More voodoo economic craziness

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
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So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.

 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Since when do the right refer to France and Germany, except when it suits their political agendas? ;)

Anyway, their tax cuts aim for the middle class while our tax cut is aimed at the wealthy and to bankrupt social security.
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
0
76
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.
Care to back it up.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Since when do the right refer to France and Germany, except when it suits their political agendas?
This was shown as an example of how little the left knows about economic policy.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.
Care to back it up.
France is cutting its top rate to 54%. This is just for income tax and not any others taxes a person might pay. Canadian taxes are significatly higher as well for the their "Free" healtcare.
Same for the UK, Germany, and and any other country that has "free" healthcare.
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Since when do the right refer to France and Germany, except when it suits their political agendas?
This was shown as an example of how little the left knows about economic policy.
Way to twist words I didn't say. Wow... In that Quote I didn't mention economy at all until I edited it.

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Since when do the right refer to France and Germany, except when it suits their political agendas?
This was shown as an example of how little the left knows about economic policy.
Way to twist words I didn't say. Wow... In that Quote I didn't mention economy at all until I edited it.
You asked the question, i gave you an answer. I am sorry you dont like it.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.
Care to back it up.
France is cutting its top rate to 54%. This is just for income tax and not any others taxes a person might pay. Canadian taxes are significatly higher as well for the their "Free" healtcare.
Same for the UK, Germany, and and any other country that has "free" healthcare.
My God, those percentages give me nightmares.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Since when do the right refer to France and Germany, except when it suits their political agendas? ;)

Anyway, their tax cuts aim for the middle class while our tax cut is aimed at the wealthy and to bankrupt social security.
Well, we could mention their higher unemployment, their slower economic recovery and the strikes in France over cuts in unemployment benifits.

But since you want to change the topic and turn this discussion into just another flame war since you have nothing of substance to add to this discussion, I won't.

 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
0
76
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.
Care to back it up.
France is cutting its top rate to 54%. This is just for income tax and not any others taxes a person might pay. Canadian taxes are significatly higher as well for the their "Free" healtcare.
Same for the UK, Germany, and and any other country that has "free" healthcare.
My God, those percentages give me nightmares.
Don't worry, your taco bell job isn't going to put you in any bracket above 15%.

 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.
Care to back it up.
France is cutting its top rate to 54%. This is just for income tax and not any others taxes a person might pay. Canadian taxes are significatly higher as well for the their "Free" healtcare.
Same for the UK, Germany, and and any other country that has "free" healthcare.
My God, those percentages give me nightmares.
Don't worry, your taco bell job isn't going to put you in any bracket above 15%.
ouch, you think you're special cause you're the big, bad CUSTODIAL ENGINEER and you get to eat the left-overs?
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
0
76
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.
Care to back it up.
France is cutting its top rate to 54%. This is just for income tax and not any others taxes a person might pay. Canadian taxes are significatly higher as well for the their "Free" healtcare.
Same for the UK, Germany, and and any other country that has "free" healthcare.
My God, those percentages give me nightmares.
Don't worry, your taco bell job isn't going to put you in any bracket above 15%.
ouch, you think you're special cause you're the big, bad CUSTODIAL ENGINEER and you get to eat the left-overs?
Nobody is supposed to know about that. Keep it quiet.

:)
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.
Care to back it up.
Gladly...

It's a bit complicated....hope you can follow.

France

Couldn't find one page with lots of info like the German one. Seems the French like to keep their taxes secret.

Base income tax can be as high as 52.75%

French Wealth tax can be as high as 1.8%

Social taxes, what they call "CDG" = a flat 8%

Not much more could be found though other taxes were mentioned. Seems they didn't want to get into all the local govt. taxes. Anyway...add the numbers above together and you get 62.55%

Germany

The Method of Taxation in Germany:

Base income tax can be as high as 48.5 percent.

Then you have municple taxes which include things like an 8%-9% tax if you belong to a church.

A 5.5% solidarity tax imposed to help pay for the merger of the two Germanys

Then there is the 50% Capital Gains tax

Then there is the 12.8% social security tax employees must pay

Add it all together, excluding the Capital Gains and assuming a person is a church member, and you get....70.3%
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
So when do I get my free health care like the Germans, French, and even the freaking Iraqis get?
As soon as you start paying 70% of your income in taxes.
Care to back it up.
It's a bit complicated....hope you can follow.

France

Couldn't find one page with lots of info like the German one. Seems the French like to keep their taxes secret.

Base income tax can be as high as 52.75%

French Wealth tax can be as high as 1.8%

Social taxes, what they call "CDG" = a flat 8%

Not much more could be found though other taxes were mentioned. Seems they didn't want to get into all the local govt. taxes. Anyway...add the numbers above together and you get 62.55%

Germany

The Method of Taxation in Germany:

Base income tax can be as high as 48.5 percent.

Then you have municple taxes which include things like an 8%-9% tax if you belong to a church.

A 5.5% solidarity tax imposed to help pay for the merger of the two Germanys

Then there is the 50% Capital Gains tax

Then there is the 12.8% social security tax employees must pay

Add it all together, excluding the Capital Gains and assuming a person is a church member, and you get....70.3%
:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q
What human being can subject themselves to such legalized robbery?
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
lol its going to get messy in here I can tell...

France and Germany are having more problems than us economically, their tax cuts are aimed at the middle class to spur consumer spending and confidence in the economy once again.

Bush's tax cut makes no sense at all, it signifigantly shifts the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class. Under the assumption that the wealthy would pass the savings on like a trickle effect. It didn't work that way under Reagan, it doesnt work now. That is why most economist and Warren Buffet are highly critical of the tax cut. Because it doesnt make sense economically not to mention it's socially and fiscally irresponsible in the time of such growing deficit.

That's why most people view the tax cuts as favor for Bush's friends. It mostly benefits the wealthy not the ordinary citizen.
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
0
76
Most people aren't making 200,000 or more to have to pay that much. If you bring an average Joe off the street with a household income of 60k, 2 kids... There is a good chance that he will be paying the same amount of taxes as the person in France is without the added perks. Now imagine Joe, paying $500 a month for health insurance of his family. That's 6k or 10% right there. The best way to compare the tax systems plus perks would be to take the median salary of both countries and run them through the tax systems and see who comes up with the most disposable income.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Most people aren't making 200,000 or more to have to pay that much. If you bring an average Joe off the street with a household income of 60k, 2 kids... There is a good chance that he will be paying the same amount of taxes as the person in France is without the added perks. Now imagine Joe, paying $500 a month for health insurance of his family. That's 6k or 10% right there. The best way to compare the tax systems plus perks would be to take the median salary of both countries and run them through the tax systems and see who comes up with the most disposable income.
Based purely on income taxes the average tax burden in France is 36%, Germany 47%. The U.S. is 20% which includes social security and medicare.

Add in the local, social, health, etc... taxes in Germany and France and their number will increase quite a bit.

If you include local and state taxes, including sales tax, into the U.S. number is rises to 29.8%.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
lol its going to get messy in here I can tell...

France and Germany are having more problems than us economically, their tax cuts are aimed at the middle class to spur consumer spending and confidence in the economy once again.

Bush's tax cut makes no sense at all, it signifigantly shifts the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class. Under the assumption that the wealthy would pass the savings on like a trickle effect. It didn't work that way under Reagan, it doesnt work now. That is why most economist and Warren Buffet are highly critical of the tax cut. Because it doesnt make sense economically not to mention it's socially and fiscally irresponsible in the time of such growing deficit.

That's why most people view the tax cuts as favor for Bush's friends. It mostly benefits the wealthy not the ordinary citizen.
wrong, at least for germany you are. The German gov't is carrying out painful but necessary corporate reform so that german corporations can be more competitive globally. the labor cushion that most un-employed germans once enjoyed are going to be a thing of the past. the corporate reforms will bring much needed relief to the small businesses of germany, who make up most of corporate germany.

Bush's tax cut was geared towards those that pay the most taxes. lower their burden, and they're most likely to recycle it back into the economy. makes sense to me.

EDIT: These tax cuts are in the guise of reforms, which directly and indirectly cut tax and other burdens on the corporate sector.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I am eagerly awaiting my 400$ per kid economic stimuli... but, it is related to '03 taxes... boo... which means I'm only getting an advance on '03 and not an additional '02 credit... boo.... I want more stimuli...
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
lol its going to get messy in here I can tell...

France and Germany are having more problems than us economically, their tax cuts are aimed at the middle class to spur consumer spending and confidence in the economy once again.

Bush's tax cut makes no sense at all, it signifigantly shifts the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class. Under the assumption that the wealthy would pass the savings on like a trickle effect. It didn't work that way under Reagan, it doesnt work now. That is why most economist and Warren Buffet are highly critical of the tax cut. Because it doesnt make sense economically not to mention it's socially and fiscally irresponsible in the time of such growing deficit.

That's why most people view the tax cuts as favor for Bush's friends. It mostly benefits the wealthy not the ordinary citizen.
Now, I don't know what your definition of the middle class is but I dare say I fall into the lower to mid "middle class" as my household income is ~60,000. I'm just an average married Joe with 2 kids. My tax liability seem to be going down due to Bush's tax cut. Seems that it'll atleast be reduced by $800 because of 2 kids, plus the actual rate reduction which I had estimated back during the tax debate to be atleast $400. So it seems that I'll have a ~1200 reduction in my net tax liability. I was only paying ~$3600 net liability(using only standard deductions) to begin with so that ~1200 looks to be a 33% reduction for me :D Hard to classify that as "not benifiting the ordinary citizen."

You seem to have bought the party line (hook and sinker too;)) on the tax debate. I am being "helped" by the tax cut because I pay income taxes(net;)) Warren Buffet was proved to be a tool in the original debate, and your attacks on Reaganomics are fruitless too. Bush's tax cuts go to everyone who pays taxes, infact it actually takes more people off the tax rolls. Tell them that the tax cuts are bad. Your only hope with the tax issue is the deficit - but that is a paper tiger too since it is OVER-SPENDING that is the real cause of the deficit. The budget deficit is 450billion this year and even if you factor all 350Billion of the tax cut caused this years deficit you'd still be 100Billion in the hole ;) But the tax cut is over 10 year with it being front loaded in the first 2 years.

We've been over this before, so please take your tax-cut rhetoric elsewhere.

CkG

PS- Would it be OK with you if I purchased some hardware, you are selling, with the money I get in the next week or so from G.W. Bush? :D check your FS thread;) Or don't you take "blood money" :p
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Originally posted by: Dari


Bush's tax cut was geared towards those that pay the most taxes. lower their burden, and they're most likely to recycle it back into the economy. makes sense to me.
So the wealthy who don't need the money are more likely to spend it then the poor/middle class who are forced to put purchases they need/want on hold because they can't afford them.

Seems likely to me that the rich might just add their tax cut to their savings and the poor are much more likely to spend it right away on the things they've been putting off.

 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
lol its going to get messy in here I can tell...

France and Germany are having more problems than us economically, their tax cuts are aimed at the middle class to spur consumer spending and confidence in the economy once again.

Bush's tax cut makes no sense at all, it signifigantly shifts the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class. Under the assumption that the wealthy would pass the savings on like a trickle effect. It didn't work that way under Reagan, it doesnt work now. That is why most economist and Warren Buffet are highly critical of the tax cut. Because it doesnt make sense economically not to mention it's socially and fiscally irresponsible in the time of such growing deficit.

That's why most people view the tax cuts as favor for Bush's friends. It mostly benefits the wealthy not the ordinary citizen.
You said that France's and Germany's tax cuts are aimed at the middle class. I'd like you to prove that statement. Show me exactly what the tax cuts are in those two countries. Where did you get that information?
 

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