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More than 10,000 artifacts remain missing from Iraq's National Museum

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
I wonder, how come the story started that only a handful of artifacts were stolen? and where did it start?
 

phillyTIM

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
1,940
10
81
I remember the museum officials working with Bush's Regime before their invasion, to have plans to secure the museum and not bomb it.

well the Bush Regime gets an "F" because only half the job was done (50% = F).

This really is a travesty of the Iraqi heritage.

Of course, it doesn't matter does it, because Iraq will be now on known as an american (type) "democracy". lol
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
Too bad I have no photochop skills. I can see a pic with Bush giving a speech and a mini sphinx or something on a table in the background.



That stuff is going to be in the hands of collectors in no time.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
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Originally posted by: Czar
I wonder, how come the story started that only a handful of artifacts were stolen? and where did it start?
I posted a story from the NY Times which quoted American archaelogists, some with government connections, who repeatedly begged the military to protect the Iraq National Museum which housed on of the world's greatest collections of ancient artifacts of the past 10,000 years. The museum was as well a teaching museum so many of the artifacts were still being studied. The loss was said to be unestimable.

The museum was trashed days after the fall of Baghdad despite the pleas from the archaelogical community. The US military ignored the pleas. At the time pictures were in all the major news media showing the museum in shambles. Outrage was voiced on an international scale.

Within weeks the Bush administration released stories of museum artifacts being found and returned to the museum. Bush supporters posted the claim that most of the artifacts had been recovered and criticized the original story here on this forum.

Now it seems the claim by the Bush administration and its supporters of recovering most of the pieces was just another in a long line of misinformation and outright lies to cover the mistakes and incompetence of this administration.

This is from today's article:

"More than 10,000 artifacts remain missing from Iraq's National Museum five months after a spree of looting that coincided with the capture of Baghdad by U.S. forces, but more than 3,400 other stolen items have been recovered, the U.S. military said yesterday."

I don't know what kind of math the Bush administration uses (well, actually l I do know based on the deficit they've created and the tax cuts they demanded) but 3,400 isn't "MOST of the artifacts when 10,000 ARE STILL MISSING!

3,400 is just a hair over 25 percent of 13,400. I would think "most" at a minimun would need to be 51 percent, no?

Just another lie to cover the incompetence and irresponsibility of the Bush administration.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
0
0
First it was 100s.
Then it was ~30.
Then it was 1000s.
Then it was ~25.
Now it's 1000s again.

Who really knows?
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN

3,400 is just a hair over 25 percent of 13,400. I would think "most" at a minimun would need to be 51 percent, no?

Just another lie to cover the incompetence and irresponsibility of the Bush administration.
A bit more objective insight

More than 10,000 of the stolen items are still missing, Marine Colonel Matthew Bogdanos reported, noting that a full inventory of the museum's vast collection is yet to be completed five months after the end of the war.

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.

The museum's staff removed the bulk of the museum's treasures from public galleries before the war and hid them in the Central Bank vaults, a bomb shelter and another secret location for safekeeping. They have since been accounted for, Bogdanos said.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN

3,400 is just a hair over 25 percent of 13,400. I would think "most" at a minimun would need to be 51 percent, no?

Just another lie to cover the incompetence and irresponsibility of the Bush administration.
A bit more objective insight

More than 10,000 of the stolen items are still missing, Marine Colonel Matthew Bogdanos reported, noting that a full inventory of the museum's vast collection is yet to be completed five months after the end of the war.

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.

The museum's staff removed the bulk of the museum's treasures from public galleries before the war and hid them in the Central Bank vaults, a bomb shelter and another secret location for safekeeping. They have since been accounted for, Bogdanos said.
And it was equally as wrong for the Bush administration to put out he LIE that most of the artifiacts that were stolen had been returned.

 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN

3,400 is just a hair over 25 percent of 13,400. I would think "most" at a minimun would need to be 51 percent, no?

Just another lie to cover the incompetence and irresponsibility of the Bush administration.
A bit more objective insight

More than 10,000 of the stolen items are still missing, Marine Colonel Matthew Bogdanos reported, noting that a full inventory of the museum's vast collection is yet to be completed five months after the end of the war.

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.

The museum's staff removed the bulk of the museum's treasures from public galleries before the war and hid them in the Central Bank vaults, a bomb shelter and another secret location for safekeeping. They have since been accounted for, Bogdanos said.
And it was equally as wrong for the Bush administration to put out he LIE that most of the artifiacts that were stolen had been returned.
Quick, what is "most" of 170,000? 85,001? "Returned"? "Account for"?

Spin?
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN

3,400 is just a hair over 25 percent of 13,400. I would think "most" at a minimun would need to be 51 percent, no?

Just another lie to cover the incompetence and irresponsibility of the Bush administration.
A bit more objective insight

More than 10,000 of the stolen items are still missing, Marine Colonel Matthew Bogdanos reported, noting that a full inventory of the museum's vast collection is yet to be completed five months after the end of the war.

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.

The museum's staff removed the bulk of the museum's treasures from public galleries before the war and hid them in the Central Bank vaults, a bomb shelter and another secret location for safekeeping. They have since been accounted for, Bogdanos said.
And it was equally as wrong for the Bush administration to put out he LIE that most of the artifiacts that were stolen had been returned.
Quick, what is "most" of 170,000? 85,001? "Returned"? "Account for"?

Spin?

Quick, what is most of THE STOLEN ARTIFACTS?

3,400 recovered 10,000 still missing

3,400 / 13,400 = 25%

not "what is "most" of 170,000? 85,001?"

SPIN?
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN

3,400 is just a hair over 25 percent of 13,400. I would think "most" at a minimun would need to be 51 percent, no?

Just another lie to cover the incompetence and irresponsibility of the Bush administration.
A bit more objective insight

More than 10,000 of the stolen items are still missing, Marine Colonel Matthew Bogdanos reported, noting that a full inventory of the museum's vast collection is yet to be completed five months after the end of the war.

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.

The museum's staff removed the bulk of the museum's treasures from public galleries before the war and hid them in the Central Bank vaults, a bomb shelter and another secret location for safekeeping. They have since been accounted for, Bogdanos said.
And it was equally as wrong for the Bush administration to put out he LIE that most of the artifiacts that were stolen had been returned.
Quick, what is "most" of 170,000? 85,001? "Returned"? "Account for"?

Spin?

Quick, what is most of THE STOLEN ARTIFACTS?

3,400 recovered 10,000 still missing

3,400 / 13,400 = 25%

not "what is "most" of 170,000? 85,001?"

SPIN?
*sigh*, once more, for the 'RIF' crowd:

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
PS

The Bush administration knows if you throw enough numbers at most Americans long enought they just become confused and ignore the facts.

It seems to be working with you burnedout.

The Bush administration claimed "MOST OF THE STOLEN ARTIFIACTS" had been returned. You use the TOTAL number in the museum because you are confused. 3,400 is NOT most of 13,400 which is the number of estimated STOLEN artifacts used in this article but I have read and do believe the number of total stolen artifacts to be much higher.

After if they lie about a smaller number they'll lie about larger numbers.

If they can't be trusted in the little things they can't be trusted in big things, can they?
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN

3,400 is just a hair over 25 percent of 13,400. I would think "most" at a minimun would need to be 51 percent, no?

Just another lie to cover the incompetence and irresponsibility of the Bush administration.
A bit more objective insight

More than 10,000 of the stolen items are still missing, Marine Colonel Matthew Bogdanos reported, noting that a full inventory of the museum's vast collection is yet to be completed five months after the end of the war.

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.

The museum's staff removed the bulk of the museum's treasures from public galleries before the war and hid them in the Central Bank vaults, a bomb shelter and another secret location for safekeeping. They have since been accounted for, Bogdanos said.
And it was equally as wrong for the Bush administration to put out he LIE that most of the artifiacts that were stolen had been returned.
Quick, what is "most" of 170,000? 85,001? "Returned"? "Account for"?

Spin?

Quick, what is most of THE STOLEN ARTIFACTS?

3,400 recovered 10,000 still missing

3,400 / 13,400 = 25%

not "what is "most" of 170,000? 85,001?"

SPIN?
*sigh*, once more, for the 'RIF' crowd:

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.
One more for the mathmetically challenged crowd:

3,400 IS NOT most of 13,400.

So why did the Bush administration claim MOST of the artifacts were recovered?

 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
PS

The Bush administration knows if you throw enough numbers at most Americans long enought they just become confused and ignore the facts.

It seems to be working with you burnedout.

The Bush administration claimed "MOST OF THE STOLEN ARTIFIACTS" had been returned. You use the TOTAL number in the museum because you are confused. 3,400 is NOT most of 13,400 which is the number of estimated STOLEN artifacts used in this article but I have read and do believe the number of total stolen artifacts to be much higher.

After if they lie about a smaller number they'll lie about larger numbers.

If they can't be trusted in the little things they can't be trusted in big things, can they?
170,000 artifacts were originally reported stolen as plainly indicated by the lead investigator. Approximately 10,000 have been unaccounted for.

Additionally, there is concern by the administration, as a 13 member team has been working the case.

But please, don't allow your damn whining to get in the way of facts.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN

One more for the mathmetically challenged crowd:

3,400 IS NOT most of 13,400.

So why did the Bush administration claim MOST of the artifacts were recovered?
And another for the subjective, "Reading Is Fundamental" crowd:

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Well you'll obviously never get it.

The original estimate was made after the museum was sacked and found empty. It was thought the museum was completely emptied. That was quickly found to be false. Even though the US military after repeated warnings did nothing to protect the museum the people who worked there had taken many artifacts and stored them safely.

The number of artifacts missing war revised. Soon afterward the Bush administration said MOST of the artifacts were returned. Misleading everyone (what a surprise) into thinking the artifacts which were hidden were stolen and recovered. Which was false.

That leaves us with the fact that there are an uncatalouged number of artifacts missing. The article I posted puts this number at 13,400 (3,400 recovered + 10,000 still missing).

3,400 is not most of 13,400. And it's a damn sin the Bush administration allowed this (and the rest of the fiasco they created in Iraq as well) to happen.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
81
The last thing on earth bush cares about is cultural aspects. Profit, fear and power is his game.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN

Well you'll obviously never get it.
No. YOU obviously don't get it.

For the final time:

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said."

Why must you continually bombard us with these flawed rants? Whose payroll are you on? The Communist Party? Comedy Central? Some obscure leftwing extremist political wannabe?
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Let me give this a whack:

A member of the Bush administration that was knowledgeable on such matters urged DOD to protect the museum . . . he probably said something like, "there are hundreds of thousands of priceless artifacts that must be protected." This same official subsequently resigned in protest of DOD in action.

On the ground in Iraq, knowledgeable curators thought to themselves, "when this goes down . . . these people are going to steal everything all the way down to the lightswitch . . . I bet the Iraqis might do it, too:D;)." Accordingly, they tried to secure as many pieces as possible . . . in places like shelters, the Bank, etc.

Of course the Bushies knew nothing of this b/c . . . they called every minister and military commander in Iraq but calling a museum in the cradle of civilization was not a priority.

After the regime was subdued . . . the "untidiness" began in earnest. The curators in Iraq again begged for protection and received none while looters pillaged what was "left" in the museum . . . say less than 10% of the museums original contents. Once US authorities arrive on the scene the question become who is in charge and what do they know. If they asked the wrong person (not privy to the stash the booty plan) we get a report that hundreds of thousands of items have been stolen. Later the US begins to float the idea that it might have been an inside job b/c the most important items were taken and possibly taken before the fall of Baghdad . . . hmmm. Eventually a knowledgeable person arrives and tells the US, "we stashed this stuff before it got bad . . . most of it is in the Bank or shelters . . . but everything that was left in the museum was taken."

The US version becomes, "majority of stolen artifacts found by US forces and returned to museum."

The take home is that the US was a day late and dollar short throughout the episode . . . akin to the gross lack of intelligence on WMD, Ba'ath activities, and the crappy state of Iraqi infrastructure. The Iraqis apparently did a great job (considering the conditions) protecting the majority of these treasures. Unfortunately, US authorities did a pitiful job protecting what was left.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN

Well you'll obviously never get it.
No. YOU obviously don't get it.

For the final time:

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said."

Why must you continually bombard us with these flawed rants? Whose payroll are you on? The Communist Party? Comedy Central? Some obscure leftwing extremist political wannabe?

No. I'm just an American excercising my right to free speech. And making a valid point.

Why would you think otherwise?
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Let me give this a whack:

A member of the Bush administration that was knowledgeable on such matters urged DOD to protect the museum . . . he probably said something like, "there are hundreds of thousands of priceless artifacts that must be protected." This same official subsequently resigned in protest of DOD in action.

On the ground in Iraq, knowledgeable curators thought to themselves, "when this goes down . . . these people are going to steal everything all the way down to the lightswitch . . . I bet the Iraqis might do it, too:D;)." Accordingly, they tried to secure as many pieces as possible . . . in places like shelters, the Bank, etc.

Of course the Bushies knew nothing of this b/c . . . they called every minister and military commander in Iraq but calling a museum in the cradle of civilization was not a priority.

After the regime was subdued . . . the "untidiness" began in earnest. The curators in Iraq again begged for protection and received none while looters pillaged what was "left" in the museum . . . say less than 10% of the museums original contents. Once US authorities arrive on the scene the question become who is in charge and what do they know. If they asked the wrong person (not privy to the stash the booty plan) we get a report that hundreds of thousands of items have been stolen. Later the US begins to float the idea that it might have been an inside job b/c the most important items were taken and possibly taken before the fall of Baghdad . . . hmmm. Eventually a knowledgeable person arrives and tells the US, "we stashed this stuff before it got bad . . . most of it is in the Bank or shelters . . . but everything that was left in the museum was taken."

The US version becomes, "majority of stolen artifacts found by US forces and returned to museum."

The take home is that the US was a day late and dollar short throughout the episode . . . akin to the gross lack of intelligence on WMD, Ba'ath activities, and the crappy state of Iraqi infrastructure. The Iraqis apparently did a great job (considering the conditions) protecting the majority of these treasures. Unfortunately, US authorities did a pitiful job protecting what was left.
Got that, burnedout? What he ^ said.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN

Well you'll obviously never get it.
No. YOU obviously don't get it.

For the final time:

"But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said."

Why must you continually bombard us with these flawed rants? Whose payroll are you on? The Communist Party? Comedy Central? Some obscure leftwing extremist political wannabe?

No. I'm just an American excercising my right to free speech. And making a valid point.

Why would you think otherwise?
A valid point? From your perspective. Freedom of speech doesnt apply to the internet.

BOBDN READ -> "But it is clear that the originally reported number of 170,000 (stolen artifacts) was simply wrong," he said."


 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN

Got that, burnedout? What he ^ said.
Wow Bob! Absolutely wonderful defense for your otherwise flawed argument. Where by chance did you acquire such persuasive rhetoric as "Got that, burnedout? What he ^ said"? Saturday morning cartoons, maybe?
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: BOBDN

Got that, burnedout? What he ^ said.
Wow Bob! Absolutely wonderful defense for your otherwise flawed argument. Where by chance did you acquire such persuasive rhetoric as "Got that, burnedout? What he ^ said"? Saturday morning cartoons, maybe?
When I typed:

"Got that, burnedout? What he ^ said"?

I thought I was putting it in terms even you could understand, burnedout.

Obviously even then I overestimated your intelligence.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Man... you guys get more worked up over a few artifacts than the lives of 24 million Iraqis and another couple of a million U.S. soldiers. Nice, real nice.
 

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