Most affordable DSLR with video better than HD camcorder?"

[slackerinabox]

I have a Canon HV30 and, while the IQ is pretty nice for a low end camcorder, I really miss the DOF possibilities and think a DSLR would work well for that. I'm not a professional but used to work on low budget crews (and went to film school). I'd love to take up short film making again as a hobby, so would like decent to great quality (better than my hv30), with some manual control. So what's a good camera for someone with a mark ii hot rod for a civic price?

 

[996GT2]

Sony A55, Canon T2i, Nikon D3100

 

[Kanalua]

Canon T2i

 

[Cattykit]

Currentyly, T2i is the best thing in below $1000 market and I'm sure it will blow you away.

However, A55 and D3100 is coming out soon and it may chagne the current landscape. You should really wait for A55 because it's got some revolutionary concepts in it. The best thing is that it's supposed to do real-time AF when shooting video. The downside is that it won't offer manual control. The biggest problem with it is not being able to set the shutter speed. That I think is the deal breaker (high speed shutter videos look damn cheap, messy, and ugly) but it may not matter much to you depending on what you intend to shoot.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Doesnt the D3100 feature continuous AF too? I'd like to see how this turns out. Nikon's current video codecs are a joke, but I know they're redoing it with the D3100 right? So we'll see if this is the new thing to get.

I have a T1i and even 720p is amazing. The 1080p of my 7D blows me away though.

 

[Cattykit]

"Doesnt the D3100 feature continuous AF too?"

At best, it'll be better than Canon's but I don't think it's going to be anything usable given limitations in current technology. Sony could pull it off for A55 uses different approach: pellicle mirror. Sony and Nikon is planning to embed AF sensors directly into the sensor. Until that becomes reality, I think Sony's pellicle mirror approach will be the best thing.

 

[slackerinabox]

The t2i footage looks absolutely stunning - thanks guys. Goal set!

 

[Kaido]

The t2i footage looks absolutely stunning - thanks guys. Goal set!

The T2i is a beast - I absolutely love mine! It's a really handy size & format too - nice small camera and easy to import footage off the SD card. Here's some sample footage from my T2i with a vintage Zeiss lens:

http://vimeo.com/14378607

Easy as pie - no tape import! I was an HV20 guy for many years, and let me just tell you how much nicer it is not to have to do a realtime import over Firewire, haha. Just pop the card in your card reader and go! Even a full 8-gig card only takes about 10 minutes to copy over to your hard drive.

You also don't have to do any crazy tricks for shutter speed, like the cell phone thing. I had one of those Lite boxes for mine and it was kind of annoying to have to use. With the T2i, you can just do 24fps-1/50, 30fps-1/60, and 60fps-1/125 with a flip of the dial. Plus you get real manual control, which is great.

If you're into lenses, you can get adapters for all kinds of stuff. I have vintage Zeiss lenses, Nikon lenses, and a Vivitar lens in my bag, all using adapters. Plus, because the T2i is a crop sensor, you can use all kinds of lenses, not just FF ones. So if you want an ultra-wide angle lens, you can pick up an 11-16mm Tokina 2.8 for $600 and go to town!

Another nice thing is that there are a lot of accessories. You can get a follow focus, a lens loope for viewing the LCD outdoors, LCD monitors for a larger image, all kinds of stuff. And because it's a lightweight camera (only a pound or two), you can get away with using a lot of smaller, cheaper stabilization equipment - steadicams, jibs, skater dollies, slider dollies, etc.

The T2i is currently my top recommendation if you want to do fun film projects. If you want something with autofocus and a mega-zoom and long recording times, you're better off sticking with a camcorder. But if you want great DOF, rack focus ability, sharp images, and manual control, the T2i is pretty great. I highly recommend it, especially for the price. Oh, and I'd recommend picking up the kit lens (18-55mm) - it's a great starter lens for video!

 

[Cattykit]

I need to make a correction.

I said A55 won't offer manual control during video recording and it's a deal breaker. I was told that it does offer full manual control when in MF mode.
I'm not sure if it's true or not. Can anyone confirm it?

 

[slackerinabox]

The T2i is a beast - I absolutely love mine! It's a really handy size & format too - nice small camera and easy to import footage off the SD card. Here's some sample footage from my T2i with a vintage Zeiss lens:

http://vimeo.com/14378607

Easy as pie - no tape import! I was an HV20 guy for many years, and let me just tell you how much nicer it is not to have to do a realtime import over Firewire, haha. Just pop the card in your card reader and go! Even a full 8-gig card only takes about 10 minutes to copy over to your hard drive.

You also don't have to do any crazy tricks for shutter speed, like the cell phone thing. I had one of those Lite boxes for mine and it was kind of annoying to have to use. With the T2i, you can just do 24fps-1/50, 30fps-1/60, and 60fps-1/125 with a flip of the dial. Plus you get real manual control, which is great.

If you're into lenses, you can get adapters for all kinds of stuff. I have vintage Zeiss lenses, Nikon lenses, and a Vivitar lens in my bag, all using adapters. Plus, because the T2i is a crop sensor, you can use all kinds of lenses, not just FF ones. So if you want an ultra-wide angle lens, you can pick up an 11-16mm Tokina 2.8 for $600 and go to town!

Another nice thing is that there are a lot of accessories. You can get a follow focus, a lens loope for viewing the LCD outdoors, LCD monitors for a larger image, all kinds of stuff. And because it's a lightweight camera (only a pound or two), you can get away with using a lot of smaller, cheaper stabilization equipment - steadicams, jibs, skater dollies, slider dollies, etc.

The T2i is currently my top recommendation if you want to do fun film projects. If you want something with autofocus and a mega-zoom and long recording times, you're better off sticking with a camcorder. But if you want great DOF, rack focus ability, sharp images, and manual control, the T2i is pretty great. I highly recommend it, especially for the price. Oh, and I'd recommend picking up the kit lens (18-55mm) - it's a great starter lens for video!

Cute car! And splendid video. Thanks so much for all the very useful info. The only gear I'll need out of the gate is a good tripod and steadycam rig -any suggestions? Are traditional fluid head video tripods ok, or does the reduction in weight have an impact?

Also - I'm used to shooting both on camera sound (using a beachtek xlr adapter) or to say minidisk (back in the day, I'd use solid state now) - so it's not a major concern, but are their any accessories out there that let you hook up XLR mics + provide phantom power?

I'm quite a few months from making a real decision but this is helping me tremendously - gotta set a budget and save!

 

[Cattykit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGiQCzN7MXo&feature=player_embedded

I really suggest you wait. Even if you can't set the shutter speed manually when in AF mode, it's really, I mean really good to have that kind of AF available.
Even better, it's got EVF meaning you can shoot video in eye level if you wish.

Simply put, A55 will offer what T2i offers and even more. A55 really looks like an ultimate vdslr at this moment (But then again, there's FF 5d mk2 and A55's lack of 24fps is quite a downside.)

 

[Kaido]

Cute car! And splendid video. Thanks so much for all the very useful info. The only gear I'll need out of the gate is a good tripod and steadycam rig -any suggestions? Are traditional fluid head video tripods ok, or does the reduction in weight have an impact?

Also - I'm used to shooting both on camera sound (using a beachtek xlr adapter) or to say minidisk (back in the day, I'd use solid state now) - so it's not a major concern, but are their any accessories out there that let you hook up XLR mics + provide phantom power?

I'm quite a few months from making a real decision but this is helping me tremendously - gotta set a budget and save!

Stabilization:

Tripod - I have a Velbon DV-7000. I don't believe these are made anymore, however. But it's a nice, cheap setup if you can find it (metal legs & basic fluid head). Manfrotto came out with a dSLR head (701HDV) but I've heard mixed things about it. If you can save up for it, my recommendation would be to get a heavier-duty fluid head so that you can eventually strap on things like a 3D head, glidetrack, etc., as well as support the weight of any future mods like external LCDs, large lenses, matteboxes, follow focus mechanisms, etc.

Steadicam - best on the market for dSLR cameras is the Blackbird from Camera Motion LLC. Full kit is $675. The Tiffen Merlin is the other primary alternative for serious steadicam work, but it's way too finicky. Also, the Blackbird is compatible with the Tiffen vest & arm, so if you ever want to get really serious about steadicam work, there's a nice upgrade path for you. I have one and absolutely LOVE it. Takes a lot of practice but your footage looks A+. Here's the website:

http://www.camotionllc.com/

You'll want to get a good wide-angle lens for use with the steadicam. The stock 18-55mm does pretty well at 18-20mm; you might also consider the Tokina 11-16mm 2.8 (around $600). Rokinon makes a nice 8mm fisheye for under $300 if you want some more interesting shots.

My favorite tool in my video toolbox is the Glidetrack Shooter. It's a little pricey, but it's super super cool. It's a sliding track that also doubles as a basic shoulder mount. You can put it on any flat surface as well as a tripod. It makes any shot instantly more interesting and isn't very big at all. I went with the 0.5-meter size so that it'd be more portable. You can make your own if you're handy (it uses a machine tool track), but since the Glidetrack already comes with CNC-machined ends, tapped holes, pivot handles, etc. it was just easier for me to go with a pre-made model:

http://www.glidetrack.com/products/glidetrack-shooter.html

Audio:

The T2i has a couple downfalls with audio: first, it's not very good (on-camera audio is never what I'd call "great"), and second, it has AGC (automatic gain control), which means you can't set the level of the audio and then record - it adapts based on the volume it receives. This can be super annoying when you're trying to record things a certain way and the camera tries to figure it out for you. There are a couple solutions...

The first is a Beachtek controller, the DXA-SLR. This has an AGC-disable feature, as well as two XLR inputs that also provide phantom power. There is also a minijack input for hooking up a power mic (like if you have a battery-powered lav) or a wireless mic (like a Sennheiser G-series or Lectronics setup). It has trim & volume dials, minijack out to the camera, metal body, etc. etc. Pretty nice little unit, but also pretty spendy at $399:

http://www.beachtek.com/dxaslr.html

The Beachtek is nice, but expensive - and you're still limited to in-camera audio recording, which isn't that great if you want serious audio. So the second option is to record to a dedicated recorder and then sync in post. The good news is that if you use Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premier, or Sony Vegas, there's a magic plugin that will do a pretty awesome job of syncing on-camera sound with externally-recorded sound. It's called PluralEyes and it goes for $149:

http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html

It's an extra step, but if you want great audio and are willing to go through the extra work of using a separate recording system, I haven't found anything better than this. As far as recorders go, there's quite a few to choose from. If you want XLR inputs and are on a budget, the Zoom H4n is the best option. You can get these new on eBay for around $320 with a nice kit (memory card, wired remote, etc.). You can also use the built-in mics for recording ambience and room tone, although I'd HIGHLY recommend picking up a Redhead Windscreen for that:

http://www.redheadwindscreens.com/

I have a Zoom H2 (smaller minijack-input model) and it's really fabulous for what it is; just make sure you get a Redhead windscreen if you get one - it's practically required lol. Now, Zoom also just barely released a $99 recorder called the Zoom H1, which from what I've read sounds as good as or better than the H2, in a much smaller format. This would also make a nice "wireless" interview mic that you can sync in post later:

http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=2053

If you want "serious" audio, the minimum recorded I'd recommend is the Marantz PMD661. It's a little pricier at $599, but it's uber uber quiet - an entry-level professional audio tool. You can get it with a wired remote & memory card for around $680 from B&H. I'd also recommend getting a compact mixer to go with that to easily control levels. The minimum I'd go with is the Sound Devices 302, which goes for $1300:

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/302master.htm

Don't bother with the MixPre (cheaper model with fewer features), the 302 is really the route to go if you have the funds for a decent audio kit. So there's a few options, depending on your goals & budget: Beachtek if you want on-camera audio, PluralEyes if you want easy off-camera audio sync, Zoom H1 for a small, portable recorder, Zoom H4n for an inexpensive XLR recorder, and PMD661 for a high-quality XLR recorder with an SD302 if you want a serious mixer. Sound Devices makes a lot of great recorders, but they start getting into the $1900+ range, so unless you're doing it for a living or have money to burn, you can get away with the cheaper stuff and get pretty great results on a budget.