More immigrants = less crime

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Here's my ham-fisted approach to summarizing the article linked to below: New immigrants feel alienated from their surroundings and are thus inclined to watch their children like hawks. This keeps the first generation of immigrants in line, but we then trend back towards the mean afterwards as their children integrate better into the community.

The Walrus - Arrival of the Fittest

An international survey of public attitudes about immigration published in 2009 found that while Canadians have positive feelings overall about immigrants, more than half blame illegal migrants for driving up crime.

What few have bothered to ask is whether there’s any merit to this belief. There have certainly been signs that they should. In Arizona, where a new law makes the failure to carry immigration documents a crime and gives the police broad powers to detain anyone suspected of being in the country illegally — an infraction sometimes called “walking while Hispanic” — crime levels have actually dropped with the concurrent influx of Mexicans.

In fact, the violence of Mexico’s drug war doesn’t seem to have travelled north with immigrants: crime rates in US towns along the country’s 3,200-kilometre southern border are down. In Canada, an overall drop in crime has paralleled the upsurge in non-European immigration since Pierre Trudeau championed multiculturalism in the 1970s. Half of Toronto’s population now consists of those born outside Canada; notably, the city’s crime rate has dropped by 50 percent since 1991, and is significantly lower than that of the country as a whole.

Could it be that immigrants are making us all safer?

When the violent crime rate in the US began to fall, sharply and consistently, in the 1990s, a handful of criminologists and sociologists there started investigating a possible connection to the rising tide of immigration. Two early studies that tracked crime in dozens of metropolitan areas discovered that cities with the highest increase in immigration also had the largest decrease in violent crime; there was possibly a causal relationship, but it wasn’t clear what it was. One of the first researchers to begin to connect the dots was Harvard sociologist Robert J. Sampson.

About a decade ago, he and his colleagues looked at violent acts committed over an eight-year period by some 3,000 men and women in 180 neighbourhoods in Chicago, a diverse city with a considerable population of Hispanic immigrants. What they found was that Mexican Americans were far less likely to be violent than African Americans or whites. When all variables were accounted for it became clear that this was in large part because a quarter of the subjects were born outside the US and more than half lived in communities where the majority of residents were also of Mexican heritage.

Overall, first generation immigrants of any background were 45 percent less likely to commit violent acts than third generation Americans, and living in a neighbourhood with a large concentration of immigrants of any nationality was associated with lower levels of violence. In a nutshell, immigration protected these Chicago communities against violent behaviour.

...

Also, as Sampson had discovered, the disinclination to commit crime extended across all nationalities; it didn’t matter whether a teenager’s family was from India or Trinidad or China. Specific cultural values were not at play; nor could behaviour be chalked up to a given ethnic group’s parenting style (sorry, Tiger Moms). “[The model minority] has been a fetish of a lot of the media,” Dinovitzer says. “They want to focus on the good Korean kids, or some other group. Our study unequivocally shows there’s no difference between these immigrant groups.”

However, second generation immigrant kids (defined in this study as having been born in Canada or at least having arrived here before age six) were more likely than first generation immigrants (having arrived past the age of twelve) to get into fights, take drugs, vandalize, or steal. In other words, the newer the immigrant, the better behaved he or she was.

The U of T study, which was published in 2009, shortly after Sampson’s findings, has done a great deal to validate the theory that immigration decreases crime. And the case is only getting stronger: Statistics Canada has now released findings from a spatial analysis of crime data in Canadian cities that suggest the percentage of recent immigrants in various regions of Toronto and Montreal is inversely proportional to all types of violent crime; in the latter case, it concluded that while various socio-economic factors increase crime, “the proportion of recent immigrants lowers the violent crime rate; it acts as a protective factor.”

But that’s not the end of the matter. Noting the discrepancy between the stereotypes about immigrants and the data coming out of the research, Levi says, “It’s very uplifting to have a story that says it’s different from what we previously thought. But it still begs the question of why immigrants should be distinct in this area from native borns in any way.”

...

If the good news emerging from the research is that immigrants are up-by-the-bootstraps strivers who revitalize cities and reduce crime rates, then the sober side to this story is what happens to their descendants. Remember, Dinovitzer, Hagan, and Levi found that second generation immigrant youth engaged in more criminal behaviour than first generation youth did — about as much, in fact, as Canadians who were third generation and beyond.

Dinovitzer says this can be explained partly by the statistical phenomenon of regression toward the mean: “The longer you live in a group, the more likely you are to become like the group,” she says. Over time, people are exposed to new influences and values, and are given more opportunities to get into trouble. Of greater concern are behavioural changes that may stem from the frustration of second generation immigrants who don’t see their parents’ efforts paying off.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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More immigrants == more crime.

The timeline just needs to be adjusted.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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Your summary seems about right, except for the problem measuring a longer time span. After the first generation, they are no longer immigrants, so there isn't a way to measure them as a group anymore.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
More immigrants == more crime.

The timeline just needs to be adjusted.

Depends what kind. Every legal immigrant I've met was hard working and pretty tight with the law.
If you're one of the people who jumped the border and can't legally work.... then yeah that's different and that needs to be stopped.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
More immigrants == more crime.

The timeline just needs to be adjusted.

Nowhere in the article did it say that second- or subsequent-generation immigrants had HIGHER crime rates than the long-term population. It just said that they had a higher crime rate than first-generation immigrants. The conclusion of the article was that a community with ongoing immigration was protected from crime compared with communities without ongoing immigration.

I'm sure your right-wing reptile brain just can't deal with the cognitive dissonance of the benefits of immigration, and that's causing your eyes to play tricks on you.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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I was thinking more guns = less crime. Or how about Fox news = less crime. Or the invention of peanut butter Custard = less crime.

You think they would pay me for those studies or they don't match up with story trying to tell? In sum correlation does not imply causation.
 
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Nov 30, 2006
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Hmmmm...and all this time I thought legalized abortion was the reason for the sharp drop in crime rates during the 90's. Who'd have thought it was really illegal immigration? OMG...the cognitive dissonance is overwhelming my reptilian brain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect

"Donohue and Levitt point to the fact that males aged 18 to 24 are most likely to commit crimes. Data indicates that crime in the United States started to decline in 1992. Donohue and Levitt suggest that the absence of unwanted aborted children, following legalization in 1973, led to a reduction in crime 18 years later, starting in 1992 and dropping sharply in 1995. These would have been the peak crime-committing years of the unborn children.

The authors argue that states that had abortion legalized earlier and more widespread should have the earliest reductions in crime. Donohue and Levitt's study indicates that this indeed has happened: Alaska, California, Hawaii, New York, and Washington experienced steeper drops in crime, and had legalized abortion before Roe v. Wade. Further, states with a high abortion rate have experienced a greater reduction in crime, when corrected for factors like average income.[3] Finally, studies in Canada and Australia purport to have established a correlation between legalized abortion and overall crime reduction."
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
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Hmmmm...and all this time I thought legalized abortion was the reason for the sharp drop in crime rates during the 90's. Who'd have thought it was really illegal immigration? OMG...the cognitive dissonance is overwhelming my reptilian brain.

Nobody has conclusively proven anything as the cause of the decrease in crime - the Freakonomics theory is simply the most watercooler worthy theory out there. Also, nobody has claimed that illegal immigration is decreasing crime - these studies are about immigration of the legal kind.

The article does briefly touch upon the Freakonomics theory in a portion I did not repaste. It appears that the researcher interviewed for the article is at least aware of the abortion theory.

Before the question of immigration was taken up by researchers, a number of theories had been considered to explain the decline in crime rates in the US and Canada. Maybe it&#8217;s due to the aging population. Or it could be the result of a shift in the drug market, a levelling-out of violence after the devastation that followed the crack epidemic of the 1980s.

One of the weirder suggestions, popularized by Freakonomics authors Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner, is that access to abortion has reduced the birth of unwanted children, who presumably would have had criminal tendencies. Ronit Dinovitzer&#8217;s response to this is an eye roll so pronounced it&#8217;s nearly audible.

You can&#8217;t blame her. The root cause of decreasing crime, the reason immigration makes neighbourhoods safer, seems so obvious when you hear it. It goes beyond such phenomena as &#8220;eyes on the street,&#8221; the &#8220;spillover effect,&#8221; and community revitalization; these factors speak only to the context of immigrants&#8217; lives. There must be something else at work, some intrinsic motivation that drives individual immigrants to commit fewer crimes. Dinovitzer, Hagan, and Levi&#8217;s study was uniquely positioned to determine what that might be.

In addition to finding out whether their teenage respondents were getting into trouble, the researchers also asked them about their values, habits, and temperaments. Do you talk to your mother about your feelings? Do you finish your homework? Do you like to take chances? What ultimately set the first generation kids apart were three important protective factors against delinquency: strong family bonds, commitment to education, and aversion to risk. What&#8217;s more, these three qualities acted in a kind of feedback loop: the kids who regularly did their homework were also the kids who admired and confided in their parents, and were also the kids who shied away from troublemaking behaviour.

Dinovitzer stresses that these qualities would deter any young person from engaging in crime, whatever their ethnicity or immigration status. It&#8217;s just that first generation immigrants &#8212; again, across ethnic lines &#8212; tend to possess these traits to a greater extent than their peers do.

And that makes sense: the traits required for a person to leave behind all that&#8217;s familiar and take a chance on making it in a new country &#8212; ambition, resilience, perseverance, imagination, optimism &#8212; are conducive to the rearing of successful children; those children, in turn, naturally feel an obligation to their self-sacrificing parents. &#8220;The kids said they didn&#8217;t want to let their parents down,&#8221; Levi says. &#8220;Their parents had suffered to get here, so they owed it to them to succeed.&#8221;
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Nobody has conclusively proven anything as the cause of the decrease in crime - the Freakonomics theory is simply the most watercooler worthy theory out there. Also, nobody has claimed that illegal immigration is decreasing crime - these studies are about immigration of the legal kind.

The article does briefly touch upon the Freakonomics theory in a portion I did not repaste. It appears that the researcher interviewed for the article is at least aware of the abortion theory.
And therein lies the rub...some of our "intellectuals" here obviously "think" otherwise.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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So I guess breaking the law by entering a country illegally isn't considered a crime anymore??
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Society is getting way less violent since the beginning of when it was tracked and basically forever. Everyone with a cause has tried to attribute their cause to it.

http://vimeo.com/10325111

Obviously all good news but charlatans can hit the road AFAIAC. That includes keep the immigrants in/out crowd because rest assured less violent crime will result no matter what you do.
 
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Ape

Golden Member
Jul 29, 2000
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More immigrants == more crime.

The timeline just needs to be adjusted.

???

Maybe you need to post something to back that up because that sounds a little crazy, well unless you are confusing legal immigrants with illegal immigrants.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
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So I guess breaking the law by entering a country illegally isn't considered a crime anymore??

Is your xenophobia so virulent that you can't allow yourself to comprehend that the story is about LEGAL immigration?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,426
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More immigrants = less crime

In the United States it is somewhat different. Our immigrants are, by the 10s of millions, both impoverished and illegal. They are alienated and retain their foreign and separated identity that does not melt into their new home.

They are an underclass with great poverty and poverty alone lends itself to crime. Your quoted subject is irreconcilable with realities down here, though I do suspect Canada has both different immigrants and different policy.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,426
7,485
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Is your xenophobia so virulent that you can't allow yourself to comprehend that the story is about LEGAL immigration?

Legal immigrants having less crime is just obvious. They were rich enough to come here, patient enough to wait in line. It speaks well to their position in society. They aren't impoverished peasants who couldn't even read or write their own language.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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In the United States it is somewhat different. Our immigrants are, by the 10s of millions, both impoverished and illegal. They are alienated and retain their foreign and separated identity that does not melt into their new home.

They are an underclass with great poverty and poverty alone lends itself to crime. Your quoted subject is irreconcilable with realities down here, though I do suspect Canada has both different immigrants and different policy.

Nothing you wrote is particularly unique to the US. First generation immigrants the world over do not assimilate into their new country particularly well, and most of them tend to be poor. Their children, and their children's children assimilate into society just fine. Not only is that the case in the whole world today, it has been the case in the US for most of its history. There are many aspects that lend themselves to crime, poverty being one of them. This study is saying that they have identified others as well, in this case ones that may lead to a reduction in crime.

I've spent my entire adult life in areas with some of the greatest proportions of immigrants in the entire US. What a lot of people on here seem to think about US immigration doesn't square with any reality I have read about, or any reality that I have personally experienced.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
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Did you notice how the article started with people blaming illegal immigrants for crime, then "debunked" that belief with studies about LEGAL immigrants from India, Trinidad, and China?

I'm a legal immigrant from Trinidad, and the criminals at my middle school (yes they were already criminals) were illegal Mexicans and black kids from the ghetto.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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The article points out that crime rates have been in decline for a while, that immigration has been on the rise and then suggests there is a connection. But there is nothing to suggest a correlation and just a lot of anecdotes about nice immigrant families. Hopefully everyone realizes correlation does not equal causation.

Anyway, most people in the US and Canada are fine with limited legal immigration. The more contentious issue is the effect of illegals and what to do about them.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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an illegal immigrant who can flee to Mexico in the event of a felony... will likely be more apt to commit said felony. the legal immigrant with ties to the home country and lax extradition laws may also be apt to commit a felony knowing they can get out of dodge in a hurry. The child of an immigrant has less ties to their home country, is a U.S. citizen, has a social security number, and generally be harder to evade conviction. They would least likely to commit a serious felony of the different groups were are discussing.

But really this is impossible to quantify. There are so many factors... economic status, surroundings and influences etc. Who is to say an illegal immigrant is really more prone to commit crime (beyond the illegal border crossing or overstaying a visa) than a U.S. citizen who was born and raised in the hood.