More crapping on Green New Deal

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Cant tell if serious … but no, he is not a right winger lol

That's what they all say.

 

[pauldun170]

Op gave everyone a heads up that the article sucked. The thread seemed to be about why the article was shitty.
Not sure what puppy he kicked in other threads to justify the personal stuff.

 

[woolfe9998]

Exactly! For 30 plus years I have been hearing limitless fusion energy will be here soon.
I firmly believe I will see fusion power during my lifetime. I also want to be realistic about these claims and build times and evaluation to ensure safety or proper building.

Yes, and if you look further into the SPARC project, you'll notice something the author of your linked article did not mention. 2025 is the first test reactor. First full scale reactor is set for "early 2030's." After that, how much time to build out all the reactors we would need to replace all fossil fuels for electrical generation? Which includes regulatory approvals by country, etc. Probably 20+ more years. So even if successful, it's on a similar timeline as ITER. Fusion power could replace fossil fuels by the 2050's, if the most optimistic projections prove accurate. In other words, too late to solve the impending crisis.

Fusion gets closer with successful test of new kind of magnet at MIT start-up backed by Bill Gates

If fusion can be achieved on earth and commercialized, it will provide a nearly unlimited source of clean energy without producing the waste of nuclear fission.

www.cnbc.com

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes, and if you look further into the SPARC project, you'll notice something the author of your linked article did not mention. 2025 is the first test reactor. First full scale reactor is set for "early 2030's." After that, how much time to build out all the reactors we would need to replace all fossil fuels for electrical generation? Which includes regulatory approvals by country, etc. Probably 20+ more years. So even if successful, it's on a similar timeline as ITER. Fusion power could replace fossil fuels by the 2050's, if the most optimistic projections prove accurate. In other words, too late to solve the impending crisis.

Fusion gets closer with successful test of new kind of magnet at MIT start-up backed by Bill Gates

If fusion can be achieved on earth and commercialized, it will provide a nearly unlimited source of clean energy without producing the waste of nuclear fission.

www.cnbc.com

That's assuming no regulatory hurdles, no financial hurdles with replacing existing tech, no legal hurdles introduced by fossil fuels, etc. It'd be 2100's at the earliest for a realistic replacement of fossil fuel energy production, and that's assuming we actually have a working test reactor in 2025. Our timelines to do something about fossil fuels are shorter than that. Much shorter.

 

[woolfe9998]

That's assuming no regulatory hurdles, no financial hurdles with replacing existing tech, no legal hurdles introduced by fossil fuels, etc. It'd be 2100's at the earliest for a realistic replacement of fossil fuel energy production, and that's assuming we actually have a working test reactor in 2025. Our timelines to do something about fossil fuels are shorter than that. Much shorter.

Yes, I did mention the regulatory hurdles and that this was an optimistic projection.

Solar and wind are mature technologies at this point. There is no getting around the fact that we must build them out quickly, and not concern ourselves about technologies which do not exist yet.

 

[woolfe9998]

deleted

 

[ivwshane]

He has taken a disliking to me recently.
I do enjoy his posts.
May have had to do with me being rough on the bernie bros last year. I think I remember some bro-ness to him during the election. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

It doesn’t matter, no one here should be here to make friends (it’s rather sad if that’s the case), we should call out trolls when we encounter them and question posts to either see the source of their claims or to debunk them. I don’t see you as a shit poster so I don’t know what he has against you.

 

[Moonbeam]

To recap the Green new deal
(1) it is the duty of the Federal Government to create a
Green New Deal--
(A) to achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions
through a fair and just transition for all communities
and workers;
(B) to create millions of good, high-wage jobs and
ensure prosperity and economic security for all people
of the United States;
(C) to invest in the infrastructure and industry of
the United States to sustainably meet the challenges of
the 21st century;
(D) to secure for all people of the United States
for generations to come--
(i) clean air and water;
(ii) climate and community resiliency;
(iii) healthy food;
(iv) access to nature; and
(v) a sustainable environment; and
(E) to promote justice and equity by stopping
current, preventing future, and repairing historic
oppression of indigenous peoples, communities of color,
migrant communities, deindustrialized communities,
depopulated rural communities, the poor, low-income
workers, women, the elderly, the unhoused, people with
disabilities, and youth (referred to in this resolution
as ``frontline and vulnerable communities'');
(2) the goals described in subparagraphs (A) through (E) of
paragraph (1) (referred to in this resolution as the ``Green
New Deal goals'') should be accomplished through a 10-year
national mobilization (referred to in this resolution as the
``Green New Deal mobilization'') that will require the
following goals and projects--
(A) building resiliency against climate change-
related disasters, such as extreme weather, including
by leveraging funding and providing investments for
community-defined projects and strategies;
(B) repairing and upgrading the infrastructure in
the United States, including--
(i) by eliminating pollution and greenhouse
gas emissions as much as technologically
feasible;
(ii) by guaranteeing universal access to
clean water;
(iii) by reducing the risks posed by
climate impacts; and
(iv) by ensuring that any infrastructure
bill considered by Congress addresses climate
change;
(C) meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the
United States through clean, renewable, and zero-
emission energy sources, including--
(i) by dramatically expanding and upgrading
renewable power sources; and
(ii) by deploying new capacity;
(D) building or upgrading to energy-efficient,
distributed, and ``smart'' power grids, and ensuring
affordable access to electricity;
(E) upgrading all existing buildings in the United
States and building new buildings to achieve maximum
energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety,
affordability, comfort, and durability, including
through electrification;
(F) spurring massive growth in clean manufacturing
in the United States and removing pollution and
greenhouse gas emissions from manufacturing and
industry as much as is technologically feasible,
including by expanding renewable energy manufacturing
and investing in existing manufacturing and industry;
(G) working collaboratively with farmers and
ranchers in the United States to remove pollution and
greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector
as much as is technologically feasible, including--
(i) by supporting family farming;
(ii) by investing in sustainable farming
and land use practices that increase soil
health; and
(iii) by building a more sustainable food
system that ensures universal access to healthy
food;
(H) overhauling transportation systems in the
United States to remove pollution and greenhouse gas
emissions from the transportation sector as much as is
technologically feasible, including through investment
in--
(i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure
and manufacturing;
(ii) clean, affordable, and accessible
public transit; and
(iii) high-speed rail;
(I) mitigating and managing the long-term adverse
health, economic, and other effects of pollution and
climate change, including by providing funding for
community-defined projects and strategies;
(J) removing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere
and reducing pollution by restoring natural ecosystems
through proven low-tech solutions that increase soil
carbon storage, such as land preservation and
afforestation;
(K) restoring and protecting threatened,
endangered, and fragile ecosystems through locally
appropriate and science-based projects that enhance
biodiversity and support climate resiliency;
(L) cleaning up existing hazardous waste and
abandoned sites, ensuring economic development and
sustainability on those sites;
(M) identifying other emission and pollution
sources and creating solutions to remove them; and
(N) promoting the international exchange of
technology, expertise, products, funding, and services,
with the aim of making the United States the
international leader on climate action, and to help
other countries achieve a Green New Deal;
(3) a Green New Deal must be developed through transparent
and inclusive consultation, collaboration, and partnership with
frontline and vulnerable communities, labor unions, worker
cooperatives, civil society groups, academia, and businesses;
and
(4) to achieve the Green New Deal goals and mobilization, a
Green New Deal will require the following goals and projects--
(A) providing and leveraging, in a way that ensures
that the public receives appropriate ownership stakes
and returns on investment, adequate capital (including
through community grants, public banks, and other
public financing), technical expertise, supporting
policies, and other forms of assistance to communities,
organizations, Federal, State, and local government
agencies, and businesses working on the Green New Deal
mobilization;
(B) ensuring that the Federal Government takes into
account the complete environmental and social costs and
impacts of emissions through--
(i) existing laws;
(ii) new policies and programs; and
(iii) ensuring that frontline and
vulnerable communities shall not be adversely
affected;
(C) providing resources, training, and high-quality
education, including higher education, to all people of
the United States, with a focus on frontline and
vulnerable communities, so that all people of the
United States may be full and equal participants in the
Green New Deal mobilization;
(D) making public investments in the research and
development of new clean and renewable energy
technologies and industries;
(E) directing investments to spur economic
development, deepen and diversify industry and business
in local and regional economies, and build wealth and
community ownership, while prioritizing high-quality
job creation and economic, social, and environmental
benefits in frontline and vulnerable communities, and
deindustrialized communities, that may otherwise
struggle with the transition away from greenhouse gas
intensive industries;
(F) ensuring the use of democratic and
participatory processes that are inclusive of and led
by frontline and vulnerable communities and workers to
plan, implement, and administer the Green New Deal
mobilization at the local level;
(G) ensuring that the Green New Deal mobilization
creates high-quality union jobs that pay prevailing
wages, hires local workers, offers training and
advancement opportunities, and guarantees wage and
benefit parity for workers affected by the transition;
(H) guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining
wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid
vacations, and retirement security to all people of the
United States;
(I) strengthening and protecting the right of all
workers to organize, unionize, and collectively bargain
free of coercion, intimidation, and harassment;
(J) strengthening and enforcing labor, workplace
health and safety, antidiscrimination, and wage and
hour standards across all employers, industries, and
sectors;
(K) enacting and enforcing trade rules, procurement
standards, and border adjustments with strong labor and
environmental protections--
(i) to stop the transfer of jobs and
pollution overseas; and
(ii) to grow domestic manufacturing in the
United States;
(L) ensuring that public lands, waters, and oceans
are protected and that eminent domain is not abused;
(M) obtaining the free, prior, and informed consent
of indigenous peoples for all decisions that affect
indigenous peoples and their traditional territories,
honoring all treaties and agreements with indigenous
peoples, and protecting and enforcing the sovereignty
and land rights of indigenous peoples;
(N) ensuring a commercial environment where every
businessperson is free from unfair competition and
domination by domestic or international monopolies; and
(O) providing all people of the United States
with--
(i) high-quality health care;
(ii) affordable, safe, and adequate
housing;
(iii) economic security; and
(iv) clean water, clean air, healthy and
affordable food, and access to nature.
<all>


The writer of the article opines that this
"Massachusetts Institute of Technology, in partnership with a company called Commonwealth Fusion Systems, has tested a magnet" makes the Green new deal pointless and uses the article to make opinionated statements about "Things" while boogey-manning Bernie Sanders.

That article was absolute shit. It came across as something whose target demographic is your uncle who worked as an engineer is close to retirement. He's spent the past 15 years complaining about "Indians" and outsourcing and challenges everyone that any change is stupid and he doesn't know why they teach "New math" and just do it the old way....
Now he just listens to conservatives talk radio and his son, your cousin keeps telling you about this guy "Ben Shapiro....have you ever heard of him? He really makes you think!!!"

Hahahahaha! But you see, your uncle Moonbeam doesn't give a fig about the truth. All I wanted to hear was there's a reason not to go with the New Green Deal. Just another liberal pipe dream and waste of money like everything else. That article is all the proof I need. I want to thank whatever organization paid the author to write it.

The last thing on earth I'm going to do is die feeling guilty about getting mine before we go extinct.

I also read that centrists Democrats are making a welcome comeback. Can't have the most powerful economic power on earth evolving. Costs a lot of money to get elected and stay there. I'm sure you were all taught how to play ball.

 

[balloonshark]

You know we're fucked when we have a handful of billionaires who have their own space programs. They'll have the ability to live on a space station or pillage Earth 2.0 while the rest of us are stuck here because we can't afford the entry fee. I suspect those formerly known as republicans will be thumping their chest and chanting "USA! USA! USA!" as the wealthy and well connected leave their ignorant asses behind.

 

[woolfe9998]

It doesn’t matter, no one here should be here to make friends (it’s rather sad if that’s the case), we should call out trolls when we encounter them and question posts to either see the source of their claims or to debunk them. I don’t see you as a shit poster so I don’t know what he has against you.

There is no point in trying to rationalize the behavior of that particular poster and no point in anyone concerning themselves over his opinion of them. All he does around here is spit bile at whoever he disagrees on pretty much anything.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You know we're fucked when we have a handful of billionaires have their own space programs. They'll have the ability to live on a space station or pillage Earth 2.0 while the rest of us are stuck here because we can't afford the entry fee. I suspect those formerly known as republicans will be thumping their chest and chanting "USA! USA! USA!" as the wealthy and well connected leave their ignorant asses behind.

There are several pen & paper rpgs that have this exact setting.

 

[woolfe9998]

There are several pen & paper rpgs that have this exact setting.

Also the exact plot of the movie "Elysium."

 

[Stokely]

The rich probably won't make it to space before the world really turns nasty but they'll set up private compounds guarded by hired armies, and buy up islands. This is already happening in some places (India for one). Wealth continues to concentrate at the top, while the rubes fight for the rights of the rich, who have successfully painted illegals and trannies as the real reasons for their woes.


Even without ecological disaster we are heading to a bad place. With it, it's literally going to look like a sci-fi movie, pick the one of choice depending on degree of badness (The Road probably being the pinnacle of where you don't want to reach.)

 

[blackangst1]

Fortunately the "Green New Deal" isnt really a thing.

 

[vi edit]

The rich probably won't make it to space before the world really turns nasty but they'll set up private compounds guarded by hired armies, and buy up islands. This is already happening in some places (India for one). Wealth continues to concentrate at the top, while the rubes fight for the rights of the rich, who have successfully painted illegals and trannies as the real reasons for their woes.


Even without ecological disaster we are heading to a bad place. With it, it's literally going to look like a sci-fi movie, pick the one of choice depending on degree of badness (The Road probably being the pinnacle of where you don't want to reach.)

I'm thinking one part Elves noping the fuck out in Lord of the Rings and sailing off to...wherever mixed with some sort of riff on Altered Carbon and Meths where the rich literally lord from above and the rest fight over varying levels of urban slumming.

 

[Homerboy]

Well a poorly written political op-Ed type article pretending to be a pop-sci article. What could go wrong??

Millions of right leaning idiots read it and entrench themselves deeper? That... that is what could (and will) go wrong.

 

[nakedfrog]

Fortunately the "Green New Deal" isnt really a thing.

Glad you've had time to calm your titties over it.

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forums.anandtech.com

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Upon thinking about the topic, wouldn’t having some kind of carbon tax accelerate fusion development?
Why would a power company be happy paying a carbon tax when money could be spent on a clean fusion solution that would presumably evade the carbon tax. The Authors opinion seems flawed why would adding a carbon tax delay fusion? Why would a company avoiding a tax targeted at polluters by not polluting anger Bernie or AOC or any lib?
Goal isn’t to tax, the goal is to clean up emissions.

 

[Ajay]

Millions of right leaning idiots read it and entrench themselves deeper? That... that is what could (and will) go wrong.

I meant, how could such an article not become crap by default. Also, isn't the reading level a bit high for the MAGA crowd