed .. and the grind for those was awfull unless you grouped constantly.
EQ was great, but flawed.. and not many people who buy games would jump in on that again after easy street.. even sorta easy street seems to hard.
But like the rest here, i keep hope alive, try um all. maybe that EQ experience will come along again.. and for those reading, insert your favorite game where I have EQ.
diesbudt
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2012
- 3,393
- 0
- 0
See Bolded.
Basically you want stuff that is hard, but seen by everybody. Which means you only want a game with amazing players, and content that is hard. Which is impossible as the average player of MMOs is not that skilled/good.
Secondly, you call WoW easy. Yes, it is easy in the terms there are plenty of things to do that do not require massive effort if you are not good at raiding/PvP. (Pet battles, farming, achievements, collecting, 5 man heroics, etc.)
However, Go for Gladiator in 3s or 5s [only 0.5% top PvPs in each bracket get glad title], Rated Battlegrounds, 5 man challenge modes, heroic raids only about 3% will see while content is relevent because of difficulty. Yes, sounds like an easy game to me.
But going back to my original statement. Peoples feelings of the awesomeness that was EQ wasn't because EQ was amazing. (Lots of flaws) It was because it was both amazing for its time [huge leap] and almost a whole new genre to explore. So there were so many things to make one excited just to explore.
Today MMOs have advanced so much there is no "major leap" a game can take anymore that will give that same jump EQ gave, and since MMOs have been explored now for almost 1.5 decades of gaming, the "online MMO" isn't as eye-widening because it has now become normal, to play with plenty of people at once.
I disagree with most of what you have said.
1. The instance grinding is not the challenge anyone that I know of is looking for. Instances with low group size limits and lockouts inhibit fostering guilds and long-term stability.
2. Seamless worlds where just venturing out is dangerous is the challenge that many seem to be looking for. Fighting over an open world dungeon or loot spot is engaging.
3. I do not know of anyone who enjoyed the old school MMOs who consider any of these ultra themepark MMOs as advanced, seems more like a bad evolution from the roots of a MMO into a series of portals that take you to the dungeon or pvp zone(s).
I do believe that the new-nis of those old school MMOs was a part of the thrill and nostalgia, but I believe the bigger portion of us old-timers is the virtual world with real challenge via risk Vs reward. There is no risk in any of these themepark games. No persistent housing or other valuable objects that can be destroyed, no real death penalty to speak of, no risk for anything. Leveling up takes a matter of a couple weeks and embarrassingly poor crafting systems that are next to worthless.
There is room for older style MMOs. A MMO doesn't need to have a million+ players as long as it's profitable and the developer/publisher are satisfied. I believe sandbox games hold much higher player retention than themeparks. WoW is an anomoly and it wasn't always so easy, when it's population exploded it was rather a difficult game. I don't think we'll see a proper game that brings back that nostalgia unless it's an Indie developer or SOE throwing up a miracle with EQ Next.
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