More N.K. Retorhic: N Korea threatens truce breach

[KenGr]

Originally posted by: Fencer128
??? Sorry - I must be thick today because I don't get it.

EDIT: Ahhhh. Now I do, so the N. Koreans are the knight - (or the dog with no teeth maybe?) - Excepting of course the millions strong army and the nuclear devices they own.

Andy

Right, they have a million in the army but a half million in concentration camps and as many as 2 million have starved in recent years. They have from one to 10 nuclear weapons but they have never tested one. They have a long range missile which has never been tested. And they are saying they are going to kick our ass. That's what's funny. They are dangerous but only because they are in some fantasy world.

 

[Fencer128]

what is this country supposed to do?

I'm not saying that the U.S./whoever would not retatiate/destroy N. Korea if they started a conflict. My whole arguement is not concerned about what the U.S. would do. That is obvious if you've read all my posts.

The whole point/thrust of my posts is that the description presented above (here I go again):

What problem? They will be dealt with in time, they are simply having a temper tantrum currently because we refuse to acknowledge them. If they initiate a war then they will be DEAD. Although they have a large millitary their equipment is massively outdated, 37,000 US troops and the 600,000 south korean millitary should be able to stop them. If they choose action it's an endgame scenario for north korea. The divide will be sealed and Korea will be united again under the guidance of the south.

Is simplistic, misses out the fact that 1,000,000's may die and makes itself sound like "we're technologically advanced so we'll obviously win the war - no problem". It smacks of a slight arrogance.

And it starts with

"They will be dealt with in time", like you want to go and start a war over there!!! (the rest of the paragraph says to me that dealt means war and not any other means).

And finally it ends with

"The divide will be sealed and Korea will be united again under the guidance of the south." Who says? That's anyone's guess. The last time a U.S. supported southern regime took on a communist north regime it did not work out. And technology was in the U.S.'s favour.

To understand all the consequences of our actions, however necessary (in the case of an agressive N. Korea for example) we're best presenting arguements/scenarios that contain more than just "we'll easily win".

Andy

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: KenGr

Originally posted by: Fencer128
??? Sorry - I must be thick today because I don't get it.

EDIT: Ahhhh. Now I do, so the N. Koreans are the knight - (or the dog with no teeth maybe?) - Excepting of course the millions strong army and the nuclear devices they own.

Andy

Right, they have a million in the army but a half million in concentration camps and as many as 2 million have starved in recent years. They have from one to 10 nuclear weapons but they have never tested one. They have a long range missile which has never been tested. And they are saying they are going to kick our ass. That's what's funny. They are dangerous but only because they are in some fantasy world.

A starving populace is a dangerous one - unpredictable, violent, and uncontrollable; that works to no ones favor.

 

[Fencer128]

Right, they have a million in the army but a half million in concentration camps and as many as 2 million have starved in recent years. They have from one to 10 nuclear weapons but they have never tested one. They have a long range missile which has never been tested. And they are saying they are going to kick our ass. That's what's funny. They are dangerous but only because they are in some fantasy world.

According to the cia world factbook, they currently have around 3.6 million people they could draw on for an army.

I wouldn't like to bet my life that they don't have a nuclear device. Even a small one/dirty one would be bad enough.

There's nothing remotely "funny" said above. If there was a war and the U.S. won, there would surely be heavy casualties.

If they're not dangerous why do over 600,000 troops defend the DMZ?

It depends on what you call dangerous. I'd definately call them dangerous, maybe not as dangerous as other nations, when compared, but still a whole country of people with guns and bombs who could use them!

Andy

 

[BaDaBooM]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Fencer128
Hi,

What problem? They will be dealt with in time, they are simply having a temper tantrum currently because we refuse to acknowledge them. If they initiate a war then they will be DEAD. Although they have a large millitary their equipment is massively outdated, 37,000 US troops and the 600,000 south korean millitary should be able to stop them. If they choose action it's an endgame scenario for north korea. The divide will be sealed and Korea will be united again under the guidance of the south.

Unless they detonate a nuclear device. Not so simple then. Never is as simple as you lay out above. Nor is it as easy as you make it sound.

Its easy to be an advocate of war if your not doing the fighting, or if you think you're "technologically superior" to the enemy.

Please don't fall into the trap of oversimplifying these tremendously important issues. An apparently simple arguement is usually a good catalyst for popular support for a costly war. The last time a communist regime was tackled in a North/South conflict, the result helped nobody - least of all the inhabitants of that country.

Andy

This is foolish. You've just boiled down reasons to show concern into the most simplistic of scare tactics. If NK were to launch a nuke then the response becomes the simplest of all: complete destruction of their government and military. Even barring the ridiculous proposition of NK launching a nuke, if NK were to engage in open hostilities China would be forced to squash them immediately or if that option is not palatable, choose from amongst its interests and allow the US to seek a military solution. In both cases, NK is on the short end of the stick.

I don't think China would squash them. They supported NK back in the Korean War. That's why McArthur was force to pull back and give back land they had taken. They were seeing Chinese soldiers. China has also have been supporting them ever since. Recently they have been talking out one side of their mouth to the western world and supporting NK on the other. They do with NK as Sadam does with terrorists. I would say it is more likely they would join NK than squash them. But that's just my opinion.

 

[FenrisUlf]

Originally posted by: BaDaBooM

I don't think China would squash them. They supported NK back in the Korean War. That's why McArthur was force to pull back and give back land they had taken. They were seeing Chinese soldiers. China has also have been supporting them ever since. Recently they have been talking out one side of their mouth to the western world and supporting NK on the other. They do with NK as Sadam does with terrorists. I would say it is more likely they would join NK than squash them. But that's just my opinion.

The situation now is different than in the 50's. China has a great deal of economic interest in South Korea and almost none in North Korea. China has to continuously monitor it's border with NK for starving refugees fleeing into China. China has changed from a hard-core Communist regeime to more of an authoritarian capitalistic society. NK has gone from Communism to a recluse dictatorship. There is very little philosophical sympathy. If NK started anything, China would opt out of it's mutual self-defense treaty with NK because they would be the agressors, not on the defense. China has too much of a vested interest in economics and world trade to risk it on helping a pariah state that it sees as a problem anyway.

The war would be UGLY. Neither side would win, it's just that NK would lose more. The South Koreans are good fighters - they had an excellent record in Vietnam. They are also well equipped, have prepared defenses, and would tenaciously defend their territory. NK has lots of men, but this also makes the logistics more difficult. A war would probably end up as a months long meat grinder in the urban terrain surrounding Seoul until the NK forces exhausted themselves and the second wave of UN/US troops arrived. At this time a counterattack would be launched using the greater mobility of modern mechanized units to move quickly into North Korea and seize critical areas. Death tolls would be in the millions, both countries and economies would be severely damaged, and it would take decades to recover and re-integrate NK into SK. There is no doubt that NK is unable to win - urban warfare significantly favors the defender and they lack the mobility to move quickly around Seoul (an enormous city that sits on one of the main paths of easy movement south) or down the few other paths south that offer easy movement.

 

[BaDaBooM]

Yea, I know all that. Yet they still give them all sorts of help today. I just know how China likes to play both sides and I think they like NK much more than they like the US (US basically the power keeping SK around). I think they might put on a good face, but then also give NK all sorts of military support under the table. I hope you are right though.