More Windows Home Server 32-bit questions:

[BonzaiDuck]

I understand that it doesn't make sense to install workstation software like MS Office, etc. on the server box.

Even so, I'm setting up the WHS server with a StarTech hot-swap IDE bay and caddies -- for the additional security of a hot-swap/removeable backup.

The StarTech currently "works" correctly, but it won't "mount" and "dismount" the drive through any features of WHS. So I need to lock the drive in place during reboot, so the drive is mounted and recognized by the OS.

These hot-swap devices come with a software utility (ostensibly for Win-2000 and XP) called "Swap Manager." StarTech told me that it "should work" under WHS (or Win 2003).

When I went to install the program from CD, it shows that the "SYS C:" volume has no available room. But when I open WHS's Windows Explorer and view "properties," it shows what you'd expect: about 6GB used and 14GB free -- about what you'd expect.

Must I create a "Program Files" folder on the "DATA" volume? How might that "mess things up?" I've seen vague and brief references to installing "ordinary software" under WHS, but not enough detail to answer these questions.

I've tried WHS Add-ins -- have three of them installed -- and fine -- that's no problem. But I haven't found anything that addresses a need for a hot-swap utility like Swap Manager.

 

[RebateMonger]

In answer to your quesiton about installation location:

Installing software directly on the WHS server - where to install

"When installing software on the Server directly, it is fine to use the default installation directory (usually C:\Program Files) especially for utility software like defragmentation tools, anti virus solutions and third-party backup software. But remember the system drive C: has only 20GB allocated to it (in the RTM version), so installing too much software on the C: drive will eat into that space.

You can create directory?s on the D: drive and install to them as long as it is NOT in the D:\shares folder or subfolders. It is best practice to create folder(s) in the root of your D: drive and to stay out of the folders you see already present."

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm "easy" for attempting to do it that way, R-Bates, but I'm wondering how or why the SwapManager "Install" program shows no space available on C:.

Anyway, "here goes" -- and I'll report my results or failures in a few . . .

EDIT -- A FEW MINUTES LATER:

O--KAYYY!! Very strange view of things through the Windows Explorer under WHS. It "looks" like there's no "available" "pink" space for the drive under properties, but you can create folders just as suggested by your excerpt and link. [So I created a D:\Program Files folder and a D:\ . . . . \SwapManager folder underneath it.

And the space is recognized by the SwapManager installer, and installs to that location.

And ALSO -- the program seems to run without a hitch, so that I can "mount" the drive. The drive is then "recognized" in the WHS Windows Explorer, and I'd bet next week's chump-change allowance that it shows up as "Not Added" from the drive pool but "available" under the Home SErver Console of another workstation.

. . . and it does . . . . it does . . .

So . . . while I'm at it, I'll ask another question: Or suggest a question -- I'm still "feeling my way" around various web-sites posting "WHS How-To" blogs . . . If I want to use the hot-swap drive to back up server shared files and backups made through scheduling or manually from workstation "server console" sessions, should I use the "Backup" utility available through the WHS "START->Programs->Accessories" ?

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
If I want to use the hot-swap drive to back up server shared files and backups made through scheduling or manually from workstation "server console" sessions, should I use the "Backup" utility available through the WHS "START->Programs->Accessories" ?

No. That's Windows NTBackup, which has no special awareness of how WHS works. It won't properly shut down the two services needed to properly back up the "backup database". And it won't know what to do with the Tombstones used by WHS' Drive Extender.

To back up the backup database, look at Microsoft's white paper on backup and restore technology in WHS. And there's an option in the Backup tab in the WHS management console to back up the various shared folders to an added drive that hasn't been added to the storage pool.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
If I want to use the hot-swap drive to back up server shared files and backups made through scheduling or manually from workstation "server console" sessions, should I use the "Backup" utility available through the WHS "START->Programs->Accessories" ?

No. That's Windows NTBackup, which has no special awareness of how WHS works. It won't properly shut down the two services needed to properly back up the "backup database". And it won't know what to do with the Tombstones used by WHS' Drive Extender.

To back up the backup database, look at Microsoft's white paper on backup and restore technology in WHS. And there's an option in the Backup tab in the WHS management console to back up the various shared folders to an added drive that hasn't been added to the storage pool.

Thanks! I thought there might be some complication with that, and you wonder why WHS includes the legacy backup program without modifying it to suit the possible needs for it.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
Thanks! I thought there might be some complication with that, and you wonder why WHS includes the legacy backup program without modifying it to suit the possible needs for it.

WHS' disk extender is very new technology. I think it's well done, but theres certain problems that haven't been solved yet. Like MS has no way to backup the server itself. And there's no good way to determine WHAT you lost if you lose a hard disk without redundant folders enabled.

And "Previous Versions" doesn't always work when the Disk Extender is enabled (i.e. more than one disk in the storage pool). MS has disabled "Previous Versions" to be safe, but that means that if you accidentally delete a file in the shared folders, it's GONE. That's why, like with all file servers, you can't rely on the built-in redundancy as a backup.

I think that WHS is amazing. But it's not perfect.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
Thanks! I thought there might be some complication with that, and you wonder why WHS includes the legacy backup program without modifying it to suit the possible needs for it.

WHS' disk extender is very new technology. I think it's well done, but theres certain problems that haven't been solved yet. Like MS has no way to backup the server itself. And there's no good way to determine WHAT you lost if you lose a hard disk without redundant folders enabled.

And "Previous Versions" doesn't always work when the Disk Extender is enabled (i.e. more than one disk in the storage pool). MS has disabled "Previous Versions" to be safe, but that means that if you accidentally delete a file in the shared folders, it's GONE. That's why, like with all file servers, you can't rely on the built-in redundancy as a backup.

I think that WHS is amazing. But it's not perfect.

You'll see my other remarks in the PM's I sent.

I think the interface, for its simplicity, takes some getting used to. Some programs, like my hotswap management software, has to be run from the WHS desktop. I heard that that ADd-in I mentioned -- "Advanced Admin Console" or whatever -- actually provided a virtual desktop on a client PC.

But I think -- given the sorts of things one feels comfortable with -- and the sorts of things that WHS is capable of -- it's worth navigating through it to get it to do as much as you need, even if you didn't envision doing things the way it allows you to.

After I rebuild all the folders I had on the old server and port that stuff to WHS, I'll probably set to work loading up videos and configuring it to stream to Media Centers on the other machines.

On the matter of backups, it seems there are two ways to go: you can get WHS to schedule backups of selected folders or whole drives from the clients, but you could also schedule backups through client backup software and send that stuff to the shared folders on the server.

If the shared folders can then be copied to a hotswap or USB drive without adding the latter to the pool, then that can also work.

For about a year, I had client machines running Windows backup on an automatic schedule through weeks, months -- etc. and dumping the backup files onto server folders for each PC. I know that worked. Backing up THOSE folders almost seems to be overkill, but I did that . . . too . . . I think that's what I'm trying to do with the Startech hardware.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
Thanks! I thought there might be some complication with that, and you wonder why WHS includes the legacy backup program without modifying it to suit the possible needs for it.

WHS' disk extender is very new technology. I think it's well done, but theres certain problems that haven't been solved yet. Like MS has no way to backup the server itself. And there's no good way to determine WHAT you lost if you lose a hard disk without redundant folders enabled.

And "Previous Versions" doesn't always work when the Disk Extender is enabled (i.e. more than one disk in the storage pool). MS has disabled "Previous Versions" to be safe, but that means that if you accidentally delete a file in the shared folders, it's GONE. That's why, like with all file servers, you can't rely on the built-in redundancy as a backup.

I think that WHS is amazing. But it's not perfect.

Heh-heh. Hee-hee. :laugh:

OK. Here's "one path" toward "backing up the server" -- barring anything else, such as need to have the hotswap recognized as "removable." I'll deal with that later.

There's a WHS add-in called "File-Manager" -- the usual two-panel GUI we've seen since the '90s in various similar utility extensions to "Windows Explorer" or whatever came before.

"File Manager" recognizes the hotswap drive as a target drive, once it's been mounted, and without adding it to the storage pool.

Meanwhile, the "Advanced Admin Console" add-in link is restored, and I installed it. It truly presents a desktop of WHS on the client-machine console window. Now all I have to do is (probably) go to "Computer Management->Storage->Disk-Management," and change the "properties" of that drive to drop the write-back caching and see it as a "removable drive." Don't know . . . we'll see . . .

EDIT: The point being -- given the remarks here about "backup databases" etc. -- I can still back up all the WHS SHARES to the hot-swap. And you can have "backups" either of two ways:

* WHS backs up client machines, so the client machines can be restored from the WHS server with the Restore CD and other tools -- and --
* Client machines, using their own backup software and/or scheduling, can back up to the WHS shared folders -- to folders shared to specific accounts and labeled to represent the client machine-name. It is THESE folders which can be backed up -- in turn -- to a hot-swap IDE (and/or USB drive), or eSATA (which might have same problem being recognized as "removable") -- with those target disks excluded from the storage pool.

That's the up-side. The down-side: I can disable "write-caching," but I can't select the radio-button to "optimize for quick removal." So I can't get WHS to treat this like an external USB drive.

So far, I can see making these backups manually. I don't see how they might be scheduled.