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More good news from GM, Ford

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Link

These moribund dinosaurs continue to hemorrhage from all orifices. The sooner they die, the sooner we can stop lying to ourselves. I still cannot believe they suckered the gov into a $25B bailout (a loan is a bailout when the terms are ridiculous and the company ends up folding before it can pay the money back anyway).

Is there really any brightness in these company's futures? Do you know that Ford is now down to 7% of its high value some years ago? It's under $3, approaching penny stock status where it will be traded by overcaffeinated day traders and relegated to pure gambling, a fate it deserves for sucking so much for so many years.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The sooner they die, the sooner we can stop lying to ourselves
I'm curious what are "we" lying to our selves about?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The sooner they die, the sooner we can stop lying to ourselves
I'm curious what are "we" lying to our selves about?
The fact that these companies are in any other state than terminally ill in the intensive care unit requiring constant attention and medication.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,060
865
126
Get a grip. They'll survive. GM and Ford have worldwide markets. While it may take some time for them to become profitable again, in time they'll pull though. They are not new to the rodeo and have faced similar declines in business before.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,505
2
81
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The sooner they die, the sooner we can stop lying to ourselves
I'm curious what are "we" lying to our selves about?
we = Americans.

How often do you hear people talking about how we are about to lose our position as one of the leading car manufacturing nations in the world? That's whats about to happen. GM and F have made some bad decisions but I blame the prior unions and management for these problems. Those guys negotiated unaffordable "fringe" benefits for the unions that they knew would be a big burden on the companies in the future but they didn't care because they knew that they would be retired by the time the check came due. Also, focusing on big vehicles so much was a mistake.


 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link

These moribund dinosaurs continue to hemorrhage from all orifices. The sooner they die, the sooner we can stop lying to ourselves. I still cannot believe they suckered the gov into a $25B bailout (a loan is a bailout when the terms are ridiculous and the company ends up folding before it can pay the money back anyway).

Is there really any brightness in these company's futures? Do you know that Ford is now down to 7% of its high value some years ago? It's under $3, approaching penny stock status where it will be traded by overcaffeinated day traders and relegated to pure gambling, a fate it deserves for sucking so much for so many years.

Unlike you I hope that they both come out of this leaner, meaner and stronger.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
141
106
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link

These moribund dinosaurs continue to hemorrhage from all orifices. The sooner they die, the sooner we can stop lying to ourselves. I still cannot believe they suckered the gov into a $25B bailout (a loan is a bailout when the terms are ridiculous and the company ends up folding before it can pay the money back anyway).

Is there really any brightness in these company's futures? Do you know that Ford is now down to 7% of its high value some years ago? It's under $3, approaching penny stock status where it will be traded by overcaffeinated day traders and relegated to pure gambling, a fate it deserves for sucking so much for so many years.

Unlike you I hope that they both come out of this leaner, meaner and stronger.
As do I. It would be nice to be able to buy a domestic car that is affordable, fuel efficient, reliable, and has good resale value.

 

TechAZ

Golden Member
Sep 8, 2007
1,188
0
71
Yeah, the sooner thousands more get laid off and unemployed the better! The less competition the better!

/sarcasm
 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,853
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
I disagree, their survival is competition. Well, hopeful competition if they can pull out of this and keep making better stuff. It's not total crap now, they just have to fix their image.

Can they do it? No clue, I'm not too hopeful. And not that bailing them out was a right move.. if they fail, they fail. But there is a reason to have them around.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,060
865
126
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
Any other anti-American sentiments you'd like to share with us? Some of you guys make me sick. Let's give all our support and money to Japan, China and Korea. Yep, that's what will make America strong again. :roll:

American automakers are responsible for payroll to millions of Americans and billions in tax revenues. Everything around you is connected in some way to the American automobile industry, yet some of you are too eager to see our American companies die.

 

TechAZ

Golden Member
Sep 8, 2007
1,188
0
71
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
And Microsoft puts out the superior product. The sooner Apple dies off the better.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
Yeah WTF mate. I tend to prefer Japanese cars for their solid reliability but it's not like I wish death on American companies just because I prefer someone else's product. GM and Ford have improved a ton in recent years and they deserve to be given a chance to bounce back. They're finally getting the hint and if they almost die then maybe it'll be a wake-up call for them.

Also, they might not be in as much trouble as the American companies, but Japanese carmakers took a huge hit a couple days ago when the Japanese stock indexes fell almost 10%.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Yeah WTF mate. I tend to prefer Japanese cars for their solid reliability but it's not like I wish death on American companies just because I prefer someone else's product. GM and Ford have improved a ton in recent years and they deserve to be given a chance to bounce back. They're finally getting the hint and if they almost die then maybe it'll be a wake-up call for them.

Also, they might not be in as much trouble as the American companies, but Japanese carmakers took a huge hit a couple days ago when the Japanese stock indexes fell almost 10%.
I see them and as symbolic of a problem that people need to stop denying themselves about.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
61,320
5,159
126
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
If those companies no longer have competition and are forced to fill the volume void of Ford and GM it will wreck absolute hell on their build quality. There's no competition to build better stuff and there is more stuff to build so more room for mistakes.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
Any other anti-American sentiments you'd like to share with us? Some of you guys make me sick. Let's give all our support and money to Japan, China and Korea. Yep, that's what will make America strong again. :roll:

American automakers are responsible for payroll to millions of Americans and billions in tax revenues. Everything around you is connected in some way to the American automobile industry, yet some of you are too eager to see our American companies die.
QFT - the "auto industry" is WAY bigger than just GM and FORD themselves. It also includes all the parts companies, ect. that support the companies. The effect on the economy would be staggering if both companies were allowed to fail.

I DO AGREE however than the unions need to be addressed so we can make the companies more competitive.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Originally posted by: TechAZ
Yeah, the sooner thousands more get laid off and unemployed the better! The less competition the better!

/sarcasm
You're talking hundreds of thousands out of work from company employees to all of the suppliers to the companies.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
141
106
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
Any other anti-American sentiments you'd like to share with us? Some of you guys make me sick. Let's give all our support and money to Japan, China and Korea. Yep, that's what will make America strong again. :roll:

American automakers are responsible for payroll to millions of Americans and billions in tax revenues. Everything around you is connected in some way to the American automobile industry, yet some of you are too eager to see our American companies die.
I'm anti-American now? No, I'm sick of seeing overbloated companies that put out a sht product staying afloat. This isn't the 1950's anymore when they were top dogs and had no competition. Yet they are paying their employees like that is the case, as well as retirees. They just can't compete anymore, put the old horse out to rest is what I say. They've been given multiple opportunities to try again (how many times have they come back from bankruptcy?) and failed. What's the point of preserving jobs to companies who can't compete? Do we just keep giving them billions and continue to label them as the little engines who could?

Globalization killed the steel industry, and this the is next progressive step. It has nothing to do with patriotism, but not saddling the taxpayers with anymore ridiculous bailouts. Besides, we gave Japan the greenlight to surpass us when we agreed to take them under our wing after WWII. We're the reason they put out such a superior product, so you should be proud of your country in that respect.

 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
The situation is serious, but ALL auto makers are down substantially so no need to be so melodramatically negative about US auto makers.

Gas prices only became so high about 18 -24 months ago; it takes longer than that to retool etc. They'll catch up.

BTW: Most of the Japanese auto's many want to laud are actually made here by American workers etc. If they can be used to make decent cars for Toyota, they can be used to make decent cars for Ford etc.

I've got confidence in our engineers, our management - not so much.

Fern
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,183
610
126
Originally posted by: TechAZ
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
And Microsoft puts out the superior product. The sooner Apple dies off the better.
Lulz.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,381
94
86
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The sooner they die, the sooner we can stop lying to ourselves
I'm curious what are "we" lying to our selves about?
we = Americans.

How often do you hear people talking about how we are about to lose our position as one of the leading car manufacturing nations in the world? That's whats about to happen. GM and F have made some bad decisions but I blame the prior unions and management for these problems. Those guys negotiated unaffordable "fringe" benefits for the unions that they knew would be a big burden on the companies in the future but they didn't care because they knew that they would be retired by the time the check came due. Also, focusing on big vehicles so much was a mistake.
Sounds like SS and medicare.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
There is no reason for them to survive. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan make better cars AND trucks now. Their death knell has sounded, and they shouldn't have been approved for that bailout loan since they'll never be able to pay it back.
Well you see the problem there is that GM and Ford both make way better cars than they used to. Their midsized offering have finally caught up with the imports, they get way better mileage than what you people give them credit for. Despite a bunch of tools here saying that nobody wants to buy their products they're still currently outselling Toyota. Oh and BTW, no f'ing way in hell the Japanese make better trucks than the domestics, dream on. Their problem here now is turning a profit, that's it.

 

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