More Liberal Totalitarianism - New Smoking age in NYC -21

[Jaskalas]

I'd be open to the argument that people could be considered minors until age 21. (or if you wanted to go for when the brain finishes developing, 25?) I doubt our society is going to go for that, though.

Regardless of what age we choose, the ability to smoke and drink should certainly coincide with the ability to sign yourself up to be shot to death.

:thumbsup: Here we agree.

Which puts NYC at odds with bipartisan liberty.

 

[michal1980]

Fair point. So what basis do you have for calling him a hypocrite? Has he declared himself to be a poster boy for liberalism?

The left is always yelling about how we can't tell people what they do with their own bodies. He's part of that.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Illegal to smoke pot? Of course! Drinking age 21? Ok... Smoking age 21?! LIBERAL TOLATALIALISM!

 

[mikeymikec]

The left is always yelling about how we can't tell people what they do with their own bodies. He's part of that.

So you lump peoples' opinions into two groups, "the left" or "the right", and if they don't fit your perception of which group they go into, they're a hypocrite?

To pick your apparent example from your OP, you expect people who support the right to abort to all have the same opinion on that topic (eg. what circumstances in which that right should be available, whether there should be specific circumstances or not, or what number of weeks, etc), and then on a very different topic such as smoking, they're all going to share an identical opinion again?

Do you actually have any first-hand experience of humanity that adheres to your apparent understanding of humans?

Or is your understanding of liberalism so limited that you believe that all 'liberals' believe (or should believe) that people should be able to do whatever they like, no exceptions?

 

[sunzt]

smoking = effects kill others
abortion = effects limited to body/baby

 

[rudder]

smoking = effects kill others
abortion = effects limited to body/baby

So a baby is just a body part? There are a lot of activities that can have the effect of killing others. Unprotected sex? BANNED (HIV transmission). Oral sex? BANNED (HPV can cause throat cancer), Drinking Alcohol? BANNED until you are too old to drive.

Should we legislate people's lives down to what is eaten for breakfast or not?

 

[fskimospy]

So a baby is just a body part? There are a lot of activities that can have the effect of killing others. Unprotected sex? BANNED (HIV transmission). Oral sex? BANNED (HPV can cause throat cancer), Drinking Alcohol? BANNED until you are too old to drive.

Should we legislate people's lives down to what is eaten for breakfast or not?

The first two are consensual acts between adults (unlike secondhand smoking).

For the last one, drinking and driving is largely banned.

 

[piasabird]

The Logical Reasoning part of your brain does not mature till about 25 in men. Remember that? You cant buy a large soda but you can buy a gallon of Ice Cream!

 

[Newell Steamer]

So a baby is just a body part? There are a lot of activities that can have the effect of killing others. Unprotected sex? BANNED (HIV transmission). Oral sex? BANNED (HPV can cause throat cancer), Drinking Alcohol? BANNED until you are too old to drive.

Should we legislate people's lives down to what is eaten for breakfast or not?

Why not?

Sodomy laws and banning same sex marriage was deemed as the government's duty - go for broke; lets also work on the whole impure thoughts business as well.

 

[rudder]

The first two are consensual acts between adults (unlike secondhand smoking).

For the last one, drinking and driving is largely banned.

Is second hand smoke really any issue any more? I would think your average New Yorker would suck in more pollutants from all the cars going up and down the street.

And do 18 years olds smoke inside more than someone who is 21?

 

[Newell Steamer]

Is second hand smoke really any issue any more? I would think your average New Yorker would suck in more pollutants from all the cars going up and down the street.

And do 18 years olds smoke inside more than someone who is 21?

I don't know, care, whatever.

It comes down to this; do you or do you not want the government involved in people's personal lives?

If the answer involves the words depends or some exceptions, there isn't anything more I can say to that, since I have yet to figure out what the proper direction and rule of thumb is.

People keep calling to the government, over things that I would assume to be considered intrusive,.. yet, nope, they are not.

And, the things I would not consider intrusive,.. are.

So, there doesn't seem to be anything, that I can wrap my head around, which clearly guides people (and even the government) to what is and isn't intrusive or over reaching; it seems to depend on which direction the wind is blowing, frankly.

 

[fskimospy]

Is second hand smoke really any issue any more? I would think your average New Yorker would suck in more pollutants from all the cars going up and down the street.

And do 18 years olds smoke inside more than someone who is 21?

I think we would all agree that cars generally serve a useful purpose for society. Cigarette smoking is entirely recreational. Also, NYC generates some of the lowest levels of air pollution per capita in the US, so if anything I'd say that we're ahead of the game in that respect.

 

[Whiskey16]

So a baby is just a body part? There are a lot of activities that can have the effect of killing others. Unprotected sex? BANNED (HIV transmission). Oral sex? BANNED (HPV can cause throat cancer), Drinking Alcohol? BANNED until you are too old to drive.

Should we legislate people's lives down to what is eaten for breakfast or not?

The bringing of abortion into such a topic is stupid non-sequitur. That is legal medical procedure at the choice of the pregnant woman.

Cigarettes are consumed as a greatly addictive and toxic good. Notably with a long history of predatory and dishonest marketing of that addictive substance to retain the market. The expansion of the market is through entering new and unregulated jurisdictions to expand at greater rates, and in regions where the very real and validated ill-health effects are accepted thereby regulating the product, the vitality of the market's expansion is by hooking consuming addicts at a lower age, thereby lengthening the time that they will be retained as consumers.

This is not simply a privacy and individual issue. States face a greater burden upon their social and economic structures where cigarette clients (addicts) are hooked at younger and for more prolonged periods, leading to greater ill-health effects.

Raising the age for sale to classified minors of cigarettes not only can reduce the number of addicts in that more vulnerable (detrimental effects to a still growing body and a market more susceptible to such sales) age bracket, but can decrease the detrimental toxic effects of the regular consumption of such a reasonably controlled product.

Outlawed? No. It's a controlled good. As is common here -- too much hyperbole.... Extremisms of all or nothing through to inane relations to the likes of abortions..... DUMB.

 

[Jaskalas]

This is not simply a privacy and individual issue. States face a greater burden upon their social and economic structures where sugar clients (addicts) are hooked at younger and for more prolonged periods, leading to greater ill-health effects.

FIFY!

Citing health costs and societal burden literally means that _every _SINGLE_ choice_ you make in your life may be dictated.

 

[Whiskey16]

FIFY!

Citing health costs and societal burden literally means that _every _SINGLE_ choice_ you make in your life may be dictated.

Keep up the abusive hyperbole.

What sugars Jaskalas? An all or nothing argumentation of stupidity?

Unreasonable and stupid.

The simple ingestion of toxic tobacco to appease nicotine addiction may not be reasonably comparable to various types of sugar in food products.

 

[rudder]

The bringing of abortion into such a topic is stupid non-sequitur. That is legal medical procedure at the choice of the pregnant woman.

Cigarettes are consumed as a greatly addictive and toxic good. Notably with a long history of predatory and dishonest marketing of that addictive substance to retain the market. The expansion of the market is through entering new and unregulated jurisdictions to expand at greater rates, and in regions where the very real and validated ill-health effects are accepted thereby regulating the product, the vitality of the market's expansion is by hooking consuming addicts at a lower age, thereby lengthening the time that they will be retained as consumers.

This is not simply a privacy and individual issue. States face a greater burden upon their social and economic structures where cigarette clients (addicts) are hooked at younger and for more prolonged periods, leading to greater ill-health effects.

Raising the age for sale to classified minors of cigarettes not only can reduce the number of addicts in that more vulnerable (detrimental effects to a still growing body and a market more susceptible to such sales) age bracket, but can decrease the detrimental toxic effects of the regular consumption of such a reasonably controlled product.

Outlawed? No. It's a controlled good. As is common here -- too much hyperbole.... Extremisms of all or nothing through to inane relations to the likes of abortions..... DUMB.

Go yell at your liberal buddy for bringing abortion into this thread then. The crux of the issue is personal responsibility. Why stop at cigarettes... alcohol has a bad effects on peoples health (not to mention the people killed by drunk drivers). So why stop at cigarettes?

There has to be some point in your life where you can break yourself free of government oversight. Prohibition did not work with alcohol. 18 years still drive drunk. How about we go back to square one and study this wonderful little idea of personal responsibility. You can legislate crap all day long but at the end of the day people who want the government to control all aspects of their lives will not have any better quality of life. Free yourself. Teach your kids personal responsibility and live your life responsibly. Screw it. I am going out drinking tonight instead of taking that extra $200 and putting it in savings. The government will handle my retirement right?

 

[mikeymikec]

Go yell at your liberal buddy for bringing abortion into this thread then.

Re-read the OP.

 

[TheSiege]

Utah is the reddest state in the nation. Their age to buy tobacco products is 19...

 

[Whiskey16]

Prohibition did not work with alcohol.

Do you read?

You missed the OP... Just before that statement of yours you quoted me, and yet inexcusably went with incredibly inane argumentative step of presenting a notably dumb and deranged all-or-nothing hyperbolic stance....

I'll remind of what I wrote and you quoted me:

Outlawed? No. It's a controlled good. As is common here -- too much hyperbole.... Extremisms of all or nothing through to inane relations to the likes of abortions..... DUMB.

Prohibition? No. Regulation of a controlled substance. 18 years old in what you must define as your totalitarian Tennessee.:

TDA Works with Retailers to Prevent Youth Access to Tobacco

The Tennessee Department of Agriculture (TDA) is charged with enforcing the Prevention of Youth Access to Tobacco Law. Passed in 1994, its purpose is to prevent persons under the age of 18 years from purchasing tobacco products, including electronic cigarettes. Currently, there are more than 6,000 retail outlets that offer tobacco products for sale in Tennessee.

Retailers offering tobacco products for sale must display required signage at the point of sale; offer tobacco products in their original, sealed packages; provide continuous supervision; lock or require tokens to purchase tobacco products from vending machines (please note that current federal requirements prohibit any “self-service” type of tobacco sales); and must only offer tobacco products to persons over the age of eighteen years.