More important: Good receiver or good speakers?

[Claudius-07]

I need to upgrade my Home Theatre system. I currently already have a top end"ish" centre channel speaker and subwoofer which I did a lot of research on and bought when I could afford/sale etc.

Currently I am thinking of purchasing either the Onkyo 607 or the Onkyo 707 or if there is a better deal then the Pioneer 1910 -- having at least 5 HDMI in is my goal -- I FREAKING hate moving stuff around or having to use anything other than HDMI. Now the question of which receiver is not necessarily my priority as much as.... should I just spend the "bulk" on a better receiver or GOOD speakers first (want total for a 7.1 system, so again have the centre and have the sub... so need the 6 others).

Does the receiver make all the difference or do the speakers make more of an impact. Since I need to decide which I will spend a crap load on... do I get a mid low range receiver that supports 7.1 (seems there are crap load at BestBuy or online or Futureshop etc.,) and then find really really good speakers?

I am actually confused even asking this question since I am not even sure what "good" speakers are. Just cause they cost $1000 might not mean they are better than say a $500 one. There seems to be deals all the time. I see these massive towers. Do I need 6 massive towers? Can I get away with a great receiver and then small satellite speakers if I have a good centre and a good subwoofer?

I rearely if EVER listen to music. Satellite radio is on news/talk/sports only. However my life revolves around Blu Ray movies and the best possible quality in sound and video.

What would you suggest? All the beans on a receiver or all the beans on speakers or 50/50?

 

[alcoholbob]

Depends how loud you play. If you are blasting action movies maniacally you need to address your amplification issue first. I think you can get an Onkyo 806 for around $550, which provides 130W/channel to 7 channels. Also has 5 hdmi inputs (most receivers only have 3).

If your interest is primarily HT you want to look for speakers with high sensitivity, which typically are floorstanders with a lot of drivers.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

What center channel and subwoofer do you have now?

For a good home theater experience, those are probably the two most important speakers.

A few years ago, I would have said "put the majority of the budget into speakers" without question, but new auto-equalization technology has really impressed me.

It looks like all the receivers you're considering are going to have some version of Audyssey room correction in them though, which is good. I've only used the MultEQ (XT ) version of Audyssey personally (with very good results), but I don't have personal experience in how the lesser implementations of Audyssey hold up.

(So if your budget put you in a situation where you'd have to choose between a receiver without room equalization or one with room equalization, that's where the recommendation to spend more on speakers at the expense of getting a receiver with room equalization would be a tough decision)

Is your question something along the lines of

$500 receiver + $1000 for 6 speakers
OR
$1000 receiver + $500 for 6 speakers?

$500 for a receiver can get you a pretty good one which would likely do everything you need it to.

 

[kalrith]

What speakers do you currently have? You want your front 3 to be timbre-matched, which means not only the same brand but also the same product line. If your center channel really is good and you can find mains to match it, then that would be the way to go; otherwise, you'll want a new front 3. As far as individual recommendations, there are several threads in this forum regarding that, but it largely comes down to personal taste. Some will recommend Klipsch speakers, and others will say that they hate the way Klipsch sounds; however, they're both telling the truth. If you're going to drop a lot of money on speakers, then auditioning them is a great deal.

Also, what's your total budget, and do you want to buy everything right now or can you piece things together as you go along?

Good speakers trump a good receiver. Recommendations for both come down to your answers to the above questions.

I will say that there's no point in limiting yourself to receivers that have 5 HDMI ports when you $30 on an HDMI switch and easily make 2 HDMI inputs into 5. Pick up a universal remote (if you don't have one already), and once you get things set up, it will control the switch for you.

 

[vi edit]

It's hard to say without knowing total budgets. I think that a receiver should only account for about 1/4 to 1/3 of your system cost. Otherwise I think you are spending too little on the least upgraded item in your room.

Speakers can last for 10 years. With the way technology is advancing receivers are outdated in 3.

 

[BoberFett]

Speakers will make a bigger impact. At some point there are diminishing returns on what more money towards the receiver will change. Audiophiles that think the volume knob makes a difference would disagree, but they're borderline retarded.

Speakers on the other hand... Put the same set of speakers on different receivers and they'll sound similar. Put different speakers on the same receiver and the sound changes from one set to another.

My personal plan is to spend $500 on a receiver and $1500 on the speakers.

 

[kornphlake]

What do you really want, if you want the best sound quality I'd say without a doubt spend more on speakers, if you want convenience a receiver with more features would be better. I don't think there's a right answer. I'm a music guy more than an AV guy so I'd put money into speakers personally.

 

[s44]

Depends on your room size, etc -- in a larger space you'll want some real juice to drive the speakers, and Onkyo will stomp non-ICE Pioneer. Note that the Onkyo 707 is a *big* jump in room/speaker correction over the 607 (MultEQ vs. 2EQ -- Yoyo, incidentally, actually had the even more advanced MultEQ XT). It also comes with a full set of pre-outs, so you can go to a separate amp if you need more power.

In a smaller space I'd look at the Denon 790/1910 (the 590/1610 is a steal, but only 5.1), which offers MultEQ at a lower price point than the 707. Fewer watts and no pre-outs though.

 

[kalrith]

My personal plan is to spend $500 on a receiver and $1500 on the speakers.

That's close to what I would do as well. If I had the money, I'd spend about $350 on the Denon 2308 receiver and $1,300 on the ELT525s + MFW15. Unfortunately, if I did have that money, it would probably go towards weight-lifting equipment and a riding lawn mower

 

[s44]

I think you can get an Onkyo 806 for around $550

Yup, as long as refurb is OK.

Also they have a 706 for $430, but I forgot about the 5 HDMI thing.

 

[vi edit]

As far as receivers go, you can grab an Onkyo RC-180 (essentially an NR807) from 6th Ave for around $620. That's the best value out there IMHO if you want to go a step up from entry level.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Speakers....get the best set you can afford, and they'll last you through a bunch of different receivers.

 

[Thump553]

I still go by the old hi-fi adage-put the money into the speakers. It's quite easy (and common) for good quality speakers to last 10-20 years. Receiver technology, OTOH, becomes outdated almost as fast as computer technology-a five year old receiver, is in all likelihood, a worthless dinosaur no matter how much you paid for it.

That said, it still is important to match your center to your front speakers.

 

[ericlp]

you can't have one with out the other.... Sadly.

If I had to set someone up on a budget I'd say pool your money into decent speakers and buy a cheap amp. Then when you get enough mooola together buy a better amp!

Good luck.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

We need to know what your current center is, OP. If you truely have a really expensive center, it'll be very costly to timber match it, which will factor into your available choices.

 

[Howard]

Timbre or tonal matching centers to the rest of the speakers is something I don't espouse, because many manufacturers don't get centers right at all. If you have small audiences that tend to sit on center, try speakers without a center first and then see if you think you're missing anything.

 

[Claudius-07]

Hi folks. Thanks for all the replies. The Subwoofer is a Polk Audio DSW 600. The center channel is a Polk LSiC. Ok so not the TOP of the top but for what I paid for them they truly do the job well.

Now.. THANK YOU for the idea on the Onkyo RC-180. You have no idea how much I jumped when i saw that, considering that I was going to spend well over $800 here in Canada for the freaking 607!! I mean WOW. WOW. WOW. I just can't believe how much we are getting hosed here. Anyhow just gotta get it shipped to the UPS store accross the border from me, since most US places wont ship to Canada and even if they do, the shipping is nuts. I can drive to the UPS store and pick it up in 45 minutes.

That solves that. The receiver is good as mine. Thanks again.

Thus just leaves the speakers -- not sure if I have to go Polk at this point. I currently have a mismatch of 6 speakers. The front two are polk R300 which were cheap cheap cheap. Since I paid $89 for the pair I was happy at the time. The rear 4 are ancient... I mean old old no name boxes that my grandparents had around and I am not joking. I have no idea what they are to be honest -- like from Sears or from a Candle or something 100 years ago.

 

[Koing]

Speakers > receiver

Koing

 

[kalrith]

What's your total budget for the speakers and receivers? I would recommend moving your R300 to be used as surrounds (you can always upgrade them later) and either buying two Polk LSi mains or a new front 3. Those 3 have to timbre match, or they won't blend well together. It doesn't matter if your surrounds and your sub match your front 3, but obviously you want pairs of surrounds to match.

It looks like the LSi9, LSi15, and LSi25 would all be a good match for your LSiC. The LSi9 is a bookshelf, and the other two are floorstanders. I wouldn't recommend the LSi7 as it only has one mid/woofer compared to two on your center, so your center might overpower your mains.

Polk's website has some good FS forums. For example, you can pick up a pair of LSi9 for $475 + shipping here, and he's selling some decent speaker stands as well. That plus the Onkyo receiver would be a huge jump to your setup. I'm not sure if you could do better for ~$525 if you purchased a new front 3. For comparison 6ave sells the LSi9 for $999 shipped.

If you wanted the floorstanders, then those get a bit more pricey. I saw $750 for the LSi15 and $1,200 for the LSi25, and shipping would be a LOT more as well.

 

[vi edit]

Be careful with the LSi series. They are 4 ohm speakers I think they are relatively inneficient. It'll put a A LOT of stress on your receiver to drive them. So if you go that route be certain that your receiver is rated for that low of an impedence. But really, you should probably look at an external amp to drive them safely. Onkyo's get hot under normal loads, trying to drive those speakers will result in your own space heater.

 

[alcoholbob]

Onkyo's get hot because they are seriously heavy duty amplifiers. 130W/channel. S&V verified that it maintained this power level at 0.01% THD and hit 144W/channel at 1% THD. The 806 amp is a 60lb beast. You don't get this kind of power from any other brand under $1k.

It also uses high quality DACs--the Burr Brown PCM1796, the second best DAC BB makes, and higher quality than competiting receivers in this price class.

It can overheat if you do the typical "component stacking" in a tiny wood stand. As long as it's out in the open or at the top of a component stack and heat evaporation is unimpeded you can keep it on all day. This thing will DRIVE speakers if you want more output and capability to handle greater transients without clipping.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I believe that there's some major current limiting going on when you switch the Onkyo units into 4-ohm mode, is this correct?

 

[alcoholbob]

I believe that there's some major current limiting going on when you switch the Onkyo units into 4-ohm mode, is this correct?

Yes they had to include that mode apparently to pass some sort of regulatory test and significantly recommend you do not run it in that mode. It reduces output to a fixed 36W/channel at any impedance level at 4 ohm mode and warn it can cause irreparable damage to speakers if you drive it hard especially with classical music. Default is in 6ohm mode which runs everything to system spec.

The whole naming scheme is a misnomer unfortunately and 6 ohm mode should be used to drive all speaker types.

The Lsi series do present a slightly heavier load at the bass range (40-80hz) so a subwoofer would be optimal if you plan on blasting these speakers, but at normal listening levels it should make no difference.

 

[Claudius-07]

With a big thanks and huge appreciation to vi edit, I went ahead and ordered the Onkyo RC-180. That is a done deal. I am now a bit worried about the LSi series. At this point I dropped the mother-load on the receiver but I am all ears on the speakers. Seems folks think I can keep the Polk R300 for the rear surround in the back (thank you Kalrith). If I might hassle and beg once again, if not the LSi, what should I be thinking of in the same price range for the front?

Obviously folks on this forum are light years ahead on me on issues and details... so much so that I am sitting back and taking notice. I don't want to jump on anything right now but I hate to pump this post up again when folks have already given so much of their time.

Given this, and how much i have now saved buying the RC-180 online and in the States, and since I can easily swing a new set of speakers... if not the LSi, then what? or ok with the LSi for the front? I am still confused... what is/are the most important speakers in the setup? I mean if someone tells me that the two front matter most and go for it, I don't mind spending $500-600 each just for the front. The two rear are taken care off and I can surely find a 2 more to round off the 7.1 system

 

[s44]

The LSi9 is one of the best-regarded Polks out there, so if you like your current center I wouldn't worry too much.

edit -- incidentally, in a 5.1 the extra 2 are side/slightly rear channels. Full rears only come into play in a 7.1, but given that the 807 has Audyssey width/height options, you may find one of those a better use of extra speakers.