More voodoo economic craziness

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Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I'll order thier 10k just for you. last 10 years....very carefully mentioned...when you get profitable you don't need to borrow anymore.. what about the first 10 I guarntee you their growth was by borrowing, BTW- people are still able to buy stock in Dell right? All this of this of course is besides the point since consumers created lots of jobs at Dell. You're prolly one of those crappy customer service types who kisses your bosses ass not realizing who really brings in the dough. Oh well takes all types.


I bet you ask Dell he'll tell you who creates his worth and would fire anyone who got cocky and felt otherwise.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
I'll order thier 10k just for you. last 10 years....very carefully mentioned...when you get profitable you don't need to borrow anymore.. what about the first 10 I guarntee you their growth was by borrowing, BTW- people are still able to buy stock in Dell right? All this of this of course is besides the point since consumers created lots of jobs at Dell. You're prolly one of those crappy customer service types who kisses your bosses ass not realizing who really brings in the dough. Oh well takes all types.


I bet you ask Dell he'll tell you who creates his worth and would fire anyone who got cocky and felt otherwise.
From what I have read Dell started his company by selling computer parts out of his dorm room and by doing computer work for people. He took that money, bought more parts, did more work, then took that money, bought more parts, did more work, etc...until he opened an actual store. His store was successful and funded by the money had had made off his original $1000 he used to buy parts to sell them out of his dorm room. He later realized a store was not the way to do business and began selling through mail order. He would use the money made from the mail order business to buy more parts, etc....after a while of operating like this the Dell you know today came into being. No venture capital borrowed, no bank loans taken out. It was all funded from that original $1000 he used to buy parts that he sold out of his dorm room.

Of course if you had actually read what I posted above. Especially this:

"How to Make a Lot of Money
Through the 19th century, most manufactured products were custom goods -- for example, a furniture maker's income was limited by how many hours a year he spent in the shop. Leveraging capital and production created the great fortunes of the 20th century. For example, the Mars family's wealth was derived from candy bars, the Rockefellers' from oil, the Carnegies' from railroads, the Phipps' from steel, the Gambles' (of Procter & Gamble) from soap, the Fords' from automobiles. From each unit sold, a tiny slice flowed back to the founding families. Multiplied by millions of units sold, vast fortunes accumulated.

Late-20th century examples include Bill Gates of Microsoft (MSFT:Nasdaq - news - commentary - research - analysis) and Michael Dell of Dell Computers (DELL:Nasdaq - news - commentary - research - analysis). Tiny slices of each PC sold eventually led to multibillion-dollar fortunes. "


You would realize he did it all on his own and was not the only business man to do so in recent memory.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
10-K from 1999 shows $512M in long-term debt.

Dell 10-K

I don't feel like reading through all the old MD&A and other details to see why they borrowed it.

Michael
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Originally posted by: Michael
10-K from 1999 shows $512M in long-term debt.

Dell 10-K

I don't feel like reading through all the old MD&A and other details to see why they borrowed it.

Michael
I think that was due to a number of stock buy backs. Saw it mentioned on one of the sites when I was looking for info. Apparently Dell had a massive common stock buy back program for several years starting in the mid 90's.

I'm going to bed now....will try to find that site again between meetings at work tomorrow.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
From what I have read Dell started his company by selling computer parts out of his dorm room and by doing computer work for people. He took that money, bought more parts, did more work, then took that money, bought more parts, did more work, etc...until he opened an actual store.
A very knowledgable "source" here in Austin told me that Michael Dell also liked to rebadge old 8088 machines back in the old days and pass them off as his own.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Speaking of buybacks why even sell stock if you don't need any external funding? Seems like a huge unessesary expense. You have all the SEC requirments, the brokerage house to underwrite it (huge fee) and giving part of your ownership up. Stay like Cargil or Bechtel, private.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
Being public allows owners to sell more easily than you could as a private company and the public information and access to capital markets can help.

In some cases, staying private or going private again is better. There is a decent-sized charge to being a public copany.

Michael
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: Michael
Being public allows owners to sell more easily than you could as a private company and the public information and access to capital markets can help.

In some cases, staying private or going private again is better. There is a decent-sized charge to being a public copany.

Michael
Additionally, partial ownership of the company by employees and "special interests" tends to increase status, quality and productivity. Also, stock, unlike debt (bonds), really doesn't require that the issuer repay the infusion of capitalization under specified terms.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I understand that part Micheal, but from Dell who never needed to spunge off the public, it seems stupid to partially sell off your company for it if you don't need it. I mean after all any guy who can turn $1000 into a 30 some billion dollar a year in sales operation in 20 years surely does'nt need outside influences and additional expenditure.

I'd be curious to know if he used student loan money to start this business. He was a student, living in the dorms did he have a JOB? How did he aquire the $1000?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Zebo
Really? $1000 can sell billions in product, he is amazing. I think you'd better check out how much he borrowed from commercial banks (which we guarntee) and shareholders before calling anyone stupid.
He started with 1k of his own money. He is not the only that has started with little to make millions.
Zebo doesn't understand that and never will. By his own admission he makes his money from sucking off the tit of the taxpayer.
What you don't undersand is every job is sucking the tit of the taxpayer. Even Dell himself. Think about how money is created and the flow from the four bank hiarachcy, to your employer and finally to you. It will make sense.
Yes money comes from the goverment, but that does not mean the goverment creates jobs.

Oh shoot I missed your post..Sorry charr... Well here we have it. This goes back to the original post. No government does'nt create jobs perse ( How bout Lockheed Martin, Ratheon, fire dept, military etc..?), however they foster (the good ones), a competitivly fair enviroment for business, make sure thier poeple are safe, educated, and heathly to beat foreign compitition and make sure thier citzens are safe both at home and from foriegn invasion. This costs losts oif money to do properly. So why are we getting on about Germany, France sweden whomever is tring to do this? Libertarians live in this utopia of hands-off and everything will take care of itself, however we see what hands off gets those third worlders I mentioned in this thread. Suckass third world darwinism which none of us would move to. Guys like Shiner like to think he's specail but he would be nothing more than a dirty little farmer like most americans were pre-newdeal without some of these socialistic policies.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
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Oh yes, the transition away from an agricultural based society to a service, technology, and manufacturing economy started with the new deal. Yeah, that must have been the the reason!
 

Brie

Member
May 27, 2003
137
0
0
Originally posted by: Lucky
Oh yes, the transition away from an agricultural based society to a service, technology, and manufacturing economy started with the new deal. Yeah, that must have been the the reason!

I thought it was when Al Gore invented the internet.

Zebo,
You mentioned the audacity of bands charging consumers so much intrest. Bank rates exist becuase barks are loaning to BANKS. Not some guy off the street but a BANK. The same goes for a corporation. The reason why we have tiered banks and different rates at each level is due to risk.

What you don't undersand is every job is sucking the tit of the taxpayer. Even Dell himself. Think about how money is created and the flow from the four bank hiarachcy, to your employer and finally to you. It will make sense.
Incidentally this sounds like a quote from Das Capital, Marx.
M-M' <=== Evilness
 

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