more nVidia immaturity - Auran® Bridge It game

[Creig]

I am seriously starting to think about never buying another nVidia product ever again. As if all the product overhype, driver cheats, screenshot tampering, performance excuses, developer blaming and paper launches weren't enough, NOW they're pushing developers to produce games that will run ONLY on nVidia hardware. Auran®, a software developer best known for their Trainz Railroad Simulator has just released (in conjuction with nVidia) a bridge designing game called Bridge It. This game has you designing bridges and then those designs are tested with various loads that they must withstand. Should the design hold you then move to a new level that has harder presets such as length, load, etc. that you must work with. All in all, it looks like a fun game that also can teach you something about applied structural analysis.

As a Civil Engineering Technician this seems like it would be a lot of fun so I went to the Auran website to download the demo and try it out. Everything was fine until I got to this little notice.

Bridge It requires an NVIDIA GeForce FX (or better) or an NVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti to run.

Not "recommends" but "REQUIRES". WHAT?!? As the owner of four various earlier GeForce cards and a modded ATI 9500 I couldn't believe that this company was making a game that would run on ONLY nVidia cards. The same 3D engine used in their Trainz game is used in the Bridge It game so I knew that this game COULD have been designed to run on any video card, not just nVidia's. So I went to their forums to see if anybody had posted the question I was burning to ask, WHY?!? Luckily for me, somebody had already beaten me to it and had received the following response from rD, a Forum Administrator:

Hi there

Yes, as r.p.heuts alluded to, this is not actually a technical fault as the program was designed to run only on NVIDIA cards. Specifically, the target hardware with the GeForce FX line of graphics cards (NV3x and better).

Auran and NVIDIA joined forces in this project to do some cross promotion and, obviously, NVIDIA's marketing required that NV3x be the target GPU. Don't hold this against Auran - Auran still works closely with ATI.. and Intel (for both graphics and CPU) and even with Matrox. That is, we work with all the hardware companies (and Microsoft and OpenGL.org) to be sure that our games look as good as possible on whatever combination of hardware you have. This is not an easy task but is certainly something that we pride ourselves on and will continue to do.

Bridge It is a great game but was always meant to be a cross promotion with NVIDIA - hence no ATI support. Rest assured though that all our other games (especially TRS2004) will be using the complete set of Auran Jet rendering libraries and will run beautifully on ATI, Intel, Matrox and, of course, NVIDIA.

As to whose product is "better" at the moment.. that is a very subjective decision. You need to look at the different needs of the consumer and whether they have a tight budget and whether the person will be playing DX8 or DX9 level games. Then, for a developer there are a large number of other considerations.

For those with the correct hardware, we really hope that you enjoy playing the game. We had a great time making it. As a technology team, it is not often the whole team gets to work on a game together. It was tremendous fun but also hard work and a terrific learning experience. The lessons learned with benefit all of Auran's other projects and, hopefully, make for more enjoyable play for you.

Andrew

This is COMPLETE BS!!!! You don't see Valve releasing Half-Life 2 as an "ATI cards only" game, do you? Is nVidia SO insecure about their hardware that they have to resort to making gaming publishers disable their games from running on competitors hardware? This is beyond stupid. If nVidia spent as much time on hardware design as they do damage control they wouldn't have anything to worry about in the first place!

Sorry nVidia, but I'm not spending money to purchase an inferior product no matter WHAT you do. If you EVER want to see my money, then make a top performing card at an affordable price. It's that simple. Just because you're pouting that you're not top dog anymore shouldn't mean you take your toys out of the sandbox so the other kids can't play with them. Now go stand in a corner until you're ready to play nice again.

 

[rbV5]

FAQ 'em.

 

[Schadenfroh]

welcome to GLIDE

 

[rbV5]

welcome to GLIDE

More like Glide UltraLite. They didn't just leave ATI out.

 

[Genx87]

A. Nobody forced the devs of this game to do this. Interesting how you are saying you will never buy an nvidia card again. Will you never guy a game made by these guys again?
B. It is a cross promotion with nvidia. And obviously part of the agreement is it runs only on Nvidia cards. Again nobody forced the devs into this. They obviously wanted to do this.
C. Outside of checking hardware IDs I am sure there will be a hack around to let it run on ATI cards for the most part

 

[Rage187]

OMFG cry more n00b!

 

[Zk1]

Just when i thouht nVidia couldent do anytging sleezier they find a way. Not that i care about this game, but still, this is even cheeper then something MicroSoft would do! now thats cheep...

im still buying a ATI 9800 pro/XT, no matter what sleezy tricks NV tries to pull.



P.S this was not a good day for spelling

 

[DefRef]

The PHONY outrage of ATI fans is pathetic. So eager are they to dance on Nvidia's grave, they latch onto any ridiculous rumour and declare that Nvida's done lost it. Have you guys lost all ability to think rationally?

1. Anyone old enough to remember when customized versions of MechWarrior 2 were rampant? I got a copies "optimized" for ATI and 3dfx cards when I bought cards.

2. Anyone remember the "3dfx only" demo for the original UT in Fall '99. It came a few weeks ahead of the general demo and if you didn't have a 3dfx card, you were azz out and they had logos all over the map. (However, if you placed a file - it could've been a blank Notepad file - with a certain name in a system folder, you could access the SW renderer.)

3. If a developer decides to limit itself to writing for a single video card, it's their choice. If they don't care if they kiss off and p*ss off potential customers, that's their choice. If Valve wanted to take the $6 million from ATI and code only for Radeon, that'd be their choice. Businesses that limit their market take a big risk, but it's the DEVELOPER'S choice.

Blaming Nvidia is just ATI Fanchimp trollage. Quit faking outrage against a company that you've already turned against.

 

[rbV5]

It is important to point out that largest userbase of Nvidia chipped cards is also left out.

 

[merlocka]

This is COMPLETE BS!!!! You don't see Valve releasing Half-Life 2 as an "ATI cards only" game, do you? Is nVidia SO insecure about their hardware that they have to resort to making gaming publishers disable their games from running on competitors hardware? This is beyond stupid. If nVidia spent as much time on hardware design as they do damage control they wouldn't have anything to worry about in the first place!

Sorry nVidia, but I'm not spending money to purchase an inferior product no matter WHAT you do. If you EVER want to see my money, then make a top performing card at an affordable price. It's that simple. Just because you're pouting that you're not top dog anymore shouldn't mean you take your toys out of the sandbox so the other kids can't play with them. Now go stand in a corner until you're ready to play nice again.

You are a complete moron.

Auran and NVIDIA joined forces in this project to do some cross promotion

Which means, nVidia paid Auran to do some development for this. Why on Gods earth would nVidia pay them to support non-nVidia cards?

Jesus H. Criminy, extract head from anus and take a breath of fresh air. This brand loyality crap is driving me nuts.

 

[Robor]

I honestly don't think there will be a big market for ATI or Nvidia only games/apps. It's not a good business decision to eliminate an entire market of video card owners.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: merlocka


You are a complete moron.

Don't hurt yourself coming up with such original insults.




If nVidia wants to prove their hardware is the best then this is NOT the way to go about it.


Me: Nice game!
nVidia: Yep! Looks great, doesn't it? This really showcases the power of the FX cards.
Me: Yeah! How much faster is it on your card than your competitor? How much better does it look on the FX?
nVidia: Well, actually we disabled it from running on all cards except ours.
Me: So.... How am I supposed to tell for sure that your card is the fastest with the best looking graphics if I can't run a comparison?
nVidia: Ummmmm.... You'll just have to take our word for it, I guess.


Right now I'm an ATI fan because I got the biggest bang for my buck along with good driver support (modded 9500). Before this I was a GeForce fan all the way back to the TNT2 days. I still have three GeForce cards in use on other machines. But you have to admit that nVidia seems to be really bumbling along these days with one thing after another.

 

[Rage187]

"It's not a good business decision to eliminate an entire market of video card owners."



/agree


Maybe the reason why there was the orignal delay for HL2.

 

[Genx87]

If nVidia wants to prove their hardware is the best then this is NOT the way to go about it.

Do you really think this was their motive? I have never even heard of this until today. How many review sites are going to be using this in their reviews?

You fanATIcs are hilarious. You cry over just about anything.

 

[DefRef]

Originally posted by: CreigIf nVidia wants to prove their hardware is the best then this is NOT the way to go about it.

Me: Nice game!
nVidia: Yep! Looks great, doesn't it? This really showcases the power of the FX cards.
Me: Yeah! How much faster is it on your card than your competitor? How much better does it look on the FX?
nVidia: Well, actually we disabled it from running on all cards except ours.
Me: So.... How am I supposed to tell for sure that your card is the fastest with the best looking graphics if I can't run a comparison?
nVidia: Ummmmm.... You'll just have to take our word for it, I guess.

Right now I'm an ATI fan because I got the biggest bang for my buck along with good driver support (modded 9500). Before this I was a GeForce fan all the way back to the TNT2 days. I still have three GeForce cards in use on other machines. But you have to admit that nVidia seems to be really bumbling along these days with one thing after another.

I love how people always use the "I have 74 Nvidia cards but they suck now and I love my 9x00!! ATI r0x0rZ!" line when they're in full Fanchimp mode, as if the disclaimer makes them non-chimps. Nowhere in the FAQ is SPEED mentioned as a criteria, just graphical bling-bling!

Once again, ATI Fanchimps yap on and on about things that aren't even said or even implied. If an ATI card edges an Nvidia card by .1 fps in a benchmark, they start howling that "Nvidia isn't even DX9 compliant!" Constantly blaming Nvidia for the DEVELOPER'S decisions just shows how little use for the truth Fanchimps have.

If ATI worked with a developer to specifically cripple certain cards, would you support that? Whoops! Already happened with HL2 and now they've got to stall 6 months to strip out all the ATI-specific code that the source theft revealed. BUSTED! Does Valve have to give the $6 million back?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: DefRef

Originally posted by: Creig
Once again, ATI Fanchimps yap on and on about things that aren't even said or even implied. If an ATI card edges an Nvidia card by .1 fps in a benchmark, they start howling that "Nvidia isn't even DX9 compliant!" Constantly blaming Nvidia for the DEVELOPER'S decisions just shows how little use for the truth Fanchimps have.

If ATI worked with a developer to specifically cripple certain cards, would you support that? Whoops! Already happened with HL2 and now they've got to stall 6 months to strip out all the ATI-specific code that the source theft revealed. BUSTED! Does Valve have to give the $6 million back?

Hey Spazzo, did you happen to get temporary tunnel vision? Bridge It will run ONLY on FX or 4200 cards. No ATI or Matrox or XGI or.... Nothing! Last I heard HL2 was going to run on ALL platforms. This is the first I've heard about ATI specific code in HL2, but I can guess that it's only optimizations for ATI hardware. But they're not keeping FX owners from playing, are they?

And to answer your question, no, I wouldn't support ATI's position if HL2 were released to ATI cards only. Whether you spend your money on an ATI card or nVidia card is irrelevent. Either should be able to enjoy playing the same game. Do you really think that nVidia FX owners wouldn't be upset at ATI if Valve WERE to release HL2 as ATI only?

 

[rbV5]

Already happened with HL2 and now they've got to stall 6 months to strip out all the ATI-specific code that the source theft revealed. BUSTED! Does Valve have to give the $6 million back?

Is that right? I'd like to check that out. Do you have a link?

 

[Creig]

Let's hypothetically expand on this situation:


ATI buys Half-Life 2 and encodes it to be ATI only.

nVidia buys Doom 3 and encodes it to be nVidia only.

Matrox buys Unreal Tournament 2004 and encodes it to be Matrox only.

XGI buys Max Payne 2 and encodes it to be XGI only.

Bitboys buy Babylon 5:Into the Fire and encode it to be Bitboys only. Oh wait, they've already done that.




So now if I want to play HL2, D3, UT2004 and MP2 I have to buy four separate video cards and install/uninstall them each time I want to play. The whole point of DirectX is universal compatibility. If a hardware developer adheres to the DirectX standard, all games encoded with DirectX should run just fine. nVidia is actively trying to defeat this by using their own "FX extensions". This spells nothing but trouble for end users.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It's not likely many of us non-engineering types will play those type of sims/games, so they are alienating half of the few thousand people who will, BFD Seriously, If it were a game title with a big fan base then I'd be in your camp, but this is clearly a very small niche market product. Now, I'm being facetious when I say a few thousand but it wouldn't surprise me if that's fairly accurate

 

[WicKeD]

<sarcasm>

And I am never buying another operating system from Microsoft because it will not work on my Apple

</sarcasm>

Stop your whining n00b.

 

[rbV5]

Let's hypothetically expand on this situation:

Or the scenerio where Nvidia wants to show off CG, so it contracts a developer to create a showcase for its technology. They direct the developer to Optimise for its FX line, and for comparison port it to their excellent prior gen offering to show the differences in a controlled way over a technology that carries a deserved reputation of excellence (ti4200), but not compromise it by throwing poor performing MX models into the fray . This could show potential developers that CG is a worth the effort without throwing in alot of variable with other cards in the mix.

 

[Nebor]

I don't see a problem with it... And realistically, the best way to sell your hardware is to have your hardware do things that other's can't. I mean, compared to doing a little better at the same task, it's far more impressive to do something that they can't do at all. I don't really see a problem with it. It might hurt that developer, but it certainly won't hurt NVIDIA. It'd be neat if nvidia bought a couple of game developers and made their own series of games. Because if they made a couple GREAT games that would ONLY run on nvidia hardware, you can damn well bet more people would buy NVIDIA hardware.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I don't see a problem with it... And realistically, the best way to sell your hardware is to have your hardware do things that other's can't. I mean, compared to doing a little better at the same task, it's far more impressive to do something that they can't do at all. I don't really see a problem with it. It might hurt that developer, but it certainly won't hurt NVIDIA. It'd be neat if nvidia bought a couple of game developers and made their own series of games. Because if they made a couple GREAT games that would ONLY run on nvidia hardware, you can damn well bet more people would buy NVIDIA hardware.

And then we'd be right back to the days of Glide vs DirectX vs OpenGL vs MeTaL vs ...... And we'd have the exact situation I described above where you'd need 4 different video cards to play 4 different games. Is that a situation we really want to see develop?

 

[rbV5]

It'd be neat if nvidia bought a couple of game developers and made their own series of games. Because if they made a couple GREAT games that would ONLY run on nvidia hardware, you can damn well bet more people would buy NVIDIA hardware.

You can get XBOX for that...right?

 

[jiffylube1024]

Well I'll have no part in this stupid debate. If anyone posts anything with the word Nvidia or ATI in these forums now, he's instant flaim-bait. What ever happened to intelligent discussion?